Rip off Ireland dead?

g32

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Ehh, the minimum wage has to be adhered to countrywide in case you didn't know? Also premiums for unsociable working hours/Sunday etc.

We have the highest minimum wage in the EU except for Luxembourg so maybe if everyone was prepared to take a wage cut then overheads might be lowered and your pint might be something in the region of €3.50.

You can't have it every which way.

BS. You guys would keep fleecing us regardless. Vat was cut and you didn't pass it onto us.

g32

91011 wrote: »

Obviously you have no idea of cost prices & overheads. I don't know of many pubs that are making any sort of profit whatsoever.

Th cost price of a pint of guinness is currenty €1.56 + vat for most pubs. The retail price is €3.75 for most pubs (€3.09 + vat)

Now add up the following

Opening hours from 4pm to midnight, 7 days a week.
Heating costs
Lighting costs
Water charges (in the thousands for any sort of pub)
Rent
Commercial rates
Staff. (pub staff rates ARE almost twice the UK rates)

Apply that to a standard everyday town / village pub and check how many customers they have on monday / tues / wed & thur?

Add also to the fact that hundreds of pubs have closed over the past couple of years (if the business was as profitable as you claim, surely there would be hundreds opening not closing???)

You would NEVER lower your prices and you deserve to suffer. Most Pubs follow the others like sheep when it comes to prices, without actually competing. Give as many excuses as you like but you won't get any customers unless you lower your prices.

borderlinemeath

g32 wrote: »

BS. You guys would keep fleecing us regardless. Vat was cut and you didn't pass it onto us.

So you assume I'm a publican now?

It's simple economics that the higher wages we now enjoy are only because of the high inflation suffered as part of the celtic tiger.

Do you even know what the minimum wage is in the UK? Or even further afield?

I could'nt care less how much a pint was, I'm not much of a drinker but I do care when jobs are being lost due to lack of trade because of ignorance of the current trading conditions.

91011

g32 wrote: »

BS. You guys would keep fleecing us regardless. Vat was cut and you didn't pass it onto us.

I must be a publican too - If you can find my pub, I'll let you drink in it free for life!

No, I have a wee bit of knowledge about business, the costs of running a business and the cost of products both in Ireland and also in UK, France & Northeastern USA.

All things told, based on after tax earnings, and taking into account retail & services prices in Ireland, we are better off here than in those countries.

It should be noted that it is dreadfully easy to open a shop and or a pub in Ireland - you should try it if you think there's so much money in it. But you'll find your eyes will open wide at the cost factors involved, even before you've taken a couple of quid for yourself.

g32

I also know a Bar owner who lowered her prices (permanently, I should add) and it actually stimulated business because the Bar transpired to become the cheapest one in the town.

The other cry babies started making up a million different excuses and they didn't win. They actually lost customers, deservedly. Now guess what - they too lowered their prices because they knew nobody was going to pay crazy charges for a drink.

Unless of course you guys want to close, good luck trying to find customers. The current going rate is a MAXIMUM of EUR4.00 a pint.

borderlinemeath

g32 wrote: »

Unless of course you guys want to close, good luck trying to find customers. The current going rate is a MAXIMUM of EUR4.00 a pint.

Seriously, did you not read the replies??

We're not publicans!!!!

Maybe you're drunk on cheap beer:D

g32

91011 wrote: »

I must be a publican too - If you can find my pub, I'll let you drink in it free for life!

No, I have a wee bit of knowledge about business, the costs of running a business and the cost of products both in Ireland and also in UK, France & Northeastern USA.

All things told, based on after tax earnings, and taking into account retail & services prices in Ireland, we are better off here than in those countries.

It should be noted that it is dreadfully easy to open a shop and or a pub in Ireland - you should try it if you think there's so much money in it. But you'll find your eyes will open wide at the cost factors involved, even before you've taken a couple of quid for yourself.

I think you're saying that to suit your own agenda and trying to evoke sympathy for your own purpose.

A shop outlet like Lidl finds it easy to open because they offer lower prices. Strange enough they pay similar charges like you do and yet they can win more customers. Whats 'dreadful' about opening a shop/pub, you don't like competition? Furthermore, I don't care where your pub is located.

Fighting Irish

g32 wrote: »

BS. You guys would keep fleecing us regardless. Vat was cut and you didn't pass it onto us.

:rolleyes:

Skopzz

91011 wrote: »

I must be a publican too - If you can find my pub, I'll let you drink in it free for life!

No, I have a wee bit of knowledge about business, the costs of running a business and the cost of products both in Ireland and also in UK, France & Northeastern USA.

All things told, based on after tax earnings, and taking into account retail & services prices in Ireland, we are better off here than in those countries.

It should be noted that it is dreadfully easy to open a shop and or a pub in Ireland - you should try it if you think there's so much money in it. But you'll find your eyes will open wide at the cost factors involved, even before you've taken a couple of quid for yourself.

The cost factors are not what many publicans make them out to be. How is it that low priced Bars are able to continue a thriving business? No publican seems able to answer that. I stopped going to Pubs in 2008 because of the extortionate prices for a pint. I doubt much has changed since then. Greed has ruined the Pub Trade.

Commercial rates have been lowered in a number of counties on top of the drop in VAT, drop in rents etc. Publicans are still foot dragging.

Skopzz

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Seriously, did you not read the replies??

We're not publicans!!!!

Maybe you're drunk on cheap beer:D

Maybe you're drunk on cheap beer?

borderlinemeath

Skopzz wrote: »

The cost factors are not what many publicans make them out to be. How is it that low priced Bars are able to continue a thriving business? No publican seems able to answer that. I stopped going to Pubs in 2008 because of the extortionate prices for a pint. I doubt much has changed since then. Greed has ruined the Pub Trade.

Commercial rates have been lowered in a number of counties on top of the drop in VAT, drop in rents etc. Publicans are still foot dragging.

If you are tied into a leasehold in any business - you have to wait for the term of the lease (usually reviewed 5yearly) to end to renegotiate rentals.

While some businesses play hardball with negotiations so can landlords. I know of one business that was withholding rent to negotiate a better deal go into his premises to find the locks changed.

If you are a new business - chances are you have negotiated a great deal with a landlord (sometimes up to a year rent free) so are able to have low prices while establishing a good business. Its when the regular rental payments come into force that times will get tough again.

allthedoyles

borderlinemeath wrote: »

In a Belfast main dealer? Or a breaker?
Identical branded part or spurious copy?
Was the garage in Wexford going to fit the part and include labour?

Was bought in the Main Dealer garage where car was originally as new . We got the details on the sticker on back window .( bought the car in Newry last year )

Was an identical branded part .

The main dealer garage in Wexford wanted an extra € 45 to fit and I got it fitted locally for same price .

Neither the garage in Belfast or my local mechanic could understand why their was sucha price difference .

btw , - If anyone needs a spare part for their car , it is so easy to google a main dealers in the North and purchase there .........

g32

borderlinemeath wrote: »

If you are tied into a leasehold in any business - you have to wait for the term of the lease (usually reviewed 5yearly) to end to renegotiate rentals.

While some businesses play hardball with negotiations so can landlords. I know of one business that was withholding rent to negotiate a better deal go into his premises to find the locks changed.

If you are a new business - chances are you have negotiated a great deal with a landlord (sometimes up to a year rent free) so are able to have low prices while establishing a good business. Its when the regular rental payments come into force that times will get tough again.

That is not the customers problem. Its not their fault which premises the retailer decided to rent. The retailer has to figure out a way to keep prices down otherwise they won't get customers.

No point in blaming others.

davo10

Ah the old rip off debate, same s**t different day. For all you people who look North, or west to US, east to Europe as an example of cheaper prices, remember you are paid more than workers in those countries doing the same jobs, you recieve higher benefits than they do. If you want lower prices then do your part, don't strike when your employer asks you to take a lower wage, don't crib when companies close because they cannot afford to stay open, don't reject deals like the Croke Park agreement, accept lower benefit payments etc, then the cost of living will come down.
See Irish people don't want to any accept any drop in income but want to be able to buy goods/services cheaper because they are cheaper in other countries. If you feel hard done by, go onto some of the wage comparison sites, see how much people are paid for doing your job in Bulgaria, Hungary, US and the North, see how much people in those countries recieve in benefits. (minimum wage US $7.25, minimum wage Ireland $10.81)
Even though the US is cheaper than here, americans travel to Mexico for cheap goods, this happens all over the World where economies exist side by side where one is cheaper than the other. My parents traveled to the North 30 years ago because it was cheaper, some of you will remember the nervousness as you came to the army checkpoints at the border and the cars were searched/goods impounded, so this is not a new phenomenon.

Goods cost different amounts in differrent markets, thats how the EU commonmarket is suppossed to work. Remember, a nation tried to alter the marketplace so that everyone got the same and everything cost the same, that ideology was called communism.

g32

davo10 wrote: »

Ah the old rip off debate, same s**t different day. For all you people who look North, or west to US, east to Europe as an example of cheaper prices, remember you are paid more than workers in those countries doing the same jobs, you recieve higher benefits than they do. If you want lower prices then do your part, don't strike when your employer asks you to take a lower wage, don't crib when companies close because they cannot afford to stay open, don't reject deals like the Croke Park agreement, accept lower benefit payments etc, then the cost of living will come down.
See Irish people don't want to any accept any drop in income but want to be able to buy goods/services cheaper because they are cheaper in other countries. If you feel hard done by, go onto some of the wage comparison sites, see how much people are paid for doing your job in Bulgaria, Hungary, US and the North, see how much people in those countries recieve in benefits. (minimum wage US $7.25, minimum wage Ireland $10.81)
Even though the US is cheaper than here, americans travel to Mexico for cheap goods, this happens all over the World where economies exist side by side where one is cheaper than the other. My parents traveled to the North 30 years ago because it was cheaper, some of you will remember the nervousness as you came to the army checkpoints at the border and the cars were searched/goods impounded, so this is not a new phenomenon.

Goods cost different amounts in differrent markets, thats how the EU commonmarket is suppossed to work. Remember, a nation tried to alter the marketplace so that everyone got the same and everything cost the same, that ideology was called communism.

Just about every worker took a pay cut. Maybe you didn't know that. However, many Irish retailers/publicans still believe they can charge outlandish prices and expect to get customers. Then they wonder why they go out of business. We're talking about a 30% difference in prices.

Rents have fallen, VAT has fallen, commercial rates have fallen..... Yet still looking for lame excuses to prevent a price drop.

davo10

If you don't want to pay that price for a pint/pair of jeans/car etc, don't buy them, you are free now to travel anywhere in the world thanks to cheap flights/boats etc. Workers in other countries are taking equivalent wage reductions so the disparity is still there. Try living on the wage of a Bulgarian doing the same job as you. The sterling differential has altered by 14% in the last 2 months, have goods in the North got 14% darer because of this or have the goods in the South got 14% cheaper, or could it be that due the exchange rate has just changed?.
I put it to you, if the exchange rate went down to the 64p/€1 that it was three years ago and the price of goods remained constant, what would you view be now that the costs of goods would be the same both sides of the border?, would you accuse the shops in the North of being rip offs even though they had not changed their prices?

g32

davo10 wrote: »

If you don't want to pay that price for a pint/pair of jeans/car etc, don't buy them, you are free now to travel anywhere in the world thanks to cheap flights/boats etc. Workers in other countries are taking equivalent wage reductions so the disparity is still there. Try living on the wage of a Bulgarian doing the same job as you.

Now you're becoming defensive because you are or know someone working in retail/equivalent.

No, consumers don't (and won't) pay those prices for a pint. Same issue for jeans, the internet is just about the cheapest place to buy them.

davo10

So if I have a different point of view to you I must be defensive, c'mon this is a forum for grown ups, stand by your beliefs and debate them.
You are right the internet is the cheapest way to buy stuff, possibly because there is no need for premises in a commercial location nor staff. Also the supplier can be located in a cheaper economic zone, all they have to do is post the item. That's a no brainer, your main point was the 30% price differential, I put it to you again that if the rate of exchange fell further so that items were similar price north and south, would you accuse the northern retailers of being ripoff merchants even though they have not changed their sterling prices?.

91011

- commercial rates have not fallen, they dropped by about 1% - 2% which when you have deflation of 5% gives an effective rise of 3%.

Also commercial rates in ireland are well over twice those in the uk - but in the uk people pay an average £2500 - £3000 in council tax per family.

Now the uk is planning to increase vat to 20% and add further duties to alcohol - maybe you will need to start re-checking your NI prices against those in the south using the CURRENT exchange rate of 1.22 and not a made up one.


And yes, i have an interest in retail and I know that the primary product I sell is currently CHEAPER in Ireland (ex vat) than in the USA where it is made!

Terrontress

One big thing which is available in NI but not south of the border is special offers in supermarkets. Buy one get one free. Half price offer. 3 for £10. That sort of offer is everywhere in a Sainsubrys but never to be seen in the Republic.

If you go in to Dunnes, there is a big sign promoting the fact that there are two extra biscuits in a packet.

I understand that you never get something for nothing but that feeling of getting a good deal is very much lacking in ROI.

ejmaztec

Terrontress wrote: »

One big thing which is available in NI but not south of the border is special offers in supermarkets. Buy one get one free. Half price offer. 3 for £10. That sort of offer is everywhere in a Sainsubrys but never to be seen in the Republic.

If you go in to Dunnes, there is a big sign promoting the fact that there are two extra biscuits in a packet.

I understand that you never get something for nothing but that feeling of getting a good deal is very much lacking in ROI.

I've seen these kinds of offers down here, in Dunnes, Tesco, and even in SuperValu, to name but three.

g32

91011 wrote: »

- commercial rates have not fallen, they dropped by about 1% - 2% which when you have deflation of 5% gives an effective rise of 3%.

Also commercial rates in ireland are well over twice those in the uk - but in the uk people pay an average £2500 - £3000 in council tax per family.

Now the uk is planning to increase vat to 20% and add further duties to alcohol - maybe you will need to start re-checking your NI prices against those in the south using the CURRENT exchange rate of 1.22 and not a made up one.


And yes, i have an interest in retail and I know that the primary product I sell is currently CHEAPER in Ireland (ex vat) than in the USA where it is made!

No it does not give a rise of 3% as it is part of deflation overall. It seems like some Irish retailers will argue anything to defend their high prices.

Even if the UK puts up the VAT further on alcohol, do consider the fact that most people have actually cut back, some given up alcohol completely. That means they are now buying less, some have already stopped. That's something you guys need to think about in the long term. Simply giving excuses like 'it costs more to operate here' is not good enough.

Asda always have offers that retailers here will never match. The fact that you believe alcohol prices on US products are cheaper in Rip-Off Ireland is neither here nor there. Publicans and off-licenses in Ireland ALWAYS exert upward pressure on prices.

g32

Terrontress wrote: »

One big thing which is available in NI but not south of the border is special offers in supermarkets. Buy one get one free. Half price offer. 3 for £10. That sort of offer is everywhere in a Sainsubrys but never to be seen in the Republic.

If you go in to Dunnes, there is a big sign promoting the fact that there are two extra biscuits in a packet.

I understand that you never get something for nothing but that feeling of getting a good deal is very much lacking in ROI.

That is correct. I have seen that in Asda also.

borderlinemeath

g32 wrote: »

That is correct. I have seen that in Asda also.

Asda is owned by Walmart - one of the biggest retailers in the world so has huge purchasing power.
Walmart has decimated the smaller retailer, producer and suppliers in the US due to their bully tactics and it will happen here as well if consumers don't give homegrown retailers a chance.

Your argument is based on your own greed and not on the basis of any principle of economics. You keep your blinkers on and choose to shop North or wherever else except the country that educated you/employed you/pays you social welfare benefits - whatever.
Go live in NI and work for £3.57 - £5.80 an hour, go pay council taxes, water rates and see how far you get.

You're the type that expects everything handed to you on a plate - that the world owes you a living. Your posts speak for themselves - bitter and spiteful.

spadesaspade

far from it
every corner i turn i seem to be bumping into people running companies trying to screw me for what ever they can. Dont mind spending money if im getting value but this is making me keep my money in my pocket which is not good for the recession (Not that i have much but if everyone is doing the same thing, its frightening)

Absolutly sick of it

g32

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Asda is owned by Walmart - one of the biggest retailers in the world so has huge purchasing power.
Walmart has decimated the smaller retailer, producer and suppliers in the US due to their bully tactics and it will happen here as well if consumers don't give homegrown retailers a chance.

Your argument is based on your own greed and not on the basis of any principle of economics. You keep your blinkers on and choose to shop North or wherever else except the country that educated you/employed you/pays you social welfare benefits - whatever.
Go live in NI and work for £3.57 - £5.80 an hour, go pay council taxes, water rates and see how far you get.

You're the type that expects everything handed to you on a plate - that the world owes you a living. Your posts speak for themselves - bitter and spiteful.

My argument is based on practicality, I guess I could say the same thing about retailers like yourself who took advantage of me for so long. You don't like competition because it forces you to lower your prices. I will shop wherever its cheaper. I'm not bound by any dictator who compels me to shop somewhere. I pointed out that so long as Irish Retailers continue to play the blame game and sidetrack their price problem, they will continue to suffer.

borderlinemeath

g32 wrote: »

My argument is based on practicality, I guess I could say the same thing about retailers like yourself who took advantage of me for so long. You don't like competition because it forces you to lower your prices. I will shop wherever its cheaper. I'm not bound by any dictator who compels me to shop somewhere. I pointed out that so long as Irish Retailers continue to play the blame game and sidetrack their price problem, they will continue to suffer.

Whats practical about beer?? That's the only item you have spoken about so far!! If you said you were trying to make ends meet on the dole and were trying to feed a family I might have a shred of pity for you!!

Retailers didn't take advantage of anybody. Landlords and developers tying retailers into leases that had an upward only rent review clause. They were the ones taking advantage and dictating the prices.

I guess it all comes down to the banks. They're my landlord now, the landlord that owned my building was taken over by Nama.

borderlinemeath

Terrontress wrote: »

One big thing which is available in NI but not south of the border is special offers in supermarkets. Buy one get one free. Half price offer. 3 for £10. That sort of offer is everywhere in a Sainsubrys but never to be seen in the Republic.

If you go in to Dunnes, there is a big sign promoting the fact that there are two extra biscuits in a packet.

I understand that you never get something for nothing but that feeling of getting a good deal is very much lacking in ROI.

This is in all major supermarkets in ROI:rolleyes:
Dunnes do 2 types of prepacked meat (ie mince and chicken) for €6, buy 2 boxes of kelloggs cereal for €5 etc. BOGOF on yogurts etc.
Tesco do 3 types of prepacked meat for €10, they do a meal deal for €7 when the main course is €6.99 so the starter and dessert cost 1c.
Pasta sauces bogof.

To be honest I tend not to buy fresh food in bulk as there are only 2 of us in the house, but if they have offers on toiletries or cleaning products I always buy them.

oppenheimer1

Ah now there is value to be had. Last night I was in my local tavern, a nice busy pub. Three pints of Guinness and a 7up came to less than a tenner. Included in that were complementary BBQ burgers and sandwiches that were being passed around. Must say was well impressed.

g32

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Retailers didn't take advantage of anybody. Landlords and developers tying retailers into leases that had an upward only rent review clause. They were the ones taking advantage and dictating the prices.

I guess it all comes down to the banks. They're my landlord now, the landlord that owned my building was taken over by Nama.

As mentioned, it is not the customers problem about the retailers rental cost issue. The Retailer chooses the premises entirely at their own risk. If they are naive enough to rent the most expensive premises, its their problem.

The customer will buy wherever its cheaper, like it or not.