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Rip off Ireland dead?
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Obviously you have no idea of cost prices & overheads. I don't know of many pubs that are making any sort of profit whatsoever.
Th cost price of a pint of guinness is currenty €1.56 + vat for most pubs. The retail price is €3.75 for most pubs (€3.09 + vat)
Now add up the following
Opening hours from 4pm to midnight, 7 days a week.
Heating costs
Lighting costs
Water charges (in the thousands for any sort of pub)
Rent
Commercial rates
Staff. (pub staff rates ARE almost twice the UK rates)
Apply that to a standard everyday town / village pub and check how many customers they have on monday / tues / wed & thur?
Add also to the fact that hundreds of pubs have closed over the past couple of years (if the business was as profitable as you claim, surely there would be hundreds opening not closing???)
Exactly price fixing at 1.56 euros + vat, how come guinness can be sold cheaper outside of Ireland
The base price needs to come down then the pubs can charge less, simple.0 -
Just an aside gucky, did you have problems getting the irish stations on your TV?, I had to get sky because I could recieve analog stations on UK tv
Not sure Davo as I also have sky and have never tried analog tv through it.
I couldn't see that as a problem though (maybe with digital freeview as it would be geared up for BBC, ITV etc as opposed to RTE) but I'd assume (prob wrongly) that the analogue stations would be much like a radio bought in England, ie it would pick up the stations being broadcast through it's antenna......0 -
Exactly price fixing at 1.56 euros + vat, how come guinness can be sold cheaper outside of Ireland
The base price needs to come down then the pubs can charge less, simple.
Our govt also got their wrists slapped recently about fixing the price of a box of smokes, the EU deemed it illegal for them to fix prices on 20 cigs if my memory is correct!0 -
Terrontress wrote: »That's before VRT! The Irish motorist is one of the most heavily taxed on earth.
Ah good ole vrt, completely forgot to mention that!!!
You know, looking at some of our govts practises and taxes it looks like were being shafted every which way!0 -
Terrontress wrote: »That's before VRT! The Irish motorist is one of the most heavily taxed on earth.
This bugs me. The VRT rates are extortionate compared to a lot of other countries - and the restructuring of the rates and taxes on cars from 2008 has decimated the 2nd hand car prices prior to this - which in turn gives consumers feck all incentive to trade up as their pre 2008 cars are highly depreciated on trade in.
I have my eye on a 2008 car, but my 2002 car is worth about €4000 on a trade in but it's actual book value is €6700.
Even for me to sell it private is hard as it's a 2litre and the tax is criminal on it.0 -
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borderlinemeath wrote: »This bugs me. The VRT rates are extortionate compared to a lot of other countries - and the restructuring of the rates and taxes on cars from 2008 has decimated the 2nd hand car prices prior to this - which in turn gives consumers feck all incentive to trade up as their pre 2008 cars are highly depreciated on trade in.
I have my eye on a 2008 car, but my 2002 car is worth about €4000 on a trade in but it's actual book value is €6700.
Even for me to sell it private is hard as it's a 2litre and the tax is criminal on it.
You see, I personally think that our govt needs to re-evaluate our motor tax system, were grossly over taxed for the conditions of our roads, pot holes etc, and the vrt sytem is a JOKE!
I recall Reading an article about someone buying a sports car in England where they had lived for a few years, and bight the car for x amount of money.
When they tried to register the car in Ireland, they calculated the vrt on it as a book listed price (based on a new model) and it was more than he had Already paid for the car!
Basically he had to get rid of the car as re registering it here, would have meant essentially buying it again!
Joke, absolute joke!0 -
Moderator or not, your talking rubbish!
Northern Ireland is a different country, the fact that you dislike that is irrelevant.
Your telling me that as I was born in the North I am not Irish (I couldn't be if I was born in a "different country" as you put it).
Did I say anything about you being or not being Irish? No, I did not. I said Northern Ireland is a different country than the Republic of Ireland, which it is. Many Irish citizens weren't born in the Republic, but it doesn't make them any less Irish, and I never said it did. Shame on you for misrepresenting my words to back up your flawed argument. You are the one talking rubbish, since you clearly only read what you want to see.It has when someone compares prices north and south, and follows that up by claiming they are two different countries. I was merely disagreeing with borderlinemeath, I dont see Ireland as two separate countries, but as one Island of Ireland.
The politics of nationalities has little to do with the rip-offs, and should be left out of it. Whether you see the two countries as separate or not is irrelevant, because they are separate. Different wage rates, different income tax rates, different governments, different VAT rates, and so on, all combine to distinguish the two countries from each other, and result in a difference in consumer pricing. When the price is inflated above what should be allowed by these differences, is when it becomes a rip off. And this has nothing to do with whether you, me or anyone else is an Irish citizen or a British citizen.0 -
Did I say anything about you being or not being Irish? No, I did not. I said Northern Ireland is a different country than the Republic of Ireland, which it is. Many Irish citizens weren't born in the Republic, but it doesn't make them any less Irish, and I never said it did. Shame on you for misrepresenting my words to back up your flawed argument. You are the one talking rubbish, since you clearly only read what you want to see.
The politics of nationalities has little to do with the rip-offs, and should be left out of it. Whether you see the two countries as separate or not is irrelevant, because they are separate. Different wage rates, different income tax rates, different governments, different VAT rates, and so on, all combine to distinguish the two countries from each other, and result in a difference in consumer pricing. When the price is inflated above what should be allowed by these differences, is when it becomes a rip off. And this has nothing to do with whether you, me or anyone else is an Irish citizen or a British citizen.
I notice you didn't re-quote our Countries Ammended constitution, especially where it describes our country as being "the island of Ireland" no mention of it being republic/north etc.
Also, there is a clear wish of seeking a united Ireland, so I doubt very much I'm in the minority despite what you say.
(over 4000 views and only 2 people attempted to tell me I am wrong)
Ulster is a province of IRELAND in that Province is the 6 counties, Ulster is NOT a province of a seperate country named Northern Ireland. Not the last time I checked anyway.0 -
I notice you didn't re-quote our Countries Ammended constitution, especially where it describes our country as being "the island of Ireland" no mention of it being republic/north etc.
I didn't need to quote it, because I don't dispute it. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, which the constitution does not disagree with, but it does strive to one day uniting the entire country. Until that day, Ireland remains divided into two separate countries. Giving everyone born on this Island Irish citizenship does not make us all one country, no matter how much we want it.
For reference, the parts of the constitution that were removed were;
2. The national territory consists of the whole island of Ireland, its islands and the territorial seas.
3. Pending the re-integration of the national territory, and without prejudice to the right of the Parliament and Government established by this Constitution to exercise jurisdiction over the whole of that territory, the laws enacted by that Parliament shall have the like area and extent of application as the laws of Saorstát Éireann and the like extra-territorial effect.
The national territory no longer consists of the whole island of Ireland. You might want it to, but that doesn't make it so.Also, there is a clear wish of seeking a united Ireland, so I doubt very much I'm in the minority despite what you say.
It's not what I say, it's what the referendum of 1999 said, in which the majority of Irish voters gave up the constitutional claim to Northern Ireland. It does give every person born in Northern Ireland Irish citizenship, and allows for a united Ireland if the majority of all Irish people want it in the future. But it doesn't make it so right now.(over 4000 views and only 2 people attempted to tell me I am wrong)
What that has to do with anything, I'm not sure. This isn't a popularity contest, and I'm pretty sure that all of the 4000 viewers haven't just come onto this thread since your post on the 8th page.Ulster is a province of IRELAND in that Province is the 6 counties, Ulster is NOT a province of a seperate country named Northern Ireland. Not the last time I checked anyway.
Once again, did I say it was?
Anyway, I have corrected your misquoting of my posts and misrepresentations enough times now. The next 4000 viewers are free to read both sides and make up their own mind.0 -
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Toll charge (assuming Im registerd) 2€per trip so 20 euro per week based on a five day week x 48 = €960 (£796.80 per year)
Road tax per year = €582 or £483.06
total for year €3360 + €960 + €582 = €4902 per year. (£4068.66)
In the North, the same fuel would come to £72.89 (based on my 70 euro divided by our fuel rate of 1.21 to give me 57.85 litres, so multiply that by the norths £1.26 a litre)
£72.89 x 48 weeks = £3498 (€4215)
No road tolls in north = £0
Car tax on a 2006 Passat = £180 (€216.86)
total for year 3498 + 0 + 180 = £3678 (€4431)
so cost of running a car in north per year = €4431
versus our cost of = €4902
But road tax has dropped considerably for diesel cars since 2007 (they should have extended to to older cars), also there's always an alternative to a tolled road. - NI roads are in quite poor condition with many A roads nearly impossible to overtake on (try going from Monaghan to Strabane on a busy day - virtually no chance for overtaking the whole trip - I'd gladly pay £3 to change this)
What I was trying to get across - there are different tax systems bewteen the 2 areas. - Both sides can benefit if they live close to the border, but the accusation of ordinary Irish retailers ripping consumers off is as realistic as my post of accusing N Ireland fuel retailers fo ripping people off as verifiable taxes & imovable costs make up the vast amount of the difference.
One example, Retail store of 1300 sq ft in Carlow Town Centre, Rent 40k (current market), RATES 11k, staff wages 55k + 7k employer prsi. ESB 7k
Similar store in Dungannon - Rent about the same £32k, Rates under £3k, staff costs based on same hours £35k, employer prsi £3k, electricity £4.5k
Base costs for store in S. Ireland = €115k (£95k stg)
Base costs for store in N Ireland = £77.5k
As many have said, if you want £63 dole, 40% less childrens allowance, 35% less pension & higher direct taxes in exchange for a few cent off a bottle of beer, then maybe move north or move to the UK (remember council tax there) or move to USA (heath insurance average $13,000 per family, higher federal & state taxes, av. 1% value of your property in property tax but cheaper petrol)
Swings & roundabouts - I've lived UK, France & North Eastern USA and I have no gra to go back to any of the places.0 -
Back on the Rip of Ireland subject - can somebody please explain (in very very simple terms) why I can't get own brand tablets in Tesco (they sell them in Sainsbury's for little or nothing).0
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Petrol prices have actually gone up here. The carbon tax implementation coupled with the occasional extra cents that petrol stations slapped on to take advantage of this. We also pay more on road tax than the north – much more. We are double taxed on petrol also with carbon taxes.0
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Petrol prices have actually gone up here. The carbon tax implementation coupled with the occasional extra cents that petrol stations slapped on to take advantage of this. We also pay more on road tax than the north – much more. We are double taxed on petrol also with carbon taxes.
Petrol prices have gone up in the north too.
Current average petrol prices in south = €1.33 (pumps.ie)
Current average petrol prices in NI = £1.21 (€1.47) (petrolprice.com)
Current average diesle prices in south = €1.23
Current average diesel prices in North = £1.24 (€1.51)
Current road tax for average diesl car in South (band B - most 1.6 - 2.0l diesel cars) €156 / year
Current road tax for same car in NI £110 (€132) - not a huge difference. - 2 Fills of diesel would wipe the difference out.0 -
Petrol prices have actually gone up here. The carbon tax implementation coupled with the occasional extra cents that petrol stations slapped on to take advantage of this. We also pay more on road tax than the north – much more. We are double taxed on petrol also with carbon taxes.
What proof have you of this?
Everyone knows to shop around for fuel, there is no brand that is by far cheaper than another and all it takes is for the Topaz in one locality to reduce fuel by a few cents and the neighbouring Esso and Shell follow suit.
Pumps.ie will point you in the direction of the cheapest fuel in your area, and once you aren't brand loyal then you can choose where to fill up.0 -
Petrol prices have gone up in the north too.
Current average petrol prices in south = €1.33 (pumps.ie)
Current average petrol prices in NI = £1.21 (€1.47) (petrolprice.com)
Current average diesle prices in south = €1.23
Current average diesel prices in North = £1.24 (€1.51)
Current road tax for average diesl car in South (band B - most 1.6 - 2.0l diesel cars) €156 / year
Current road tax for same car in NI £110 (€132) - not a huge difference. - 2 Fills of diesel would wipe the difference out.
That cheaper road tax (or motor tax as it's called here) only applies to newer models (I think 08 onwards)
if you bought a new car in the last two years, (brand new) you would payed considerably more for it than someone in the UK or the North due to our scandalous VRT charges,
either way the tax man gets more of your hard earned cash here!0 -
That cheaper road tax (or motor tax as it's called here) only applies to newer models (I think 08 onwards)
if you bought a new car in the last two years, (brand new) you would payed considerably more for it than someone in the UK or the North due to our scandalous VRT charges,
either way the tax man gets more of your hard earned cash here!
Also looking at higher car prices in this country for new cars.
Its unbelievable how far some people on this forum will go to justify the costs.
Davo/Borderlinemeath would probably do better as the same person.0 -
Petrol prices have gone up in the north too.
Current average petrol prices in south = €1.33 (pumps.ie)
Current average petrol prices in NI = £1.21 (€1.47) (petrolprice.com)
Current average diesle prices in south = €1.23
Current average diesel prices in North = £1.24 (€1.51)
Current road tax for average diesl car in South (band B - most 1.6 - 2.0l diesel cars) €156 / year
Current road tax for same car in NI £110 (€132) - not a huge difference. - 2 Fills of diesel would wipe the difference out.
They have gone up everywhere.
I don't think you understand my point, so I'll emphasize it again: we pay higher road taxes plus an additional tax burden on petrol (carbon tax). Much higher than what would be paid in the north.
Some stations are using the carbon tax excuse to keep petrol costs up @ 1.38 per litre.
The price difference between here and the north will eventually disappear on petrol
Prices keep rising here, and only a fool would try to deny that (unless they are on this forum defending their rip off prices).0 -
Also looking at higher car prices in this country for new cars.
Its unbelievable how far some people on this forum will go to justify the costs.
Davo/Borderlinemeath would probably do better as the same person.
:eek:
I think you'll find if you read back on my posts I am against the higher price we pay for cars in this country - but it's not to do with the car retailers - rather the measures put in place by the government through VRT and car taxes pre 2008.
The government have brought the motor industry in this country to it's knees. There have been thousands of jobs lost through dealership closures, garage closures, service industry, right down to valeting.
The majority of main dealers in this country poured millions of euro into developers pockets as the they were basically told (by the likes of BMW, Audi, VW, Toyota, Mercedes to name but a few) to build multi million euro state of the art showrooms or else they would lose the dealership they held. Gun to the head job.
This was all well and good back in the early 2000 when everyone wanted a car with a 00 reg or above and the dealerships had good figures to project a good turnover when they presented their business plan to the likes of Anglo/AIB etc.
Now the garages are devoid of customers - thanks in part to the government who decided rather than go the route of slowly abolishing VRT over time and replace with a carbon tax that they would single handedly wipe millions of euro off the value of second hand cars that the dealers owned in one fell swoop. Brilliant plan by the Green party. Just Brilliant.0 -
They have gone up everywhere.
I don't think you understand my point, so I'll emphasize it again: we pay higher road taxes plus an additional tax burden on petrol (carbon tax). Much higher than what would be paid in the north.
Some stations are using the carbon tax excuse to keep petrol costs up @ 1.38 per litre.
The price difference between here and the north will eventually disappear on petrol
Prices keep rising here, and only a fool would try to deny that (unless they are on this forum defending their rip off prices).
I don't think you got my point - g32 has been saying Irish retailer are ripping him off becasue he can buy a bottle of beer for a couple of cent cheaper in the north, - By this totally flawed logic, NI fule retailer are ripping people off as G32 does take into account any difference in Tax, duty, business costs, wages, personal taxationb etc.
If we use the Big Mac index which states how many minutes an average person has to work to earn the after tax amount to buy a big mac - then Irealnd comes out about 20% CHEAPER than the UK. Why? - Because we are paid higher and have lower direct taxation, but we do have higher indirect taxation both personal and for business - that's our tax system. - If you're near the north, you can save a few bob (not a lot any more) on certain things. Similarly someone in the North near the border can save a few bob on fuel by driving south.
Next weeks UK budget may change things again - with rumours of vat going onto books / children's clothing and some foods. + extra 2.5% vat + extra alcohol duties. - If this happens the trade will satrt going the other way - similar to late nineties & early 2000's0 -
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was in 5star hotel in donegal at weekend 9.80 for captian morgans and diet coke.WTF. stoped for lunch in the north at another 5 star hotel 4 pounds 20.got great deal for the hotel for the weekend but when they charge like this whats the point, even there dinner menu was crazy 32 euro for 10 oz steak and 5 euro for any side order:mad:.38 euro for house white wine and 5.60 for a pint of guinness.are these prices over the the top or the norm in the rest of the country have stayed in many 5 star hotels durning the boom but even then no prices like this.also if you had a baby staying with you they charge 30 euro to put a travel cot in the room.:mad:rant over.0
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My main problem with the thread is that the rant is directed purely at the retailer.
Not at the government for raping your salary of tax or PRSI, or levies. Not a mention of them. Yet we let them take this money off us every time we get paid.
Not at the banks who's precarious lending practices put the government in the position there in.
Not at the commercial rental sector whos stranglehold on commercial premises and warehousing are a huge factor in the end price of any item purchased in this country.
I'm sure there are retailers out there that are charging more than the RRP for whatever they are selling. But I'm not one - nor do I know any.
I know plenty of people working in the retail sector who have had their salaries cut, their hours increased or have lost their livelyhood due to the Recession coupled with fluctuating world markets that affected all major currencies.
I'm sure G32 can buy a bottle of beer cheaper in the North but he doesn't fill up his car with fuel when he's up there.
Some people want it every way - when you find that country that has that perfect blend of lower prices, feck all tax and year round sunshine I suggest you move there. Maybe even send us a postcard.:D0 -
was in 5star hotel in donegal at weekend 9.80 for captian morgans and diet coke.WTF. stoped for lunch in the north at another 5 star hotel 4 pounds 20.got great deal for the hotel for the weekend but when they charge like this whats the point, even there dinner menu was crazy 32 euro for 10 oz steak and 5 euro for any side order:mad:.38 euro for house white wine and 5.60 for a pint of guinness.are these prices over the the top or the norm in the rest of the country have stayed in many 5 star hotels durning the boom but even then no prices like this.also if you had a baby staying with you they charge 30 euro to put a travel cot in the room.:mad:rant over.
5 star hotel, 5 star surroundings, 5 star service, 5 star prices too - worldwide
Spirit measure southern Ireland 37.5ml
Spirit level NI 25ml
NI only has 2 five star hotels if I remember correctly - so was it the belfast hilton or culloden estate & spa that you were in?
In Donegal, it was either Lough Eske or Harveys point - both stunningly good properties with ultimate luxury surroundings - the big leather chairs in Lough eske don't come cheap!
Also if it was lough eske the house wine is €28 and at harvey's Point it is €23. - And five star house wines too judging by reviews.0 -
borderlinemeath wrote: »My main problem with the thread is that the rant is directed purely at the retailer.
That is because the retailer is also Ripping Off customers. You do not want to accept that because you have an affiliation with retail, and it serves your vested interest by pushing the blame onto someone else.borderlinemeath wrote: »Not at the commercial rental sector whos stranglehold on commercial premises and warehousing are a huge factor in the end price of any item purchased in this country.
Commercial Rates HAVE BEEN REDUCED. Rents HAVE BEEN REDUCED, VAT HAS BEEN REDUCED, Electricity prices HAVE BEEN CUT.
Do not try and pull our leg with these excuses because they are baseless.borderlinemeath wrote: »I'm sure there are retailers out there that are charging more than the RRP for whatever they are selling. But I'm not one - nor do I know any.
You believe only what you want to believe.borderlinemeath wrote: »I'm sure G32 can buy a bottle of beer cheaper in the North but he doesn't fill up his car with fuel when he's up there.
I will buy wherever it is cheaper, not where you tell me to buy.borderlinemeath wrote: »Some people want it every way - when you find that country that has that perfect blend of lower prices, feck all tax and year round sunshine I suggest you move there. Maybe even send us a postcard.:D
You do not like it when people shop up north. Just say it.0 -
I don't think you got my point - g32 has been saying Irish retailer are ripping him off becasue he can buy a bottle of beer for a couple of cent cheaper in the north, - By this totally flawed logic, NI fule retailer are ripping people off as G32 does take into account any difference in Tax, duty, business costs, wages, personal taxationb etc.
I am just wondering are you and borderlinemeath the same? You seem to have a fix on anything I say, with very similar strong opinions (which I suspect you are).0 -
They have gone up everywhere.
I don't think you understand my point, so I'll emphasize it again: we pay higher road taxes plus an additional tax burden on petrol (carbon tax). Much higher than what would be paid in the north.
You're conveniently ignoring that the tax on fuel, and the price the consumer pays for the fuel, is lower in the Republic than in the UK, including The North. Even when you include the new carbon levy, the tax and price is lower here than the North. The amount of VRT and the motor tax are higher, but the fuel taxes are not.Some stations are using the carbon tax excuse to keep petrol costs up @ 1.38 per litre.
I'm not aware of any business using the carbon levy as an excuse for artificially inflating prices. Fuel prices have increased throughout the world, and Ireland is no exception to that. Compared to Eurozone countries, we don't fare too bad.
http://www.aaireland.ie/petrolprices/
And with the exception of the USA, we compare pretty well with the rest of the world.The price difference between here and the north will eventually disappear on petrol
Check the archives on the AA site I linked and you'll see there is no evidence that the fuel price difference between the UK and Ireland is diminishing, so I don't know how you've come to that conclusion. Lacking in any evidence to support your claim, I can only assume it's misguided idle speculation.Prices keep rising here, and only a fool would try to deny that (unless they are on this forum defending their rip off prices).
If you're still referring to fuel prices, then I don't see anyone denying that the prices have gone up recently, though currently diesel is about 20c cheaper than it was this time two years ago, and petrol is about the same price. Only a fool would try to insinuate that the current high prices are solely an Irish phenomenon.0 -
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That is because the retailer is also Ripping Off customers. You do not want to accept that because you have an affiliation with retail, and it serves your vested interest by pushing the blame onto someone else.
Commercial Rates HAVE BEEN REDUCED. Rents HAVE BEEN REDUCED, VAT HAS BEEN REDUCED, Electricity prices HAVE BEEN CUT.
Do not try and pull our leg with these excuses because they are baseless.
You believe only what you want to believe.
I will buy wherever it is cheaper, not where you tell me to buy.
You do not like it when people shop up north. Just say it.
I don't care where you shop, I don't agree with you pointing the finger of blame purely at the retailer. That is where you are making excuses. Just because a shop won't lower it's price below cost you throw your toys out of the pram, blame the retailer and run up north.
Prices have reduced - you're too busy heading up north in your car to have noticed. And the difference is decreasing as the euro weakens.
I work in retail but I'm also a consumer so I see and understand both sides. You have been asked but haven't divulged your occupation (if you have one) so how do we know you're not a convicted shoplifter with a grudge against retailers??:D0 -
borderlinemeath wrote: »I don't care where you shop, I don't agree with you pointing the finger of blame purely at the retailer. That is where you are making excuses. Just because a shop won't lower it's price below cost you throw your toys out of the pram, blame the retailer and run up north.
Prices have reduced - you're too busy heading up north in your car to have noticed. And the difference is decreasing as the euro weakens.
I work in retail but I'm also a consumer so I see and understand both sides. You have been asked but haven't divulged your occupation (if you have one) so how do we know you're not a convicted shoplifter with a grudge against retailers??:D
Prices definitely have reduced here. With exchange rates, wages etc, it is unrealistic to expect parity or even near it. A 20% difference would be keen now.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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borderlinemeath wrote: »I don't care where you shop
Then you can mind your own business so then.borderlinemeath wrote: »I don't agree with you pointing the finger of blame purely at the retailer. That is where you are making excuses. Just because a shop won't lower it's price below cost you throw your toys out of the pram, blame the retailer and run up north.
No no, that is you. Retail prices in this country are high, and giving the excuse like 'it costs more to operate here' is no longer applicable considering all the overhead reductions I previously mentioned. This despite the fact that you refuse to accept that.borderlinemeath wrote: »Prices have reduced - you're too busy heading up north in your car to have noticed.
You mean by a few cents?
I always shop around because I believe in value for money. The difference is barely decreasing as prices have now started to rise again here in the 26 counties.borderlinemeath wrote: »I work in retail
Thanks for confirming your vested interests.0
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