[Article] - Dublin Bus counts cost of plunge in passengers

Cookie_Monster

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STAYING in might be the new going out -- but it is costing Dublin Bus €30m a year through plummeting passenger numbers.

Far fewer people are taking the bus to work, to shop, or to dine out because they are unemployed or under financial strain.

This has cost Dublin Bus €30m a year in lost passenger journeys between 2008-2010, the Irish Independent has learned. This represents a huge fall of 20 million passenger journeys over the period.

"Passenger journeys will have reduced by about 20 million between 2008 and 2010 as a result of the recession, resulting in a loss of revenue of approximately €30m a year," according to Joe Meagher, Dublin Bus chief executive.

Mr Meagher said the effects of the recession in terms of unemployment and reduced retail and leisure activity started during 2008.

The bus chief said the recession had a "serious impact" on passenger numbers.

And another 15 million passengers had switched to the Luas, since it was launched six years ago, and to upgraded Dart services.

The company got €9m less in government subsidies, down from €83.2m to €75.9m this year.

There are just 1,044 buses operated by Dublin Bus, a drop of 18 since 2004. And so far this year, no old buses have been replaced, compared with 200 between 2006 and 2007.

Mr Meagher revealed that competition from the Luas and the Dart, and the suburban rail upgrade cost the company around 15 million fares.

"In revenue terms, it is a loss of about €22m per annum," he said in a letter to Fine Gael transport spokesman Fergus O'Dowd.

Mr O'Dowd said he acknowledged the recession had hit transport operators hard. But he said it highlighted the need to throw open more routes to competition.

Modernise

"I acknowledge that Dublin Bus is working hard to modernise its fleet and introduce efficiencies, but the core point is there is not enough buses and competition," he said.

Dublin Bus also cites the growth of car ownership by 22pc over the period up to 2009 as another factor in the drop in bus passengers.

Also, the fuel duty rebate was abolished for all public transport operators in 2008, resulting in a 146pc, or €16m, increase in the cost of fuel for Dublin Bus.

The company has already undertaken an overhaul of its operations that will result in 90 buses being taken off the road. The changes will take effect from July, but the company insists passengers will not be affected and that they will be providing more frequent services with fewer buses.

€30m a year is a lot, I doubt they are really in a position to sustain this in the medium term. I wonder (apart from the Network Review) what they will need to end up doing to decrease the loss?

Still the wrong attitude in relation to the bolded line. Its not competition, its an alternative and should be an integrated one at that.

Stonewolf

The systems shouldn't be working in competition with each other, they should complement each other.

Diairist

codswallop

if I try to get a bus from O'Conell Bridge to Heuston I'll have to wait 20 minutes easily. The way my travelling plans work out, I'd have to wait a half our or hour for a bus back to O'connell Bridge.

rather than re-invent bus routes and put digital dispalys on bus stops, try a simple wiltle paper schedule showing when buses arrive at THAT bus stop, not when they left Harristown or Enniskerry.

Integrated ticketing may result from having an elected Lord Mayor - it does in most European capitals and literally all French cities.

KC61

Diairist wrote: »

codswallop

if I try to get a bus from O'Conell Bridge to Heuston I'll have to wait 20 minutes easily. The way my travelling plans work out, I'd have to wait a half our or hour for a bus back to O'connell Bridge.

rather than re-invent bus routes and put digital dispalys on bus stops, try a simple wiltle paper schedule showing when buses arrive at THAT bus stop, not when they left Harristown or Enniskerry.

Integrated ticketing may result from having an elected Lord Mayor - it does in most European capitals and literally all French cities.

Your initial comment is a tad over the top. While the 92 is scheduled every 15 minutes, you do have the option of the more regular 25, 26, 66, 67 from Westmoreland Street to Parkgate Street, a short walk from Heuston, so a 20 minute wait is exaggerating. Under the new proposals the 145 from Heuston will be every 10 minutes.

Incidentally it is also the case that the bus is consistently faster than the LUAS from Heuston to O'Connell Street, courtesy of the continuous bus lane along the North Quays.

The Network Direct project encompasses the introduction of realtime information, and redesigned printed timetables with intermediate timing points.

The project has to be seen in the round and not just single changes in isolation. This is a complete redesign of the entire business.

AlekSmart

I acknowledge that Dublin Bus is working hard to modernise its fleet and introduce efficiencies, but the core point is there is not enough buses and competition," he said.

Dublin Bus also cites the growth of car ownership by 22pc over the period up to 2009 as another factor in the drop in bus passengers.

Fair play to Fergus O `Dowd,he appear to be workin hard to keep up his profile and stay on-message.

However he may well just have misunderstood the thrust of Joe Meaghers letter.

The "Core-Point" is not the lack of buses,but rather the explosion of Private Car useage.

What Mr Meagher is saying is that notwithstanding Dublin Bus being in possession of one of the youngest Bus Fleets in Europe and of the company having a general efficiency level on a par with the European Norms,as noted by Mssrs Deloitte,it cannot expand it`s business due to the dominance of Private Car ownership.

Is Mr O Dowd suggesting that if 1,044 Dublin Bus vehicles cannot be fully utilized that adding more such vehicles in private ownership will offer any substantial benefit to anybvody ?

That 22% growth in Car Ownership is what Mr O`Dowd and his Oireachtas colleagues needs to focus on,or more specifically the reasons why so many people felt they had to buy and run a car in order to survive in our Capital.

It`s all about Policy,Mr O Dowd,and the lack of understanding of that concept from within the Legislatature is what has led this City`s Public Transport systems to their current perilous state.

We,as a City,possess all the relevant individual elements of modern efficient and affordable Public Transport functionality,but,thanks to generations of Politicians interfereing and grandstanding,we now have a stodgy glutinous mess with nobody appearing to be in overall charge.

Address that deficiency,Mr O Dowd,before launching forth with plans to bring the Darlington Bus Wars to Dublin :mad:

foggy_lad

walk to abbey street and get the luas which should arrive within about 8minutes and get you to heuston station in about 15minutes quite a lot faster than any bus!

Cookie_Monster

AlekSmart wrote: »

That 22% growth in Car Ownership is what Mr O`Dowd and his Oireachtas colleagues needs to focus on,or more specifically the reasons why so many people felt they had to buy and run a car in order to survive in our Capital.

Its a totally meaningless figure though. 22pc rise since when? 2 years ago, 5, 10, since DB existed, since the founding of the state... etc etc

Stonewolf

The reason all those people use cars is because Dublin Bus is useless. Its routes are rubbish, timetable aspirational and information poor. On top of that busses score poorly on comfort, especially in hot weather and at peak times and there's too many scumbags ruining the experience for everyone else. To top it all off in bad weather you're more often than not left waiting for a bus at a stop that offers absolutely no protection from the elements.

I can't think of a single reason why someone would use busses unless they didn't have a choice.

Cookie_Monster

Stonewolf wrote: »

I can't think of a single reason why someone would use busses unless they didn't have a choice.

traffic, core routes like the 145 are hugely quicker into/ out of town at rush hour.

I have no issue with not being comfortable on buses, I think they are grand.

KC61

foggy_lad wrote: »

walk to abbey street and get the luas which should arrive within about 8minutes and get you to heuston station in about 15minutes quite a lot faster than any bus!

Where are you getting that notion from?

I get a bus on Westmoreland Street most mornings and it is at Heuston Bridge within 8 minutes, certainly faster than walking and taking the LUAS.

This sort of pre-conceived opinion is what really annoys me.

dogmatix

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

traffic, core routes like the 145 are hugely quicker into/ out of town at rush hour.

I have no issue with not being comfortable on buses, I think they are grand.

I agree with the comfort aspect. The buses are fine to sit on and use and I find them fairly clean too.

Apart from some reliability issues, my main gripe with Dublin bus is the skanger element and the companies apparent non-interest in addressing it. Smoking on buses is fairly common now (on the upper deck at least) but is illegal of course. Dublin buses response to this is to have an automated announcement that "smoking is illegal on all our buses and you can be fined X amount". Voice is provided by a very non-threatening 18 year girl that must have the skangers quaking in their boots. It can be fun sometimes to count the number of times the announcement activates on the 79A from Aston quay to Parkwest.

KC61

dogmatix wrote: »

I agree with the comfort aspect. The buses are fine to sit on and use and I find them fairly clean too.

Apart from some reliability issues, my main gripe with Dublin bus is the skanger element and the companies apparent non-interest in addressing it. Smoking on buses is fairly common now (on the upper deck at least) but is illegal of course. Dublin buses response to this is to have an automated announcement that "smoking is illegal on all our buses and you can be fined X amount". Voice is provided by a very non-threatening 18 year girl that must have the skangers quaking in their boots. It can be fun sometimes to count the number of times the announcement activates on the 79A from Aston quay to Parkwest.

This and the ongoing LUAS thread do really make me think that we as a society have a lot to answer for.

There is a far wider problem here within Irish society in general, which is manifesting itself on public transport. Should these issues fundamentally be the transport operator's problem? However, to my mind no one really seems to care.

schemingbohemia

It'll be interesting to see what O'Dowd says about the car parking levy when it's brought in. And what his party will say about congestion charging when it's brought in.

Privatisation of bus routes will do nothing to improve passenger numbers.

gurramok

Its interesting to note that alot of bus drivers get the car to work on active bus hours rather than getting the bus!!

antoinolachtnai

Blaming bad behaviour on 'society' is just a load of rubbish. There is nowhere else in Dublin where this sort of behaviour would be tolerated towards other customers - no pub, no dosshouse, not even any drug den.

This quote from the report is unbelieveable:

"Dublin Bus also cites the growth of car ownership by 22pc over the period up to 2009 as another factor in the drop in bus passengers."

The thinking seems to be: 'if we could somehow stop people from owning cars, then people would be forced to use our bus service again, no matter how crappy it is'.

Despite being given hundreds of millions of euros to drive modal shift, Dublin Bus does not seem to be able to grasp the idea that a poor bus service might have encouraged more people to use cars. Instead they have spent all the money on buses that it turns out aren't needed and overheads that deliver no value to the public.

dynamick

Stonewolf wrote: »

I can't think of a single reason why someone would use busses unless they didn't have a choice.

The main reasons to use a bus when I have a car in Dublin are:

• speed: faster on certain bus routes at peak times than driving
• cost: parking costs 2.90/hour in the city centre
• alcohol: I can choose to drink if I'm out without my car

doncarlos

Stonewolf wrote: »

The reason all those people use cars is because Dublin Bus is useless. Its routes are rubbish, timetable aspirational and information poor. On top of that busses score poorly on comfort, especially in hot weather and at peak times and there's too many scumbags ruining the experience for everyone else. To top it all off in bad weather you're more often than not left waiting for a bus at a stop that offers absolutely no protection from the elements.

I can't think of a single reason why someone would use busses unless they didn't have a choice.

And what do Dublin bus do? Cut routes and number of busses which forces more people to drive. I've never owened a car but buying one shorty as two routes have been cut to where I live and I'm fed up waiting on busses that arrive at inconsistant times.

KC61

doncarlos wrote: »

And what do Dublin bus do? Cut routes and number of busses which forces more people to drive. I've never owened a car but buying one shorty as two routes have been cut to where I live and I'm fed up waiting on busses that arrive at inconsistant times.

This is what the network direct project is all about addressing.

Kensington

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Privatisation of bus routes will do nothing to improve passenger numbers.

If a private bus company could manage to schedule their services on time and I had a reasonable chance of getting a seat every day, it'd certainly entice me back! Even if it cost me an extra few 10c on the current €1.80 fare.

The 150 bus service from Templeogue to Fleet Street is utterly pathetic. Many a time I waited as long as 40 minutes on Fleet Street for a bus that is supposed to run every 10 minutes. Add to that some genius made the decision only to run 40-seat "midibuses" during peak times. It's some fun trying to pile onto a 40 seater bus alongside 40-minutes worth of queuing passengers, and no guarantee whatsoever when the next bus will be along. Eventually gave up, bought a bike and haven't looked back so far...

markpb

Kensington wrote: »

The 150 bus service from Templeogue to Fleet Street is utterly pathetic. Many a time I waited as long as 40 minutes on Fleet Street for a bus that is supposed to run every 10 minutes.

I've never used the 150 route so I won't argue with you post but I am surprised at it. I take a variety of buses (anything along the Swords Road, Malahide road and the 17a) and I would estimate they are over 95% reliable. I don't think I've ever waited 40 minutes for a late bus.

The only exception is for cross city buses like the 16, 16a or 746 - I don't know if they're reliable or not but without a proper timetable, there's no way to know so I don't rely on them if I can help it.

Add to that some genius made the decision only to run 40-seat "midibuses" during peak times.

Again, I don't know your route but I know the 123 is restricted to single decker buses because St. James won't allow double deckers in case people on the top floor might see into the wards.

Kensington

The 150 does have a timetable, which is what makes it all the more annoying when the buses rarely show up on time! In fairness, I can't fault routes like the 10 or 46A which are always very regular but unfortunately, since I can never really rely on being able to get into town on time to get these busses on to work, I've given up on them entirely.

Also, the 150 has no issue running double deckers during off peak, in fact they seem to run double deckers on the route when they're least needed!

the_syco

"I acknowledge that Dublin Bus is working hard to modernise its fleet and introduce efficiencies, but the core point is there is not enough buses and competition," he said.

Privatise Finglas and Ballymun. See how quickly certain routes stop, as they endanger the drivers, and the buses. The state must provide buses. The private company can just move the bus stops. FAAAARRR away.

=-=

Swings and roundabouts. How fast will it take you get a Luas from Westmoreland Street. Faster to get a 66, a 25, etc, etc.

As for cars, it's because more businesses are setting up on the edge of Dublin, as no longer do you "have to" be in the city to do business. Thus, you can either get a bus into town, and anther one back out, or you can drive. Driving is usually quicker, and more reliable. Also, less likely to strike.

dogmatix wrote: »

It can be fun sometimes to count the number of times the announcement activates on the 79A from Aston quay to Parkwest.

It would be even more "fun" to see how long before someone rang for the ambulance for the bus driver that told the skangers to stop smoking, and how many more minutes it takes for an ambulance to get to their location.

Most of the skangers on the 66 have found out that the bus driver will just stop outside a (Lucan or Leixlip) Garda station, and allow them to arrest the smoking skangers.

The bus drivers are paid to drive the bus. Not to enforce the law, or get the sh|t kicked out of them.

gurramok wrote: »

Its interesting to note that alot of bus drivers get the car to work on active bus hours rather than getting the bus!!

This has to be the most retarded comment I've seen today. How, pray tell, would the drivers get to the bus station before the buses start, or get home after the buses end?

schemingbohemia

Kensington wrote: »

If a private bus company could manage to schedule their services on time and I had a reasonable chance of getting a seat every day, it'd certainly entice me back! Even if it cost me an extra few 10c on the current €1.80 fare.

The 150 bus service from Templeogue to Fleet Street is utterly pathetic. Many a time I waited as long as 40 minutes on Fleet Street for a bus that is supposed to run every 10 minutes. Add to that some genius made the decision only to run 40-seat "midibuses" during peak times. It's some fun trying to pile onto a 40 seater bus alongside 40-minutes worth of queuing passengers, and no guarantee whatsoever when the next bus will be along. Eventually gave up, bought a bike and haven't looked back so far...

you would find that it would cost significantly more than 1.80 if a private service with no subsidisation did the route. though obviously there's no excuse for the poor service you're getting.

what would happen with a private operator is that they would have a proper service to start with then gradually reduce the service to peak hours with no in between service as happened in manchester and many other UK cities.

Stonewolf

schemingbohemia wrote: »

what would happen with a private operator is that they would have a proper service to start with then gradually reduce the service to peak hours with no in between service as happened in manchester and many other UK cities.

That's more a problem with the terms of the franchise than anything else.

The whole idea of competition on bus routes is a bit daft, what you want is to set the terms of service for a route according to certain levels and franchise out the operation to a private company who will receive fares plus subvention according to their tender for operating that service level. This way you effectively take the budget you would use on an inefficient, poorly operated public service and use it to leverage an external operator to bring private sector efficiencies and methods to the service. If the private company fails to meet it's QoS targets it risks its subvention and because it gets all the fares if it feels it can make a profit off increased QoS it can operate those additional services.

Bazzer2

Kensington wrote: »

The 150 bus service from Templeogue to Fleet Street is utterly pathetic. Many a time I waited as long as 40 minutes on Fleet Street for a bus that is supposed to run every 10 minutes.

Over the past year there have been problems with buses accessing that part of Fleet Street due to ongoing building works, which now seem to have been completed.

Without notice to the public, buses have been told to avoid it if the place was blocked up with construction vehicles. This would have undoubtedly affected the 150, but many other routes too, such as the Tallaght routes on their way to Ringsend, and Blanchardstown buses on their way into Hawkins Street.

antoinolachtnai

schemingbohemia wrote: »

you would find that it would cost significantly more than 1.80 if a private service with no subsidisation did the route. though obviously there's no excuse for the poor service you're getting.

what would happen with a private operator is that they would have a proper service to start with then gradually reduce the service to peak hours with no in between service as happened in manchester and many other UK cities.

First, a private operator might get a subsidy. There is no reason why not.

Second, why do you think it would cost more than 1.80 per passenger to run that route? From working in the industry, my view is that that route should be profitable. Many Dublin Bus routes appear to be profitable, even with DB's high cost base. It seems to be a small proportion of routes which pull the whole thing down. Dublin Bus's costs are well over the odds anyway. DB keeps all this mired in mystery.

Thirdly, the poster's issue wasn't with the price, it's with the quality of the service. It would be worth paying a higher fare and a higher subsidy, if the service were acceptable (and this would probably drive passenger numbers too).

Bazzer2

the_syco wrote: »

This has to be the most retarded comment I've seen today. How, pray tell, would the drivers get to the bus station before the buses start, or get home after the buses end?

I might be wrong, but I imagine the OP is pointing out the very irony of public bus drivers relying on private transport to get them to and from their place of work.

angel01

I think for me, the impression I have had is that DB are not doing enough to encourage people to get out of their cars and reasons why they should use the bus.

They need to up the PR side of the game and show people what are the benefits for using the bus and publicise routes and special offers they have etc.

I find their website very poor to say the least

gurramok

the_syco wrote: »

Privatise Finglas and Ballymun. See how quickly certain routes stop, as they endanger the drivers, and the buses. The state must provide buses. The private company can just move the bus stops. FAAAARRR away.

Somebody got a chip on their shoulder??

the_syco wrote: »

This has to be the most retarded comment I've seen today. How, pray tell, would the drivers get to the bus station before the buses start, or get home after the buses end?

You cannot read, you put your foot in it.

I said during 'active bus hours', not before the buses start or when the buses end. Have a look at the giant car park in Ringsend bus garage for example when you are down there next time pal.

Cuddlesworth

gurramok wrote: »

You cannot read, you put your foot in it.

I said during 'active bus hours', not before the buses start or when the buses end. Have a look at the giant car park in Ringsend bus garage for example when you are down there next time pal.

Logic would dictate with the working times of bus's that a large proportion of the drivers would either start their shift before buses start or end their shift after buses finish.

stimpson

The main reasons NOT to use a bus when I have a car in Dublin are:

• speed: 20 mins door to door as opposed to an hour or more on the bus
• cost: marginal cost of driving is the cost of a litre of diesel
• parking: free parking in work
• reliability: I don't have to pray that my car will turn up
• alcohol: I can't afford to drink in pubs any more
• weather: It rains a lot in the winter
• BO: people sweat a lot in the summer
• bonus: it pisses off John Gormley

gurramok

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Logic would dictate with the working times of bus's that a large proportion of the drivers would either start their shift before buses start or end their shift after buses finish.

Then why do I see alot of bus drivers arriving and leaving that garage in a car during normal hours every day ?

Regarding competition, I understood that there used to be some, but DB didn't like this, so they increased bus frequencies on those private routes to eliminate the competition. Once the private buses went out of service, DB resumed doing nothing.
Can't remember where I read it though. But it seems to be impossible to get a sustained private service.

KC61

bluewolf wrote: »

Regarding competition, I understood that there used to be some, but DB didn't like this, so they increased bus frequencies on those private routes to eliminate the competition. Once the private buses went out of service, DB resumed doing nothing.
Can't remember where I read it though. But it seems to be impossible to get a sustained private service.

Circle Line have alleged this but the case has yet to come to court, so it has yet to be proven.

cleveland browne

gurramok wrote: »

Then why do I see alot of bus drivers arriving and leaving that garage in a car during normal hours every day ?

Because they may arrive during "normal hours" but their finish will be after "normal hours".

Because they may be leaving during "normal hours" but they may have arrived long before "normal" hours

And for the exact same reason public transport is not an option for other people they bought a house miles outside of Dublin during the celtic tiger as that was all they could afford.

jack presley

stimpson wrote: »

The main reasons NOT to use a bus when I have a car in Dublin are:

• speed: 20 mins door to door as opposed to an hour or more on the bus
• cost: marginal cost of driving is the cost of a litre of diesel
• parking: free parking in work
• reliability: I don't have to pray that my car will turn up
• alcohol: I can't afford to drink in pubs any more
• weather: It rains a lot in the winter
• BO: people sweat a lot in the summer
• bonus: it pisses off John Gormley

I'm pretty much the same. The thing that annoys me is that 9 mornings out of 10 the bus will arrive no problem. But what do you do the 10th morning when it doesn't? Until you can rely on the bus being there every morning I'm not going to use it.

the_syco

gurramok wrote: »

Somebody got a chip on their shoulder??

No. Last year sometime, buses would not go into certain estates, as the buses were getting badly damaged. Something was worked out, and the bus stops were changed slightly. Now, if it were a private company, they could just pull out.

gurramok wrote: »

You cannot read, you put your foot in it.

I said during 'active bus hours', not before the buses start or when the buses end. Have a look at the giant car park in Ringsend bus garage for example when you are down there next time pal.

I have no idea where that is. Conyngham Road Depot would be the one that serves the buses that I get.

A Dublin Bus drivers shift is usually 7 or 8 hours long, I think, so if* they started at 6am, and finished at 2pm, with a late shift going from 4pm to 12am (not including nightlinks), and a middle shift covering the end and start of both shifts, this would mean that between 1pm and 5pm there'd be a lot of cars in the depot. Some of said cars would be from the morning shift, and the middle shift, and then from the middle shift, and the evening shift.

*I don't know their rosters

bluewolf wrote: »

Regarding competition, I understood that there used to be some, but DB didn't like this, so they increased bus frequencies on those private routes to eliminate the competition. Once the private buses went out of service, DB resumed doing nothing.

I do believe that this happened on the Celbridge route.

jack presley wrote: »

Until you can rely on the bus being there every morning I'm not going to use it.

All I can say is: dead car battery is a b|tch

Kensington

Bazzer2 wrote: »

Over the past year there have been problems with buses accessing that part of Fleet Street due to ongoing building works, which now seem to have been completed.

Without notice to the public, buses have been told to avoid it if the place was blocked up with construction vehicles. This would have undoubtedly affected the 150, but many other routes too, such as the Tallaght routes on their way to Ringsend, and Blanchardstown buses on their way into Hawkins Street.

This has (or should I say had, I don't take the bus anymore) been going on for the 4 years I relied on the bus daily, long before any work began on Fleet Street.

antoinolachtnai

the_syco wrote: »

No. Last year sometime, buses would not go into certain estates, as the buses were getting badly damaged. Something was worked out, and the bus stops were changed slightly. Now, if it were a private company, they could just pull out.

Dublin Bus actually did pull out. It is unclear to me whether this was a decision by Dublin Bus or by the union. But the situation should never have been allowed get that far.

Dublin Bus got the bus for free and is subsidised to repair the bus. The private operator would be in the same position, presumably.

A private company would go to great lengths to avoid pulling out, because if it did it would lose money.

jack presley

the_syco wrote: »

All I can say is: dead car battery is a b|tch

Never happened so I wouldn't know. What I do know is that if I don't look after my car and service it regularly, it's my fault if something goes wrong, in other words it's in my hands to make sure it doesn't happen. I'm not relying on other people's competence/incompetence to get me to work on time.

AlekSmart

Dublin Bus actually did pull out. It is unclear to me whether this was a decision by Dublin Bus or by the union. But the situation should never have been allowed get that far.

I think Antoin is being slightly disingenuous with this particular comment.

Firstly there are somewhat depressingly regular occurrences of service removal or more usually,curtailments,in area`s where such thuggery is a well established way of life.

Antoin ands other can be assured that Dublin Bus management`s default position is to maintain full service level.

This notion of "The Union" as being a form of parallell entity ghost-managing a route is far from the truth,however comforting it may be to many.

There needs to be some appreciation maintained of what the nature of these attacks actually is.

First and foremost,for anybody to throw a solid object at a any vehicle containing people is to my mind a concerted attempt to inflict grevious bodily harm upon the occupants of that vehicle.

The capacity to inflict such harm is immense and yet most of these occurences are regarded by the Authorities as generally falling within the ambit of the "Juvenile Liason Scheme" something which instills a great great level of confidence in the perpretators which likely as not will allow them to progress further up the ladder of criminal seriousness.

Some years ago I partook in a Marian Finucane RTE programme covering a spate of such attacks and consequent service disruptions.

The night before the programme there were a series of attacks on route 44 buses en-route to Enniskerry.
I brought along with me a boulder weighing 1lb 12 Oz which had come through the side window of one Bus.

My point then,as now,was that there could be no ambiguity concerning the intentions of any individual who would throw such a missile at an occupied Bus.

I would suggest a charge of Attempted Murder,but no doubt that would de described as over-reacting.

The most serious attack I personally was involved in was caused by a golf-ball thrown through the window of a 746 just past Foxrock Church.

This was a very serious attack as the missile shattered the window showering a woman and her 10 year old son with glass before striking another woman with some force.

The cost of these incidents,when factoring in the attendance of emergency services and service disruption is substantially above any mere "Commercial" cost which some prefer to focus upon.

However,to infer as Antoin appears to,that receipt of a State Subsidy in respect of any particular service provision should result in any corporate entity disregarding threats to the safety of it`s passengers and staff appears to me a tad unreasonable.....

Dublin Bus got the bus for free and is subsidised to repair the bus. The private operator would be in the same position, presumably.

A private company would go to great lengths to avoid pulling out, because if it did it would lose money.

If Antoin or anybody else believes that Dublin Bus management does not go to equally "great-lengths" to avoid such service disruption then I would suggest they enquire amongst local Garda Management and Residents Groupings as to the amount of liason meetings,joint-mobile patrols and other associated (and expensive) securty measures which tend to occur in the immediate aftermath of serious attacks on Public Services.

If,as again,Antoin infers the private operator`s view of any such attack focuses primarily upon the financial repercussions of such then an entirely different "appalling vista" opens before us.

Surely in the wake of any such individual attack,the relevant Operator (Private or Public),now has it`s Duty-Of-Care obligations amended somewhat.

Instead of blithely assuming that "sure it`s only bored kid`s messin around" before instructing an Employee to "Drive-On,there" any Senior Manager would do well to reflect upon the increased responsibility now thrust upon them subsequent to that Manager now being aware of an increased threat to the safety of their Staff and Customers.

In a constantly evolving public-safety environment,the establishment of operating criteria to deal with such thuggery now would suggest the immediate involvement of the Gardai and the continuance or resumption of such services being agreed in the light of their guidance or suggestions.

In the old days it would not have been unusual to see a CIE/Dublin Bus area manager out at an incident scene,behaving like some enthused General Gordon rallying his forces to repel the Mahdi`s wild eyed assailants.

This sort of performance,whilst at one point an integral part of Hands-On management in this industry,has been consigned to the dustbin of operational management history as it slowly dawned upon people that the General Gordon type was by his actions accepting any and all responsibility for the consequences of his orders,a something the Company might just decide was above and beyond the Managerial Brief.

I would very much hope that I am misreading Antoin`s intentions here,as I`m sure would any Swords Express employee who,as the Company`s services expand out into the wilds,might find themselves on the recieving end of a few bricks playfully tossed in the direction of their coach.

Chuchoter

When I learn to drive I have no intention of ever taking a bus again. They never come when they're supposed to, they're too concentrated in certain areas leaving the rest basically empty, they take ages and don't go where I want them to go. The service is crap, they shouldn't complain that they are now in competition with the Luas or whatever. Make the buses better and stop bus drivers abusing their breaks (I can't think of any other reason a bus would be consistently late with no traffic other than a lazy driver spending 40 minutes at a terminus rather than 10) and then people will take them

markpb

I must be one of the lucky ones. My buses (17a, 27b and 27x) are always on time and always reliable. My journey time has fallen dramatically in the last year - on a good morning, I can travel from Coolock to Stephens Green in 25 minutes (including changing bus once) during the morning rush hour and even though I take between 2 and 6 buses a day, I've only had two buses fail to show in the last year. Since I get my bus + Luas ticket through work, it costs me €554 a year.

the_syco

crayolastereo wrote: »

Make the buses better and stop bus drivers abusing their breaks (I can't think of any other reason a bus would be consistently late with no traffic other than a lazy driver spending 40 minutes at a terminus rather than 10) and then people will take them

One thing I don't know is what is the law regarding how long their breaks have to be, as they are transporting people. I'm not talking about the law that regulates the people in the office, I'm talking about the law for people driving professionally?

donspeekinglesh

markpb wrote: »

I must be one of the lucky ones. My buses (17a, 27b and 27x) are always on time and always reliable. My journey time has fallen dramatically in the last year - on a good morning, I can travel from Coolock to Stephens Green in 25 minutes (including changing bus once) during the morning rush hour and even though I take between 2 and 6 buses a day, I've only had two buses fail to show in the last year. Since I get my bus + Luas ticket through work, it costs me €554 a year.

You're very lucky so, or services have really improved recently. When I used to get the 17a (2-3 years ago) the mornings were okay, but the service was rubbish in evenings - regularly no bus for 30-40 minutes.

Captain Chaos

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

You're very lucky so, or services have really improved recently. When I used to get the 17a (2-3 years ago) the mornings were okay, but the service was rubbish in evenings - regularly no bus for 30-40 minutes.

The 17a is still a disaster in the evenings. I waited 45mins for it one day when they were ment to be every 20 mins, then when it showed up it was a jammers single decker. I have never seen a single in about 10 years on that route.

Its fine in the mornings though.

monument

stimpson wrote: »

The main reasons NOT to use a bus when I have a car in Dublin are:

• speed: 20 mins door to door as opposed to an hour or more on the bus
• cost: marginal cost of driving is the cost of a litre of diesel
• parking: free parking in work
• reliability: I don't have to pray that my car will turn up
• alcohol: I can't afford to drink in pubs any more
• weather: It rains a lot in the winter
• BO: people sweat a lot in the summer
• bonus: it pisses off John Gormley

What's your commute? From where to where? At what times?

KC61

the_syco wrote: »

I do believe that this happened on the Celbridge route.

As I said above - this has yet to be proven - the case has yet to be heard in court.

markpb

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

When I used to get the 17a (2-3 years ago) the mornings were okay, but the service was rubbish in evenings - regularly no bus for 30-40 minutes.

I won't argue the timetable is crap in the evenings (it's timetabled to run every 25-30 minutes) but my point wasn't that it was a great service, just that it was a reliable service, even in the evenings.

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The 17a is still a disaster in the evenings. I waited 45mins for it one day when they were ment to be every 20 mins, then when it showed up it was a jammers single decker. I have never seen a single in about 10 years on that route.

One bad experience does not make it a bad bus route

KC61

gurramok wrote: »

Its interesting to note that alot of bus drivers get the car to work on active bus hours rather than getting the bus!!

Did it occur to you that perhaps while one part of their shift starts or ends during active bus hours, the other doesn't?

Maybe they don't live on bus routes directly connecting them to the garage they work out of?

The bus cannot facilitate every commute!

KC61

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Blaming bad behaviour on 'society' is just a load of rubbish. There is nowhere else in Dublin where this sort of behaviour would be tolerated towards other customers - no pub, no dosshouse, not even any drug den.

Antoin if you seriously are trying to suggest that we don't have a problem as a wider society with anti social activities, then I don't know what planet you are living on.

It manifests itself in a whole host of forms and locations and not just on public transport. But the authorities in the main do not want to know. They prefer to turn a blind eye.