Chuggers now calling to the front door

Eoin

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Then there was the charity in Dublin whose government funding was stopped cos someone had a salary of €120,000 per year and was pulling other money tricks. Cant remember their name, but jack o connor from the union was defending them.

He didn't have a salary of 120K, he had an overall package of 120K. So factor in pension, VHI and any other benefits, and you're probably looking at a salary of something like €85,000, which is low for a CEO.

smilerxxx

Great thread,

TBH i really thought there was something wrong with me, I get very annoyed with those guys, with everything that's going on in the world today, all the scams and robbers, I really don't care how safe the charity is, i'm giving you feck all, its not worth the risk of having my account cleaned out. I don't have the luxury of risking any of my money, yes even 2.50 a week. Give me guarantees all ye like, I don't care.

Now you can say "how can I not care"
I care about children, adults, animals, I give to research for illnesses, animal welfare, care of an older person. And basically any guy with a box thats standing there using his free time, getting nothing in return!

I'll stand there myself, I'll put whatever I can into the box.
But please guys, anyone looking for DD makes me very uneasy, I don't think you have the best intentions and I think you could be doing more productive charity work/promotion. Run that marathon, make the new guinness world record, sell daffodils, pink ribbons, t-shirts, it might not make as much money as the DD's but in the long run, that charity has no bad press whatsoever. Good reputation attracts good people.

rubadub

Menengroth™ wrote: »

I find "**** off" and a door slammed in their face to be particularly effective.

I find having no doorbell is even more effective.

There was no doorbell on my house when we moved in, still do not have one years on, I would recommended getting rid of one to anybody!

Anybody I would want to answer the door to will phone in advance or when outside, if it was really important a person would hammer the door until we heard. I don't think there has ever been an instance where I ever said "we should really get a doorbell". If I move into a new house with one I would definitely remove it.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Scarinae

Collie D wrote: »

Just noticed something. I didn't know chuggers called themselves chuggers

This amused me greatly as well. Do they realise 'chugger' means 'charity mugger'?

rubadub

Obaraten wrote: »

i have the blood of african children in my hands wtf like

She/it is lucky they didn't have the spit of an Irish man on their face.

Fishie wrote: »

This amused me greatly as well. Do they realise 'chugger' means 'charity mugger'?

It is strange, I wonder what other subhuman scum call themselves, like muggers who keep all the money for themselves & burglars & vandals.

phasers

My 52 year old da takes great pleasure in telling them he's not 18 yet. Their expressions are always hilarious.

My approach is to let the dogs into the porch to bark at them

starbelgrade

ChuggaChugga wrote: »

Star - Who are you to play God and decide who should live and who should die...?! And that is ONLY an expression, I'm not overly religious (just before I get jumped upon for that!)

And I disagree, if all charities pulled out of Africa, I don't think the governments there would co-ordinate in a mass movement... the saying the rich get richer and the poor get poorer has been around a long time for a reason...

More than $1 trillion has been sent to Africa over the last 50 years. And what has it all achieved? Between 1970 and 1998, when aid flows to Africa were at their peak, poverty in Africa rose from 11% to a staggering 66% - roughly 600 million of Africa's billion people are now trapped in poverty. Aid has done some good on a local level, however, aid has been, and continues to be, an unmitigated political, economic and humanitarian disaster for most parts of the developing world - and Africa in particular, which is shearing off. The rest of the world is going one direction, on one growth trajectory, and Africa is going completely in the opposite direction. And yet we sit around and discuss sending over more aid? I mean, come on.

And why is Africa so different from other countries with mass poverty? The largely unspoken and insidious view is that the problem with Africa is Africans - that culturally, mentally and physically Africans are innately different. That, somehow, deeply embedded in their psyche is an inability to embrace development and improve their own lot in life without guidance and help. For whatever reason, the problem is pity. We don't feel sorry for the Chinese. The Chinese have 30 million people who live in similar to Western standards, but a billion people living in dire poverty. Do you think anybody feels sorry for the Chinese? No. What about Indians? India has a huge proportion of poverty-stricken - does anybody feel sorry for them?

And the pity, has been devastating. It has meant a blind eye being turned to corruption - aid being like striking oil, or finding diamonds, in its potential to tempt. It has meant a kind of continent-wide addiction (with, as the policy director of Christian Aid pointed out in a letter to the Independent, the concomitant "loss of self-control, ability to think forward, the confidence to act for oneself and believe in oneself"). And it's not just the developing countries that become dependent: people depend on disbursing aid for their livelihoods. It is self-perpetuating: multilaterals have to keep lending in order for debts to be serviced. It nurtures, civil war: it becomes worth fighting over resources. Over the past 50 years 40 million Africans have died in war - equal to the population of South Africa.

Increasingly, over the last decade, the stick that accompanies the aid carrot has been a demand for "good governance". What is meant is transparent institutions, rule of law, lack of corruption; in practice, this is often equated with multi-party elections. But, the western mindset erroneously equates a political system of multi-party democracy with high-quality institutions . . . the two are not synonymous. Many African countries have dutifully held elections - but that hasn't made them any more liberal, or improved the quality of their civil institutions.

In Ethiopia, where, over 90% of the government budget is attributed to foreign aid, you can clearly see the aid economy in action - the flash 4x4s & the high salaries of the foreign workers living cushioned lives on nice exchange rates. In addition it is clear how little say not only the citizens have, but the governments have. You hardly ever see participation from domestic policymakers in designing and discussing what was, essentially, their future - Africa's future. There are so many classic examples of people's lives essentially being shaped and designed by policy that's not domestically constructed. One example of this was George Bush's requirement that two-thirds of the $15bn he was giving to fight Aids had to go to pro-abstinence programmes, and none could go to any establishment that provided abortions.

Partly, of course, it's about power, and purse-strings; partly, it's a PR issue, there are many well-spoken, smart African leaders who should be on the global stage; very largely, given that so far not many are, it's a case of who gets to do the talking, and increasingly, it is people like Bob Geldof and Bono, the most visible representatives, of "glamour aid". There are African policymakers who are charged with the responsibility of creating policy, and implementing policy. That's their job. Long, long lines of people have stood in the sun to vote for a president who is effectively impotent because of donors or because glamour aid has decided to speak on behalf of a continent. How would Irish people feel if tomorrow Bono started telling them how they should get out of the housing crisis? Or if Amy Winehouse started to give the US government advice about the credit crunch? And was listened to?

What is needed in Africa is for a complete systemic overhaul.

So what would happen if you stopped aid to Africa tomorrow? Wouldn't it damn millions to even more suffering? Most people would find that very hard to watch. But it's hard to watch already. There are many countries where 70% of the population is living on less than a dollar a day. If we continue down this path, the extreme could be that we end up with huge uprisings. Remember that in a lot of these countries 50% of the population is under the age of 15. In 10-15 years, you have so many people on the streets who have no jobs, no prospects, that you end up in a situation where the state implodes. And we've already seen that in Africa, in cases like Somalia. There are no vested interests, there's no growth, there are no jobs, no prospects for the future.

Most Africans, I believe, if you went to them and said this is going to be tough, but we're going to assure you that your children are going to have a better future, I'm pretty sure most families would be willing to make the sacrifice. That was how America was built. Families made major, major sacrifices so that their children would have a better life. And Africans are willing to do that. They are not different. They have the same aspirations and hopes that everybody else has.

You suggested that my belief that aid to Africa doesn't work & should be stopped was "playing God". You also said that "the saying the rich get richer and the poor get poorer has been around a long time for a reason". But in many ways, all foreign aid is doing is ensuring that this situation not only remains the same, but worsens & is in fact "playing God" with the lives of Africans & the very future of Africa itself.

Sonnenblumen

^^^Better cancel the World Cup

Chardee MacDennis

some lad was trying to shake peoples hand in town the other day, cant imagine he lets go to you've heard the spiel...

davecadcm

just out of curiosity was anyone else banned other than chugga chugga. and if not what was s/he banned for....

having read it back i dont think s/he has said anything worse than, "ill spit in your face if you come to my door."

As for the aforementioned comment, i really want to knock on your door, streight to jail you go for assault.....

As for calling ourselves chuggers meh what other way is there to say it. Its just easier than explaining what a customer aquesitions representative is....

Indubitable

davecadcm wrote: »

just out of curiosity was anyone else banned other than chugga chugga. and if not what was s/he banned for....

Possibly because 12 out of 13 of posts made by chuggachugga were on this thread and they were all very insulting towards other boards members.

chuggachugga was also the one who provoked these verbal attacks.

If you really want to know, I suggest you ask the moderator responsible for the ban.

davecadcm

I think you will see that there have been verbal attacks on the profession previouse to chugga chugga joining the site..

And I find threats of assault much more offensive than insulting someones intelligance after a baseless and abusive comment with no backing in logic or reason...

rubadub

"Career", "profession" -hilarious stuff, you guys should have been comedians instead of chuggers.

I can imagine the mothers meeting an old friend
-"my Johnny ended up a Professor of Thermodynamics in MIT"
-"ah well, I suppose he always was a bit wayward, whereas my Billy ended up a Chugger, I had a tear in my eye when he graduated with first class honours"

mcmoustache

davecadcm wrote: »

I think you will see that there have been verbal attacks on the profession previouse to chugga chugga joining the site..

And I find threats of assault much more offensive than insulting someones intelligance after a baseless and abusive comment with no backing in logic or reason...

We're not supposed to discuss bannings in thread. And no back-seat modding either....uh.oh....

Back on topic, I suggest printing off starbelgrade's piece above. Then memorize it.
And next time you meet a chugger, hold their hand so that they can't escape and recite the whole thing word for word, start to finish. Then ask them:
"How does it feel to have blood on YOUR hands?"

davecadcm

well if you are good at it and willing to keep at it there is a career there... and not just in fundraising but other aspects of the business....

weepee

Perhaps telling them your an Immigration Officer, and to call back next month, might work.

Queen-Mise

What really offended me with the chugger was their repeated counter arguements of my position. She honestly tried to bully/persuade me to support them.

Noone else coming to your door would be this like sky, chorus, religious ppl, people selling sofas etc., eggs, timber, turf. None of there would counter argue your answer.

Why do chuggers believe they can. They act as if it is a god given right to do it.

starbelgrade

Queen-Mise wrote: »

What really offended me with the chugger was their repeated counter arguements of my position. She honestly tried to bully/persuade me to support them.

Noone else coming to your door would be this like sky, chorus, religious ppl, people selling sofas etc., eggs, timber, turf. None of there would counter argue your answer.

Why do chuggers believe they can. They act as if it is a god given right to do it.

Print off a copy of this text, hand it to them & walk away / close the door:

More than $1 trillion has been sent to Africa over the last 50 years. And what has it all achieved? Between 1970 and 1998, when aid flows to Africa were at their peak, poverty in Africa rose from 11% to a staggering 66% - roughly 600 million of Africa's billion people are now trapped in poverty. Aid has done some good on a local level, however, aid has been, and continues to be, an unmitigated political, economic and humanitarian disaster for most parts of the developing world - and Africa in particular, which is shearing off. The rest of the world is going one direction, on one growth trajectory, and Africa is going completely in the opposite direction. And yet we sit around and discuss sending over more aid? I mean, come on.

And why is Africa so different from other countries with mass poverty? The largely unspoken and insidious view is that the problem with Africa is Africans - that culturally, mentally and physically Africans are innately different. That, somehow, deeply embedded in their psyche is an inability to embrace development and improve their own lot in life without guidance and help. For whatever reason, the problem is pity. We don't feel sorry for the Chinese. The Chinese have 30 million people who live in similar to Western standards, but a billion people living in dire poverty. Do you think anybody feels sorry for the Chinese? No. What about Indians? India has a huge proportion of poverty-stricken - does anybody feel sorry for them?

And the pity, has been devastating. It has meant a blind eye being turned to corruption - aid being like striking oil, or finding diamonds, in its potential to tempt. It has meant a kind of continent-wide addiction (with, as the policy director of Christian Aid pointed out in a letter to the Independent, the concomitant "loss of self-control, ability to think forward, the confidence to act for oneself and believe in oneself"). And it's not just the developing countries that become dependent: people depend on disbursing aid for their livelihoods. It is self-perpetuating: multilaterals have to keep lending in order for debts to be serviced. It nurtures, civil war: it becomes worth fighting over resources. Over the past 50 years 40 million Africans have died in war - equal to the population of South Africa.

Increasingly, over the last decade, the stick that accompanies the aid carrot has been a demand for "good governance". What is meant is transparent institutions, rule of law, lack of corruption; in practice, this is often equated with multi-party elections. But, the western mindset erroneously equates a political system of multi-party democracy with high-quality institutions . . . the two are not synonymous. Many African countries have dutifully held elections - but that hasn't made them any more liberal, or improved the quality of their civil institutions.

In Ethiopia, where, over 90% of the government budget is attributed to foreign aid, you can clearly see the aid economy in action - the flash 4x4s & the high salaries of the foreign workers living cushioned lives on nice exchange rates. In addition it is clear how little say not only the citizens have, but the governments have. You hardly ever see participation from domestic policymakers in designing and discussing what was, essentially, their future - Africa's future. There are so many classic examples of people's lives essentially being shaped and designed by policy that's not domestically constructed. One example of this was George Bush's requirement that two-thirds of the $15bn he was giving to fight Aids had to go to pro-abstinence programmes, and none could go to any establishment that provided abortions.

Partly, of course, it's about power, and purse-strings; partly, it's a PR issue, there are many well-spoken, smart African leaders who should be on the global stage; very largely, given that so far not many are, it's a case of who gets to do the talking, and increasingly, it is people like Bob Geldof and Bono, the most visible representatives, of "glamour aid". There are African policymakers who are charged with the responsibility of creating policy, and implementing policy. That's their job. Long, long lines of people have stood in the sun to vote for a president who is effectively impotent because of donors or because glamour aid has decided to speak on behalf of a continent. How would Irish people feel if tomorrow Bono started telling them how they should get out of the housing crisis? Or if Amy Winehouse started to give the US government advice about the credit crunch? And was listened to?

What is needed in Africa is for a complete systemic overhaul.

So what would happen if you stopped aid to Africa tomorrow? Wouldn't it damn millions to even more suffering? Most people would find that very hard to watch. But it's hard to watch already. There are many countries where 70% of the population is living on less than a dollar a day. If we continue down this path, the extreme could be that we end up with huge uprisings. Remember that in a lot of these countries 50% of the population is under the age of 15. In 10-15 years, you have so many people on the streets who have no jobs, no prospects, that you end up in a situation where the state implodes. And we've already seen that in Africa, in cases like Somalia. There are no vested interests, there's no growth, there are no jobs, no prospects for the future.

Most Africans, I believe, if you went to them and said this is going to be tough, but we're going to assure you that your children are going to have a better future, I'm pretty sure most families would be willing to make the sacrifice. That was how America was built. Families made major, major sacrifices so that their children would have a better life. And Africans are willing to do that. They are not different. They have the same aspirations and hopes that everybody else has.

You suggested that my belief that aid to Africa doesn't work & should be stopped was "playing God". You also said that "the saying the rich get richer and the poor get poorer has been around a long time for a reason". But in many ways, all foreign aid is doing is ensuring that this situation not only remains the same, but worsens & is in fact "playing God" with the lives of Africans & the very future of Africa itself

Mike 1972

I gave up reading after this bit

starbelgrade wrote: »

And why is Africa so different from other countries with mass poverty

Africa is a country ?