8 month old going to toilet at night

doubtfir3

Hi

I have two dogs, both mixed breed - one about 20 months (spaniel/something mix) and the second about 9 months (collie/husky mix).

The 20 month old is fine with the toilet and has no problems, but the "pup" is still causing problems at night - sometimes..

They are out for a lot of the day and then come in about 9pm each night, and I let them out every hour or so to go to the toilet until about 11 or 11.30pm when they go to bed.

They are let out again in the morning about 7-7.30am.

I had to use pads with the pup to toilet train him and he will hold on until I let him out and understands the "toilet" command, but I still (2-3 mornings a week) come down to a mini lake or perhaps something more solid perhaps once a week.

He doesn't drink a lot of water last thing at night, goes to the toilet just before bed and is generally quite good at his "toilet" behaviour, but I was wondering if anyone can shed any light on this?

I realise that he's still just a pup and is getting it right most of the time, but was wondering if he will grow out of it once he gets a bit bigger and his bladder develops more I should go back to putting the pad down at the back door for him?

I would have thought that would be taking a step backwards.. what do you think?

fred funk }{

Remember there's a lot of water in food. Make sure you don't give him food late in the evening and take away his water when going to bed. And make sure he urinates before bed time.

We had the same problem with our fella and that method worked a treat.
Good luck

doubtfir3

they get fed every day about 2pm and then drink water as they want it throughout the day and evening.. they drink mostly from the pond but neither dog tends to drink a lot in the evening and both know the routine now that when they're let out last thing that they have to go to the toilet.

I guess its fingers crossed that he'll grow out of it!

fred funk }{

What goes in must come out

Maybe try taking up their water a few hours before bed time and restrict them from drinking from the pond, if you can.

kylith

<snip> If you don't catch them in the act then they don't know why you're giving out to them. They don't connect 'I wee on the floor-the human sees the wee-the human gets angry', instead all they know is that you're angry with the wee, I've heard of dogs taking to weeing behind the sofa because all they know is that if it's in the middle of the floor they'll get told off.

I've heard that crate training is good because they don't like to foul their bed, so locking them in the crate means that they'll hold it until they get out.

Another option is to set your alarm for the middle of the night, take him out to wee, then go back to bed. You can then lengthen the time between bed time and early-morning toilet break. i.e. 4am one week, 4.30am the next, 5am the week after that, and so forth.

doubtfir3

I'm not sure that I like the idea of not leaving any water in the evening but I guess it will be worth a try.. the older dog was a dream always with house training.. i'm thinking of getting a cork for this little fellow!



I'll try and supervise drinking for a week or so and see how I get on..

Thanks!

cocker5

kylith wrote: »

Just wanted to say that any trainer I know says that this is the exact wrong thing to do. If you don't catch them in the act then they don't know why you're giving out to them. They don't connect 'I wee on the floor-the human sees the wee-the human gets angry', instead all they know is that you're angry with the wee, I've heard of dogs taking to weeing behind the sofa because all they know is that if it's in the middle of the floor they'll get told off.

I've heard that crate training is good because they don't like to foul their bed, so locking them in the crate means that they'll hold it until they get out.

Another option is to set your alarm for the middle of the night, take him out to wee, then go back to bed. You can then lengthen the time between bed time and early-morning toilet break. i.e. 4am one week, 4.30am the next, 5am the week after that, and so forth.

Crate training this is an idea....
personally i dont like the idea of confinning the dog and wouldnt put my dog in a crate... and some dags become dependant on them.......then you have this huge cage in your kitchen... no thanks... i know people who have two huge crates in the kitchen taking up half the place... then you cant leave them out of the cage or they will still poo etc.....
NO WAY for me thanks i dont want crates in my kitchen.... my guy has a normal bed etc... but it does work for people... just be careful you may be stuck with these crates in your home for life

If you train he correctly now, there is no nedd for the above...

The giving out to him after he has done the deed, i agree with what you have said above to a point.... yes giving out to him after the fact wont have the total desired effect.. but it worked for me... you are correct the most beneficial way it giving out at the time of the crime... but this is not always possible...

<snip>

Best of Luck


See below got from internet site - not sure if its any use!

Here are some tips that will make housetraining faster and easier. It works on puppies or dogs. Even an adult dog can be put on this program and successfully be housebroken.

• You can train a dog to us a specific area of the yard by keeping your pup on a leash every time you go out, and go directly to the designated part of the yard. Later, he’ll only use that part of the yard. This lets you enjoy your yard without worry about stepping on something.
• Take the puppy outside after he eats, sleeps, plays/exercises, or comes out of the crate.
• Praise him verbally and with a pat when he does his business. Then go immediately inside. This will show him the purpose of going outside. I would not recommend leaving the dog out in the yard all day, because it confuses housetraining.
• For the first two to three days — while you’re home with him — put the puppy in his crate with something to chew so that he associates the crate with good things. Let him stay in the crate for an hour, then take him out and immediately go outside. Do this twice or three times per day.
• When you have to go back to work, make sure the puppy is empty (you may have to go for a walk to assure that he empties out), then put him in his crate with something to do (chew bone, etc.).
  A puppy can be expected to “hold it” for the number of hours that matches his age in months. So a four-month-old puppy can only be expected to hold it for four hours. This is true up to about 10 hours. That’s as long as any dog should be expected to hold it.
• Dogs sometimes pick up from us that there’s something wrong with being left alone because of the way we act when we leave and when we return. Do not say “goodbye” to him or change your voice or make a fuss when you leave the house. Just leave. When you come home, again, don’t do the high-pitched, excited voice or the overdone affection (until after you both come back inside). When you walk in the door, calmly take the puppy outside before you do anything else. Your whole attitude should be, “See? There’s nothing to it.”
• Many people think that a dog is housebroken when he comes to you to ask to be let out, or scratches at the door. Don’t put the burden on your dog. Take him out on a regular schedule and he’ll know that there will be an opportunity to go soon. This will help him to hold it until the next potty break. Take him out first thing in the morning, after every meal, right before bed, and anytime you come home, no matter how long or short a time you’ve been gone. He needs to know that when you walk through that door, he’s going out.
• If a dog is having diarrhea, additional breaks might be needed. If you see your pup hanging around the door, let him out.
• If you take him out on a schedule, you’ll learn when he pees and when he poops. If you’re taking your morning break and he hasn’t pooped like he ususally does, you know that he’ll need to go while you’re at work. In this case, maybe a walk would give the results you need. Paying attention to what’s normal will help prevent a situation where he’s locked in his crate and half an hour later, he needs to go.
• If you let the dog sleep in your bed, be aware that when he wakes up and moves around during the night, he may need to go out. If you have him in a crate, you may have to set the alarm and take him out. If he cries at night, cover the crate with a blanket.
• If he soils the crate, don’t punish. Just take him out, then clean it up and continue with the routine. Being confined in a stinky crate is enough of a lesson for him.
• After a while (at age 9-12 months), you may not need the crate as much, and you can start letting him have the run of the house while you’re gone. If he makes a mess, go back to the crate for 3 months before trying again. By age 1 (or before), he should be trustworthy in the house while you’re gone. But keep the crate for him so he can go to his private place whenever he wishes.

If you have a doggie door, the procedure is the same, until he learns to go out by himself. But you should still be there early on to praise him and to train him to go in a certain part of the yard.

I’ve heard trainers suggest giving a cookie when the dog pees or poops. I don’t like this idea because then the dog becomes focused on the treat. Praise the dog and immediately go back inside. This will show the dog why you’re out there. This applies to yard training, of course. If you live in an apartment, you’ll just walk your dog on a schedule that he can count on.

andreac

You absolutely should not restrict a dogs water from 7pm til the next morning. Its bordering on cruelty as dogs need access to fresh water at ALL times.

I would def go with crate training if its taking long to train him as it will def help in your situation. With regards to having a crate in the kitchen, so what, if its needed i dont see the problem. You are trying to help the dog and it doesnt have to be there 24 hours a day, only at night and trust me it will def help your situation. It also doesnt mean you will need it forever either.

I would advise feeding as early as possible and making sure he gets a good walk just before bed time to empty himself and maybe dont give him as much water as usual but make sure he has a little.

Its prob just habit now rather than actually needing to go but at 9 months he should be able to hold it.

Maybe try getting up slightly earlier too to let him out and eventually you can extend out the time and he will learn to hold on that long.

If you have a young pup late night wakes up are essential as pups cant hold it all night, so 3am wake ups are not madness, its part and parcel of dog ownership and responsibility.

andreac

<snip>
Crate training is not cruel and most dogs happily go into a crate on their own accord, i know mine certainly would, i wouldnt even have to tell him to go in, he would go in himself as its like a little den for him which is safe and secure for them.

I dont use a crate now, only if im staying over somewhere different and i need to keep him in his crate.
It def is not the lazy way out either, your understanding of crate training is very strange if you ask me.
How is a small crate clogging up the kitchen?? if its only for over night theres not even going to be anyone there to be clogging up? you can put it away the next morning, so i really dont get your reasoning??

<snip>

Edited to add: Crate training is just one training method that can be used. Its not ridiculous just as other methods of training arent ridiculous either as long as they are humane and free from cruelty/pain etc. Just because you dont agree with it doesnt make it ridiculous.

Training a dog is finding something that works for your dog and every dog is different so what works for one might not work for another, but doesnt make them ridiculous in any shape or form just because someone doesnt necessarily agree with that method or if they dont work on every dog.

cocker5

<snip>
I have no interest in getting into debate with you...

Fine you use crate training.... couldnt care less...
yes i do think its cruel.... locking a dog in a confined space for no reason only you havent trained him properly,
my dog has a lovely big bed ... difference is he can get into when he wants and out when he wants...sometimes he wants to sleep on the tiles when he too warm... it his choice....etc.. but he get in and out as he pleases.... he's not locked away maybe i should him in a carte so when he's too warm he cant get out..... ah sure he can just sweat it out.......(JOKE)

He is TRAINED to behave and mannerly and he does just that...

Most people dont actually sleep for 1/2 a day as you are suggesting above?? or maybe you are different... most people sleep about 7 hours per night... i sleep about 6.... so nowhere was anyone suggesting you should leave you dog without water for half a day....
you are dramatic to the end... :eek:

<snip>

Your dog should be able to be left attended somewhere with his bed (NOT A CRATE) and behave... simple as.. or if your in a new place, he should be able to get in his bed no worries, NOT LOCKED IN A CAGE!

star-pants

Andreac / Cocker5 I suggest ye both take a breather from this thread and calm down. Also if anyone has any issues with a post - report it - don't respond and don't backseat mod.

IvySlayer

I trained my dog on newspaper, if my dog ever needs to go inside she'll go on a newspaper on the floor.

If we were out for the night, and it's too cold/wet to leave her outside, we'd just put a paper on the floor, she'd go there even when she was old. It's something they won't forget.

cocker5

IvySlayer wrote: »

I trained my dog on newspaper, if my dog ever needs to go inside she'll go on a newspaper on the floor.

If we were out for the night, and it's too cold/wet to leave her outside, we'd just put a paper on the floor, she'd go there even when she was old. It's something they won't forget.

good practical training method...

has been done for years... worked then and will still work today -
good post

Sittingpretty

<snip>

My dog sleeps in a crate. Am I cruel? We don't close the door and she goes in there of her own accord. Cruel? No.

You base you argument on the fact that anyone that disagrees with the methods you have used to are either cruel or wrong. Not so.

What did people do years ago? they rubbed their dog's noses in their own filth and scared the bejeses out of them. Was that ok? No.

And dogs should have access to clean, fresh water at all times. In this weather denying a dog access to water overnight is cruel whether you like it or not.
<snip>

star-pants

Andreac reporting a post after you have retaliated yourself is useless.
Cocker5 same goes for you - don't report a post & then respond to it & backseat mod by saying I've warned them - I warned you too.
I should give both of ye a ban but I won't - I've cleaned up the thread now so consider this a final warning
if ye want to debate take it PM.

Now everyone back on topic to giving the OP helpful advice

doubtfir3

Thanks all for your comments...

The funny thing is that I go out with the pup both during the day and late at night and tell him to "go toilet".

He will stand in front of me and pee. (for an age!!!) and when he's finished I give him lots of praise, and if he's in between say 8pm and 11 he won't go to the toilet inside, so its just overnight that's a problem..

For example, this week he's bee great.. no wee overnight, and then this morning I was up at 6am to a river coming out under the utility door..

I guess I like your idea IvySlayer, I initially trained him with pads and didn't really savour the thought of having to use pads/paper for the rest of his life, but I guess that it will get better and better over time!

If I do have paper down he will definitely use that so I guess its the best option.

I'll try that for the next while.

Thank you all!

andreac

To be honest it just sounds like habit now if theres nothing medically wrong with him.
So what i would do is set my alarm and get up earlier and let him out. You need to break the cycle with him now and you will have to get up early in order to do so.
Try settting your alarm for maybe 5am and see is the place free from wee at that time and let him out, is it possible to just get up and that time and just leave the kitchen door open or leave them in the garden until you get up later so save you staying up for too long at that time with him, you can just go straight back to bed for another while then.

Then you can gradually lengthen the time so he should be able to hold it all night then.

To be honest paper will only confuse the dog, esp if you dont want him to go in the kitchen, and you will have to train him again to go outside, so i wouldnt recommend paper as the dog will think its ok to go in the kitchen when thats not what you want. Its only prolonging the training if you start using paper again and the dog wont really know what you want.