Hit by car on a Roundabout, could use some opinions

Marchandire

I was hit by a car on a roundabout earlier tonight, and I'd really appreciate some opinions on what happened from fellow cyclists. No physical damage, but I reckon that was down to luck more than anything else :eek:

I was on a large, two lane roundabout with four exits, in the correct lane, and using hand-signals (which tbh I don't always do on smaller roundabouts, but was this time).

The car basically came onto the roundabout from an exit I had just passed (I was entering the roundabout and going right around to my exit, so I should have passed two exits before my own). She didn't seem to see me, didn't stop or slow entering the roundabout, and hit me with side of her car, dragging me along for a couple of feet before stopping. I stayed on my feet, didn't sustain any injuries and my bike was ok to get me home. Bit of a buckle on the front wheel but not noticeable on the scene.

The driver stopped, asked if I was ok, etc, so no problem there.

I do have a couple of questions: as the cyclist, would you have called the guards for a case like this? No damage, she didn't flee the scene, and tbh I don't think the guards would do much in any case. I think that driver learned a serious lesson anyway. However, for the principle of the thing, I'm wondering if I should have reported it.

Furthermore, do people here commonly use roundabouts? I probably avoid them 60-70% of the time, using the pavements and ducking around that way. Of course, this is illegal but after my experience tonight I suspect I'll be doing it all the time now.

What gets me is that I was obeying all the rules and did everything right in this case, and the incident was totally outside of my control. If I'd taken a head-on hit from that car I'd be very seriously injured. So if this can happen so easily to cyclists, should the rules of the road be changed for us, so we're not forced by law to risk using roundabouts?

Lumen

Glad you're OK.

No, I wouldn't have called the Gardai if there was no damage or injury unless I thought her driving was bad enough to warrant a charge.

Yes, I do use roundabouts, all the time, small and large. No, I wouldn't cycle on the footpath for any reason, not least because it's inconvenient.

This can happen occasionally but try and anticipate and always have a contingency plan (if at all possible).

xz

not to start a them and us argument ( been done to death), but a large majority of drivers have not got a clue how to use roundabouts correctly, the most common one is lack of indicators,and the other most common one I have seen is approaching roundabouts too quickly,and the driver being unable to stop in time and makes that split second decision to "floor it" onto the roundabout, a lot of people need to see this http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/videos/roundabouts_70.mpg. doesn't go into too much depth,but gives the basics about signalling.

As regards to cyclists using roundabouts, the large ones can be pretty daunting,here's what the Rules of the Road says:
Be particularly careful when approaching a roundabout.
Be aware that drivers may not see you easily.
Watch out for vehicles crossing your path as they leave or enter the
roundabout.
Take extra care when cycling across exits.
Give plenty of room to long vehicles on the roundabout, as they need
more space. Do not ride in the spaces they need to use to get around the
roundabout. Be aware of the driver’s blind spots. If you can’t see the
driver, they can’t see you. Indeed, it may be safer to wait until they have
cleared the roundabout before you go on it.

Mits

It sound like it was an accident and the driver did not see you.

You should report it to the garda, they won't do anything about it but at least there will be a record of it. Just to cover yourself. The driver on reflection may report and say it was your fault.

As an adult on a bike you should not cycle on the foot path. It is not fair or safe for pedestrians.

DualFrontDiscs

+1 on Lumen's post.

In addition........ did you get contact details/ car reg?

You might feel fine now, but tomorrow......? There's lots of adrenaline pumping when you have an accident. It could easily mask an injury. And the driver should cover the legitimate costs of repairing your bike.

Also, to the extent possible I always try and establish eye contact with drivers. So hopefully I know they've seen me (or not). And they know that I know, if you know what mean.

DFD.

keano007

Not much point in calling the guards if no one was injured however from what you have said her driving was extremely dangerous as she failed to yield or even slow down for you. It depends on how you feel about it and wheather you think she deserves a day in court for her erratic driving

At the very least you should of got her details? As you said you only noticed a buckle in the wheel when u got home, in my opinion you should be compensated for that!

pjordan

Funny enough the same thing very nearly happened me yesterday morning also. I stopped the bike and gave the driver a very dirty look but did not exchange any words with her. In reflection afterwards (I was a bit hyped up by the expereince at the time and slighty shook by the near miss) I probabaly should have spoken quite frankly to her. She was an older woman with an other older woman as a passenger and either I think they plainly didn't see me, were too engrossed in conversation with each other, was approaching the roundabout too fast and hadn't enough control/couldn't stop soon enough or were oblivious to anything except another motorised vehicle on the roundabout. I think the latter is actually the most likely scenario in the majority of cases in that most motorists are so cocooned and insulated in their metal boxes that nothing other than another vehicle of a similar or larger size on the road registers on their radar which is the same reason for all the cut offs and near misses at traffic lights and on the ridicilious non segregated cycle lanes on roads edges.

Whilst I wouldn't advocate the 'ole sue/insurance comp culture, as another poster said it might have been no harm nonetheless to take the drivers details in case you needed to seek redress for damage noticed on your bike or to yourself later.

SubLuminal

Always file a report, always take details, you were fine but she might leave someone else who is less lucky paraplegic and a history of bad driving can help them get the compensation they'll require to live the rest of their lives with the discomfort and disability they'll suffer because she was too silly to live up to her responsibilities as a car driver.


Sorry to be harsh, but sometimes you have to be, to be fair...

Velo Bro

It must be the week for it as I had two incidents during the week both at roundabouts. The first one was with me overtaking a slowing car just before a roundabout and the lady driver dropped the window and abused me verbally even though I feel she had plenty of room to get by. I feel sometimes people get too competitive on the road and don’t realise that the accelerator will give them the advantage again a few seconds later. I’m always quite careful about holding my line from years of riding in groups and bunches so I’m fairly sure I didn’t cause her to swerve etc. I got the usual ride in the bike lane mantra and when I started to explain how dangerous they can be she drove off. She actually had started to swerve into the oncoming lane when she was ranting which had a bit of irony about it.

The other incident was just after I dropped my daughter to school and I was taking the first exit off the roundabout (We live in an estate of roundabouts) so no need to cross in front of a cars path. As I was entering the roundabout this car came up along side me then braked in the middle of the roundabout. I think he thought for a second that I was going to continue around. I must admit this time I didn’t signal. He took the same left as me. Next thing his wing mirror hits my elbow and the side of my bars, I’m relaxed and comfortable on the bike and it wasn’t much of an issue to stay upright but Jasus!!! I saw red and made the international signs of “I’m reading your number plate and calling the Garda (In hindsight it probably looked like I was attempting the YMCA) At that point about 30 meters away he stopped and started apologising. His daughter was in the front seat beside him so I couldn’t say much other then watch what the hell your doing.

I didn’t call the Garda on either occasion mainly because we all makes mistakes on the road from time to time and I think if someone is obviously apologetic and acknowledges they made a mistake then fair enough. I have plenty of experience of some private bus drivers and some (not all) taxi drivers who are so aggressive in the bus lanes and will cause an accident at some point due to their driving.

Velo Bro

irlforum

My opinion would be that that people here are too nice??

OP you may think she learned her lesson but she might not have. Some people only learn maybe when they get a kick up the **le? And a hard day in court might spread around to other peoples ears than this driver that hit you - I'm sure she will never tell anyone about what she did.

I don't live in Dublin so I don't really know what it's like to use cycle lanes but why can't people just use the lanes and signal from roundabouts?? All you should be worrying about is following your "own" rules and reporting lethal drivers and there reta*rded antics to the cops - try and get as many as them locked up as you can because they deserve it. Something needs to really change out there. Motorcyclists are in the same boat as cyclists aswell...

Car drivers - I'm not being over the top when I say that 90% of them haven't the skills for basic rule following on the road. Why not do something about it if you get the chance?

I'm just thinking here about the "We all make mistakes thing". While that's true I'm just not sure after thinking about it if I'd ever make the mistake of flying onto a roundabout. Coming up to a roundabout always makes me wake up abit I suppose...It seems like this driver (in OP) just is very irresponsible.

poochiem

Glad you're ok.

No reason to call the guards really, nobody was hurt and she probably learned a valuable lesson.

just to hijack the thread: I nearly knocked someone off their bike the other day. Cycling towards town I had just passed the Tesco in Merrion and was closing on a cyclist in the bus lane. About 75 yards away but I noticed that he was in shade compared to the bright day thanks to the overhanging trees. So I reached under the saddle to stick on my rear LED and took that opportunity to check the traffic behind me before pulling out. I looked to the front and was right on top of him. I managed to slow and pull away a little but still caught him in a GAA style shoulder charge! Luckily he didn't crash or even fall off. I pulled in and made my apologies and excuses. I was probably doing around 35kph and he was at a crawl but I hadn't realised how slowly due to the shade etc. We all make mistakes.

DirkVoodoo

Roundabouts are awful. I can take a lot of them as fast or faster than a car, yet people still fail to yield right of way, attempt to undertake me, etc. in addition to the usual list of being in the wrong lane, not indicating.

Glad you are ok OP.

Didn't a guy say recently in the Netherlands bikes have the right of way on roundabouts? I think something like this should be implemented, the cycle lanes that cut across some of them are lethal. They either put you with your back to traffic as you cross them or in a position where people cannot see you. Stopping 3 or 4 times in road cleats trying to cross a roundabout is not only annoying but quite dangerous.

irlforum

poochiem wrote: »

Glad you're ok.

No reason to call the guards really, nobody was hurt and she probably learned a valuable lesson.

just to hijack the thread: I nearly knocked someone off their bike the other day. Cycling towards town I had just passed the Tesco in Merrion and was closing on a cyclist in the bus lane. About 75 yards away but I noticed that he was in shade compared to the bright day thanks to the overhanging trees. So I reached under the saddle to stick on my rear LED and took that opportunity to check the traffic behind me before pulling out. I looked to the front and was right on top of him. I managed to slow and pull away a little but still caught him in a GAA style shoulder charge! Luckily he didn't crash or even fall off. I pulled in and made my apologies and excuses. I was probably doing around 35kph and he was at a crawl but I hadn't realised how slowly due to the shade etc. We all make mistakes.

Yes everyone does make mistakes but I'm sure drivers on roundabouts not using indicators are not making mistakes - they just don't give a damn. I suppose it's alot of these same people that don't know how to use lanes.

I suppose this driver coming onto the roundabout like they did could be passed as a mistake though. Give them benefit of the doubt and all that.

DirkVoodoo

Yes, everyone makes mistakes that is why they are called accidents. Still, it sounds like you should have paid a bit more attention and possibly overtook him sooner. It was careless, we all do it (not wanting to sound all high and mighty) but irlforum is right, if someone gets hurt then they have a right to seek compensation.

And no, I don't mean thousands of euro in some injury-lawyers-4-u kind of deal, I mean compensation for a visit to the GP and the buckled wheel.

I ignored advice about claiming for an injury I suffered as a result of being in a car pile-up a few years ago. In hindsight I should have gone to see my GP, got physio and whatever else was necessary because my back still isn't right. Yeah, the guy who caused the accident also made a mistake, but anyone seeking compensation in this country is met with lots of headshaking and cries of "compo culture", "making it harder on our premiums", etc.

Get yourself looked at, get it sorted and have her pay for it. That's her responsibility. Don't feel guilty about it either, it may come back and haunt you (that's a general statement btw, I know the OP says he did not sustain any injuries).

SleepDoc

Report them. The Guards take it pretty seriously. A couple of Sundays ago I was cycling home from work down Grace Park Road when a car shot past me, his wing mirror missing me by about an inch. There was no oncoming car, he could easily have given me a couple of metres of room. As sure as night follows day I caught up with him at the lights and asked him whether he was always an idiot or just that particular day. He gave me the finger and drove off.

I noted his reg and I reported him that morning. Guard was very professional, looking him up on their system as I waited. Gave me two options, one make a statement and it might go further or two, they give him a verbal warning. I chose the verbal warning (perhaps in retrospect I should have made a statement).

Moral is, I felt better and hopefully he got a nice shock when the guards called.

Rookster

Glad you are OK! I have been cycling on public roads for the past thirty years and I still avoid roundabouts. Death-traps! Simply because drivers do not know how to use them.

Block (8

My cycle route takes me through a big roundabout which I'm always petrified!!!

Not only that the route I'm coming from has a bit of an incline and I'm still useless in my cleats

Tried once crossing the exits on foot carrying my bike but with cleats on I kinda feel stoopid

Glad to hear your alright though op luckily I haven't any incident but I'll be just as confused in what to do like yourself.

Chips Lovell

I'd never avoid roundabouts. Having said that, a lot of motorists seem to be clueless about using them, i.e. not indicating, using the wrong lane etc. There are also a few who seem to think cyclists don't count as traffic, for example people who would overtake you on a (single lane) roundabout or pull out in front of you as if you weren't there.

Turbulent Bill

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Roundabouts are awful. I can take a lot of them as fast or faster than a car, yet people still fail to yield right of way, attempt to undertake me, etc. in addition to the usual list of being in the wrong lane, not indicating.

Glad you are ok OP.

Didn't a guy say recently in the Netherlands bikes have the right of way on roundabouts? I think something like this should be implemented, the cycle lanes that cut across some of them are lethal. They either put you with your back to traffic as you cross them or in a position where people cannot see you. Stopping 3 or 4 times in road cleats trying to cross a roundabout is not only annoying but quite dangerous.

I do a few things to make roundabouts safer on the bike, but there doesn't seem to be a foolproof way. Always take the lane on approach, same as if you're driving. You can probably accelerate quicker than a car onto small, tight roundabouts, so it's fairly easy to get a space, but on bigger ones you just have to bide your time. Eye-ball the drivers at and approaching every exit you pass, so you can see how aware they are of you. Signal well in advance of your exit, looking over your left shoulder to check for anyone undertaking. Pray that it all works out etc.

The OP's case sounds like a classic example of the driver checking for approaching cars, but not for anything past her exit.

I've cycled on Dutch roundabouts, they have a cycle lane roundabout around the normal one and vehicles have to yield to cyclists on this. It works well there, but I can't see Irish drivers following suit - it would be equivalent to yielding to pedestrians crossing a traffic island at a roundabout exit.

enda1

I used to take the Walkingstown roundabout too and from work one summer.

I loved it! Spiced up a boring cycle.

Particularly on those days when you'd be a bit hungover and the cycle was tough, the boost of adrenaline received on a successful transit of that roundabout, coming out with you life always made the second half of the journey just whiz by!

I heart roundabouts

tomasrojo

+1 on eye contact. Negotiation is important -- that is, making eye contact and making sure they've seen you and are not going to freak out when you take the lane.

As for the "accident", I think that the preferred term in law enforcement circles is now "collision", because almost always they're somebody's fault, while the word "accident" implies that it's no-one's fault.

That is, if Hot Fuzz is to be believed. I think it's right on this point. Oddly enough the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents now avoids the term; you think they'd change their name!

blorg

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I've cycled on Dutch roundabouts, they have a cycle lane roundabout around the normal one and vehicles have to yield to cyclists on this. It works well there, but I can't see Irish drivers following suit - it would be equivalent to yielding to pedestrians crossing a traffic island at a roundabout exit.

There are a few roundabouts here with a cycle lane on the road around the roundabout and drivers don't tend to yield, no. No chance they would if the cycle roundabout was separate, but then the general design here of separate cycle tracks is the bike always has to yield to anything. You really have to take the lane on a roundabout and on a multi-lane one position yourself in the right lane as otherwise drivers will cut you off exiting.

Overature

i really would use a roundabout if you were a cyclist

roc_racer

I never avoid roundabouts but I do make myself big - I try to ride in the traffic stream and I always try to make eye contact with drivers coming from exits in front of me. If there's no eye contact I start to slow...

Civilian_Target

Yes, you should have reported it to the guards. She may have been a nice person, but ultimately it was caused by bad driving where she broke the law. Just because you report it doesn't mean you have to press charges.

Also, you should always take her details. That way, if you find your wheel is bent or you feel shaky the next morning, you can contact her politely, and failing that, you can contact her insurance.

Finally, don't let that put you off using roundabouts. Like Roc_Racer says, make yourself big!

chakattack

enda1 wrote: »

I used to take the Walkingstown roundabout too and from work one summer.

I loved it! Spiced up a boring cycle.

Particularly on those days when you'd be a bit hungover and the cycle was tough, the boost of adrenaline received on a successful transit of that roundabout, coming out with you life always made the second half of the journey just whiz by!

I heart roundabouts

+1 You can't beat a motorpaced sprint off the descent of a big roundabout knowing that you need to keep up with traffic to not be bullied into an unsafe position at the side of the lane. Perfect interval training on the way to work.

Tau

Civilian_Target wrote: »

Also, you should always take her details. That way, if you find your wheel is bent or you feel shaky the next morning, you can contact her politely, and failing that, you can contact her insurance.

How do you contact her insurance if she's not cooperating?

When people say exchange details are we talking about taking down most of the details on the insurance disc?

blorg

Tau wrote: »

How do you contact her insurance if she's not cooperating?

When people say exchange details are we talking about taking down most of the details on the insurance disc?

Name, address, phone number, registration, make/model/colour, insurance company, policy number.

If a driver isn't co-operating for (serious) injuries I would go to the Personal Injuries Assessment Board and they will contact the insurer. Damage to the bike contact the insurer yourself.

SerialComplaint

Velo Bro wrote: »

I saw red and made the international signs of “I’m reading your number plate and calling the Garda (In hindsight it probably looked like I was attempting the YMCA)

ROFL.

SleepDoc wrote: »

Guard was very professional, looking him up on their system as I waited. Gave me two options, one make a statement and it might go further or two, they give him a verbal warning. I chose the verbal warning (perhaps in retrospect I should have made a statement).

I always go with the formal statement for anything that I've gone to the bother of reporting to the Gardai. Without this, I fear that many complaints are 'filed' in the bin with no follow up. If you do make a statement, there is a record on paper and they have to do some kind of follow up.

IM0

whats that one in Paris with the five lanes around the roundabout again? place de bastille/republic or something..anyway couple of years ago cycle touring france I had to run the gauntlet of this one..laden with about 30kg of baggage on bike panniers in the evening...with cops [gendarmes] looking at/near me :eek::eek:

that was one for the grandkids! it was about 30-40m across [size], and was also mildly cobbled :rolleyes:

I just entered it and went through staring the cars out of it who came from my left and just kept going [with a look of I have a bomb and if you knock me off were all done so best just leave me to it:cool:], their lanes were not even marked ffs, complete nightmare :eek:, but I survived and since then when I come to roundabouts its "pfft...what roundabout!"

Goodtimes!

CramCycle

Tau wrote: »

How do you contact her insurance if she's not cooperating?

License plate to the Gardaí and you can get their insurers, owners name and address. I don't think they are meant too but they did for me when I reported it to the station.

spurscormac

me@ucd wrote: »

whats that one in Paris with the five lanes around the roundabout again? place de bastille/republic or something..anyway couple of years ago cycle touring france I had to run the gauntlet of this one..laden with about 30kg of baggage on bike panniers in the evening...with cops [gendarmes] looking at/near me :eek::eek:

that was one for the grandkids! it was about 30-40m across [size], and was also mildly cobbled :rolleyes:

I just entered it and went through staring the cars out of it who came from my left and just kept going [with a look of I have a bomb and if you knock me off were all done so best just leave me to it:cool:], their lanes were not even marked ffs, complete nightmare :eek:, but I survived and since then when I come to roundabouts its "pfft...what roundabout!"

Goodtimes!

Thats the one at the Arc de Triomphe, can't remember the name of it, but yeah, its unmarked and crazy.
Have always heard that your car insurance is void on that roundabout, but thats probably an urban myth.

Was there a number of years ago with her good self, went to use the pedestrian underpass to get over to the Arc itself, but they were locking the gates cos it was late (10pm or so).

Took a notion that we weren't gonna be stopped and so we ran the gauntlet across the road to get there. :eek:

Now that was an experience, we then realised we had to do it again to get back.

doozerie

Probably not the best number to use if reporting an actual collision, but the Garda Traffic Watch service on 1890 205 805 is for reporting bad and dangerous driving generally. They'll ask you if you want to give your details (not sure what happens, if anything, if you don't) and ultimately if they think the issue is serious they'll ask you if you are willing to make an official statement so they can bring the person(s) to court. If you reckon you'll be willing to give a statement, then bear in mind that it may be days or weeks before they call you in to make the statement so it is a good idea to write down your account of what happened for your own benefit while it is still fresh in your mind - it is very easy to forget some of the details very quickly, even important details.

Also, try to find someone at the scene that witnessed the event so that they can be called upon too - a witness can make all the difference if it ends up as your word against that of the driver. If no-one steps forward at the scene to offer themselves as a witness, then note down the registrations of some of the cars whose drivers might have witnessed it and the gardai can contact them later to invite them to give their account of the incident.

I tried to dig out some further info on the Garda Traffic Watch service just now as I was wondering whether it is standard that they have a chat with reported drivers without going the full legal route. I couldn't find much, but I did find this list of useful contact details on the Dublin Cycling Campaign site. It's a useful reference assuming it is up to date.

mr_staggerlee

don't know if anybody knows this one, used to live in engerland in nottingham. roundabout coming from town onto maid marian way ,it's on an incline dual carriageway crossing it, need to be very nippy to get pass the second lane before the traffic comes down on top of you.
long story short , never made it got carried about 50 metes before being flung off.
very nice women took me home and to hospital and reported herself to the police. l genuinely felt sorry for her (no charges took). Their not all bad these motorists.
voted one of britains worst streets 2002