Sf2 / Sf3: Which is better/ more acclaimed/ more HYPE?

Placebo

It wasnt to do with balance, it was more to do with the technical aspects and execution of the game. E.g: when usa team first went to SBO with justin wong, 3 vs 3 , ohnuki's chun alone eliminates the whole team.

Dreddybajs

Evilsbane wrote: »

Why is that a good thing? If there's TOO much of a skill gap, then the match won't be fun for either player. It's nice that one can become elite, but one can go too far with elitism.

If you can have more levels of skill in the game, the game is almost by definition deeper. elitism has nothing to do with it

Azza

Being deeper does not make a game better.

ST is clearly less deep than SF 3 or SF 4.

There is more gameplay mechanics to master in both of those games than ST. Yet many people prefer it over 3 and 4.

Some people like it simply becauses its faster and requires a higher level of dexterity than its successors. Matches are over much quicker, single attacks do much more damage. There is a tactical/mind games aspect to the game as well but its not as deep as its sucessors. Still people who like the game take the package as a whole.

Dreddybajs

I didn't say it made it better, ST is better than SF4 for reasons other than that :pac:

Azza

Care to elborate on them?

Dreddybajs

Faster, rewards aggression more than SF4, meaties are more viable, no comeback mechanic, a more comprehensive poking/footsie game (sf4 footsies are imo limited by the focus system), 0 frame throws and throw softening rather than full teching (providing more incentive to play aggressively and go for a throw), and probably a lot more but that's just off the top of my head.

Pretty much the only things I don't like about it are the huge strength of the mixup characters' mixups (ST claw primarily), the execution barrier with regard to reversals etc. (though honestly this is something that you can learn with time), and the silliness of some supers whether because they're too strong (Boxer), or useless (plenty of characters I'm sure, though the grapplers come to mind).

Ramza

There's just as much stuff if not more to master in ST than there is in SF4/SFIII. I don't want this thread to go OT but yeah. I wouldn't agree at all that SFIV is as deep as ST (don't know about SFIII, maybe same)

Azza

Dreddybajs wrote:

Faster, rewards aggression more than SF4, meaties are more viable, no comeback mechanic, a more comprehensive poking/footsie game (sf4 footsies are imo limited by the focus system), 0 frame throws and throw softening rather than full teching (providing more incentive to play aggressively and go for a throw), and probably a lot more but that's just off the top of my head.

Agreed with the first 2 points. However they are just personal preferences, some prefer the slower pace of SF IV.

Disagree on meaties. I think they are viable, yes reversals are easier but after you punish a few whiffed block reversals, your opponents will stop doing them ever time. Good players won't reversal every time as they know how risky it is. I use meaties alot.

Agree with third point, but as you know not all Ultra's are created equal, so depending on match ups some are almost never used and thus create no comeback mechanic. However this is probably my biggest gripe about SF IV.

Totally disagree with your opinion on the footsies/poking game. FA are just another variable to deal with in the ground game. If you have a focus spaming opponent, then empty jumps and dash throws are great for dealing with them. There is so many other factors like some characters having useless focus attacks. Others have great armour breakers. The range and speed of a poke versus the range of the focus attack etc etc. IMO footsies are fine in SF 4 series.

As for throws. I prefer the system in 3 and 4. I like teching throws. Takes more skill than the throw softens in ST. Learning delayed teching, and the correct frame traps to deal with delayed or mash teching is something I much prefer over the simple mash throw and throw soften approach of ST.

Dreddybajs

Azza wrote: »

Agreed with the first 2 points. However they are just personal preferences, some prefer the slower pace of SF IV.

Well yeah, it's all personal preferences, I'm not claiming that any opinion I hold is objective.

Disagree on meaties. I think they are viable, yes reversals are easier but after you punish a few whiffed block reversals, your opponents will stop doing them ever time. Good players won't reversal every time as they know how risky it is. I use meaties alot.

Backdash invunerablility contributes as much as the reversals, anyway I think meaties are much stronger in ST especially when you can make reversals safe in sf4.

empty jumps and dash throws, great armour breakers....IMO footsies are fine in SF 4 series.

What do these have to do with footsies?

As for throws. I prefer the system in 3 and 4. I like teching throws. Takes more skill than the throw softens in ST. Learning delayed teching, and the correct frame traps to deal with delayed or mash teching is something I much prefer over the simple mash throw and throw soften approach of ST.

Fair enough, just a matter of preference

Ramza

Mash throws are very hard to mash/escape properly, regardless of how stupid that sounds :pac:

But yeah like said before I just prefer other games to SFIV(reasons which we are debating now and others), still doesn't take away from it at all being a good/enjoyable game

Sisko

the throw system in 2 was vastly inferior to the later games imo. I'm actually surprised to hear people prefer it.

Azza

Dreddybajs wrote:

Backdash invunerablility contributes as much as the reversals, anyway I think meaties are much stronger in ST especially when you can make reversals safe.

Backdash can't be dealt with by option selects. I know I'm stating the obvious but cornered trap players won't back dash if they know whats good for them.

As you said you can FADC reversals to make them safe. But this comes at the considerable price of normally 3 bars of super meter. Again its match up dependant the shoto's have very strong reversals that lead to big damage, while other characeters have allow them to escape while other characters have nothing. Its just the most widely used characters are the ones with good reversals. Mind tactics come to play with baiting reversals. A player needs to know his opponents wake up options and what level of meter he has and weigh up the risks.

Dreddybajs wrote:

What do these have to do with footsies?

Stating the obvious again but if someone is hurting your footsies game with FA then mix things up, you don't just continue doing something thats getting you killed, yes going airborne isn't footsies but if makes your opponent stop using focus attacks then you can go back to footsies. Some speicals are used in footsie wars and break armour or hit twice and dash throwing is a part of footsies.

Ramza

I liked the throw system in two, two button throws lead to a somewhat controversial matter in FGs ; the kara throw(I know alpha 3 used two button throws but kara throw wasn't until 3s). Not to go off topic but some people frown on kara throws, as far as my opinion goes, I'm fine with them I guess, given I played Ken in Vanilla, but still they're pretty stupid. Even though SFIII introduced throw teching I still think throws should be guaranteed damage, but still should be allowed to be softened

As far as focus goes I'm not a fan of it. FADC only benefits a few characters and it's pretty useless as far as the rest of the cast go. My dislike of FADC ties in with that of the meter system in SFIV. Also, footsies being being based on reaction (i.e ; playing footsies is using your pokes to counter or bait your opponents), the focus system seems to sit somewhere uneven in that regard. Giving someone an option to cop out of footsies is stupid imo. Jumping and dash-in throwing shouldn't really need to have anything to do with it as footsies should be all based on the ground and your limbs and reaction speed. I'm middle of the fence as far as focus goes, and then you also have character who have bad focus attacks in that regard, so it seems like a double negative really

Yreval

Another fan of SF2's throws here - I think SF4 would be improved quite a bit if ST's throw system (or even HF's, since backdashes might even remove the necessity of teching/softening IMO) was transplanted directly into the game. Strong throws encourage attacking play and improve character balance.