Doing medicine? ... can any medical students advise?

rosa_o

i'm not doing the leaving this year but i have a few questions anyway.
for all those people doing medicine is it all its cracked up to be and for all you new doctors out there is it like throwong away your twenties to the books? i want to do medicine but it's just sounds so tough so confirmation would be helpful and also does anyone should i have a preference over trinity or ucd? thanks.:)

A Neurotic

Hi,

I just finished first year medicine in Trinity. I had the same reservations as you going in, but first year really wasn't so bad. Personally, I had a bit of difficulty initially adjusting to college academically, but I would have been the same in any course and the vast majority of people in my year got on grand without having to slave over the books all year. We all had a great time and it's not as hard as you might think to have a good social life. Bear in mind I can speak only for first year - I imagine it could well be a different story in later years!

There's a good Health Sciences Education forum on boards that you might find helpful. Good luck!

Piste

I'm sort of the same as A_Neurotic. I had a lot of trouble adjusting academically to medicine. As one 4th Med put it, "welcome to being average". If you get into medicine you were probably one of the people with the highest results in your year. You were probably always "the smart one". If you do medicine you will be in a year where everyone is "the smart one". Suddenly you're not in the 99th percentile. Suddenly you're just looking for 50% so you can scrape the pass instead of 90%, which is what you'll have gotten throughout school. It's a big change.

There is an academic committment, but you can balance yourself. Ideally you should study every day for a bit so you're not living in the library (like me) for the month before the examsl. In practicality what happens is people piss about all semester, go out loads and then cram to bits before the exams. I've been spending 6-10 hours a day in the library for the past month, I think I took one day off. There's a definite ethos of work hard play hard though, I think the whole year's planning to go on a 4/5 day binge when the exams finish.

You get very close to your college friends, given that you'll see thm every day and soend all day in the library with them. It can be hard to stay in contact with your friends from school, especially if they go to a different college.

zam

What are the hours like in first year? Everyone I ask says something different

stainluss

A Neurotic wrote: »

Hi,

I just finished first year medicine in Trinity. I had the same reservations as you going in, but first year really wasn't so bad. Personally, I had a bit of difficulty initially adjusting to college academically, but I would have been the same in any course and the vast majority of people in my year got on grand without having to slave over the books all year. We all had a great time and it's not as hard as you might think to have a good social life. Bear in mind I can speak only for first year - I imagine it could well be a different story in later years!

There's a good Health Sciences Education forum on boards that you might find helpful. Good luck!

So could you go out 2/3 nights per week?

Piste

zam wrote: »

What are the hours like in first year? Everyone I ask says something different

In RCSI you're looking at about 15

Piste

stainluss wrote: »

So could you go out 2/3 nights per week?

You could yeah, especially if you're the kind of person who can function on little sleep and get up for college after a night out (I'm sadly not one of these people )

A Neurotic

zam wrote: »

What are the hours like in first year? Everyone I ask says something different

In TCD it was generally around 23 or so, but it varied a little bit every week with labs and tutorials and whatnot.

stainluss wrote:

So could you go out 2/3 nights per week?

A friend of mine managed a Platinum week - went 8 nights in a row and still attended every single lecture

As with Piste, I couldn't really go out that often as I had mostly 9am starts and I'm generally immovable after a night out. It'd be up to you to decide if you're able for it!

straight_As

Piste wrote: »

In RCSI you're looking at about 15

I'm hoping to med next year and have a few questions and if you could answer even some I'd appreciate it a lot.

Is that for premed or 1st med?

What's the general atmosphere in Surgeons? Is there still a decent mix of people even though it's all med and paramed? I know there's a really diverse ethnic mix, but I mean in terms of interests. Not all just the stereotypical driven med student?

Also, what's it like in terms of placements? Do you get early exposure? I've heard that RCSI send some of their students down to the peripherals for placement. I don't have any problem with peripherals, but I live in Dublin and couldn't afford to move out so do they help financially in that regard?

Is the course systems based or is it more bichem, physiology, anatomy, etc, each taught individually?

Cheers in advance

stainluss

I know you get an MB (Bachelor of Medicine) after college, but do you get the MD (Doctor of Medicine) after the 1 year internship or do you have to do something else?

Piste

straight_As wrote: »

I'm hoping to med next year and have a few questions and if you could answer even some I'd appreciate it a lot.

Is that for premed or 1st med?

1st Med. No idea what the hours are like for premed.

straight_As wrote: »

What's the general atmosphere in Surgeons? Is there still a decent mix of people even though it's all med and paramed? I know there's a really diverse ethnic mix, but I mean in terms of interests. Not all just the stereotypical driven med student?

It's competitive, almost everyone is highly motivated and driven, though it only really shows around exam time. There's a big mix of people with loads of interests, there are very few of the kind of people who study all the time and rarely socialise. Not sure where that stereotype came from as I haven't seen much of it myself! Having an international mix is interesting, though people tend to stick with people from their own countries a lot.

straight_As wrote: »

Also, what's it like in terms of placements? Do you get early exposure? I've heard that RCSI send some of their students down to the peripherals for placement. I don't have any problem with peripherals, but I live in Dublin and couldn't afford to move out so do they help financially in that regard?

Yeah in 4th med you're shunted around the country with a hospital buddy- somebody from your class you do all your placements with and live with (it can make or break friendships so I'm told!). RCSI owns a load of apartments in Waterford and I think Galway too and pays for accomodation for the other peripheral hospitals, you won't be expected to pay to move out, you'd never get a lease for a few weeks at a time anyway! As for early exposure you're up in Beaumont from the 2nd semester of 2nd med (the start of Intermediate Cycle 1). Though you're not actually in the hospital, but in a lecture theatre on the hospital site. It means you're by consultants who will come by to teach and I think they sometimes bring patients in.

straight_As wrote: »

Is the course systems based or is it more bichem, physiology, anatomy, etc, each taught individually?

Cheers in advance

It's all systems based. I think UCD's the same and Trinity is individual subjects. I've never seen the individual subjects system, but I think I'd prefer the system we have. It's much easier having everything integrated as it all links together.

stainluss wrote: »

I know you get an MB (Bachelor of Medicine) after college, but do you get the MD (Doctor of Medicine) after the 1 year internship or do you have to do something else?

An MD is slightly different here and in the US. In the US you graduate with an MD, which is the same as our Bachelor of Medicine. To get an MD here you have to do a Ph.D and/or have published research. After your intern year you get to register with the medical council.

theowen

A Neurotic wrote: »

Hi,

I just finished first year medicine in Trinity. I had the same reservations as you going in, but first year really wasn't so bad. Personally, I had a bit of difficulty initially adjusting to college academically, but I would have been the same in any course and the vast majority of people in my year got on grand without having to slave over the books all year.

Piste wrote: »

I'm sort of the same as A_Neurotic. I had a lot of trouble adjusting academically to medicine..

Could yous expand on how you had to adjust academically?

stainluss

Im great at Biology and Physics in LC, but dont do Chemistry.

I chose NUIG so Chem isnt needed anyways.

I was just wondering, is most of the work/exams you do in college similar to LC Biology or LC Chemistry? (I know its much harder than either but which one is the work more similar to?)

Chemistry looks a bit nasty..I could v. well be wrong though.

Piste

theowen wrote: »

Could yous expand on how you had to adjust academically?

Ok well for the LC all the information is given to you. You have your book, if you know the book you'll get an A1. Also at LC level everything 's just a small step up from JC and explained in detail. In college I found all these terms and explanations that I didn't get but we were assumed to know, I'd try and do the recommended reading at the end of each lecture but get completely bogged down in detail. I never knew how much detail was needed to know. I found the lecture notes very difficult to study from if I hadn't taken notes myself, I got lost quickly and found it very difficult to catch up (I never really did, just scraped the pass in semester 1). It's basically about finding your own learning style which suits the way in which the information is presented. It look me a while to learn how to learn efficiently. This semester I started my proper (as in setting up camp in the library all day every day) study about a month before exams started. I worked out how to understand what was going on and learn the required detail without getting too bogged down, but didn't factor in how much time it would take to learn off the information, as opposed to understanding it and being able to recall it five minutes after reading the lecture (that's where cramming comes in).

I think for next semester I'll do a bit of study every day. For only 15 hours of lectures/practicals I should be able to spare 2/3 hours a day in the library, hopefully it'll reflect in my results (no more barely scraping the pass!)

If I were to give any advice about starting medicine, it's don't leave your lectures if they're big and scary, try to understand them using all the resources you can (youtube is great), it makes learning the following lectures so much easier.

stainluss wrote: »

Im great at Biology and Physics in LC, but dont do Chemistry.

I chose NUIG so Chem isnt needed anyways.

I was just wondering, is most of the work/exams you do in college similar to LC Biology or LC Chemistry? (I know its much harder than either but which one is the work more similar to?)

Chemistry looks a bit nasty..I could v. well be wrong though.

Well there is more of LC biology you can completely disregard (plants, basically!) than LC chemistry, where you need to know all your organic and soem inorganic chemistry. I would have found it much, much harder to do medicine if I didn't have chemistry than if I didn't have biology. Any biology you will have done will be covered in the first slide or two of the lecture anyway. Also biology is easier to just pick up than chemistry, there aren't any complex concepts to grasp (at LC level anyway).

stainluss

Piste wrote: »

I would have found it much, much harder to do medicine if I didn't have chemistry than if I didn't have biology.

I assume you did the 5 year. I think I may be ok as I chose the 6 year program including PreMed (which I hear is just the 3 sciences and some health professional lectures) NUIG.

I think I should have time to pick it up if I go there.

For anyone interested in Medicine, you may like to look at the college test papers here

I understand most of it is gibberish right now, I just enjoy looking at it to get a feel for what the exams are like, I think the Case Study ones are interesting, but probably quite difficult, too:p

sheep-go-baa

stainluss wrote: »

For anyone interested in Medicine, you may like to look at the college test papers here

I understand most of it is gibberish right now, I just enjoy looking at it to get a feel for what the exams are like, I think the Case Study ones are interesting, but probably quite difficult, too:p

I got nerdily excited looking at those! thank you for the motivation to study too!

straight_As

stainluss wrote: »

I assume you did the 5 year. I think I may be ok as I chose the 6 year program including PreMed (which I hear is just the 3 sciences and some health professional lectures) NUIG.

I think I should have time to pick it up if I go there.

For anyone interested in Medicine, you may like to look at the college test papers here

I understand most of it is gibberish right now, I just enjoy looking at it to get a feel for what the exams are like, I think the Case Study ones are interesting, but probably quite difficult, too:p

The amount of essay writing in those exams scared me. I always thought a subject like med would have been less descriptive and more fact, fact, fact. I suppose coherence is important though.

It was pretty exciting actually the way that I could just touch my fingertips off some of the topics. Like for the anatomy of the brain exam, there was something about acetylcholine, which those who do bio will know as a neurotransmitter, but due to the depth of the LC course, not much more.

God, I hope I get in. TIME TO STUDY!

stainluss

straight_As wrote: »

The amount of essay writing in those exams scared me. I always thought a subject like med would have been less descriptive and more fact, fact, fact. I suppose coherence is important though.

I doubt you would be marked for your actual essay writing skills, probably just the actual facts you have in it.. Hopefully anyway:o

Carsinian Thau

stainluss wrote: »

I doubt you would be marked for your actual essay writing skills, probably just the actual facts you have in it.. Hopefully anyway:o

Your understanding of the material will be shown by the way that you write about it. If you just start listing a load of facts, you'll get some marks but if you also discuss them, you'll get more.

zam

So, can I have a reasonable life doing medicine? After experiencing the past couple of months locked up studying I'm not so sure if I want this to be my life for the next 5/6 years and beyond. Will I be able to go out, keep up with my other friends doing other courses...?

Carsinian Thau

zam wrote: »

Will I be able to go out, keep up with my other friends doing other courses...?

Yes, you will be able to go out. No way in hell will you be able to go out as often as your other friends though.

As for having a reasonable life, no, not really. But you'll always have summers free (for the first few years anyway)!

theowen

Carsinian Thau wrote: »

Yes, you will be able to go out. No way in hell will you be able to go out as often as your other friends though.

As for having a reasonable life, no, not really. But you'll always have summers free (for the first few years anyway)!

Are you still glad you did Medicine?

Carsinian Thau

theowen wrote: »

Are you still glad you did Medicine?

For the most part, yes.

But I urge anyone considering it to really think hard about it. It's a big commitment. That said, if it's want you want, it's what you want and if you're meant for it, you'll love it (overall, nothing is perfect).

zam

Carsinian Thau wrote: »

For the most part, yes.

But I urge anyone considering it to really think hard about it. It's a big commitment. That said, if it's want you want, it's what you want and if you're meant for it, you'll love it (overall, nothing is perfect).

Agh. Well, obviously it sounds a lot of work but I suppose if I think about it, everything will require some work and it seems like the only thing that would genuinely interest me...

Has anyone dropped out?

Carsinian Thau

zam wrote: »

Has anyone dropped out?

Yes. Two left for other courses (interestingly, both went to Physics). And three have failed out. A number have also left my year due to needing to repeat but I actually don't know how many.

Also, this:

zam wrote: »

Agh. Well, obviously it sounds a lot of work but I suppose if I think about it, everything will require some work and it seems like the only thing that would genuinely interest me...

is a good attitude to have regarding if you think you want to do med or not.

And remember, if you change your mind when you're in there. You can leave. Medicine is a big commitment but it's also a voluntary one. No-one can make you stay on as a medical student/doctor.

If you think it's want you want, that you can be happy in it and that you'll be able for it, then you should go for it.

stainluss

Carsinian Thau wrote: »

But I urge anyone considering it to really think hard about it. It's a big commitment. That said, if it's want you want, it's what you want and if you're meant for it, you'll love it (overall, nothing is perfect).

Im kind of in two minds about it atm.

Did you always know you wanted to do it?

Like I didnt, but I like the busy atmosphere of a hospital and the thought of being a doctor..

Is it really hard? Like how much time per day should you spend studying (exc. lectures)? Im expecting an A1 in Biology and Physics (dont do Chem, though), would that show suitability in any way?

Carsinian Thau

stainluss wrote: »

Im kind of in two minds about it atm.

Did you always know you wanted to do it?

Like I didnt, but I like the busy atmosphere of a hospital and the thought of being a doctor..

Is it really hard? Like how much time per day should you spend studying (exc. lectures)? Im expecting an A1 in Biology and Physics (dont do Chem, though), would that show suitability in any way?

It's a big decision and it has the feel of "rest of your life" consequences so it'd be natural to have some doubts or to be reluctant to commit yourself to it without a lot of thought.

I didn't know that I always wanted to do it, it happened gradually over time. It's a big decision and needs mature thinking so arriving at a decision should take quite some time (e.g. those who say that they've wanted to "be a doctor since they were four" either made a lucky guess as a child or never properly thought about it again).

The question as to how hard it is is difficult to answer. It's really subjective. I know people that kill themselves with work all year round, never leaving the library, arriving at opening times, leaving when it closes and taking breaks only for lectures. I also know people who do relatively little and still do just fine. Mind you, those who do relatively little do spend a lot of time in the library too!
So really, the amount of time that you should spend studying is enough to allow you to learn as much as possible but less than the amount that will drive you to insanity or abject misery. Only experience will let you decide how much that is.

I got A1s in Physics and Biology and even though I did Chemistry, I was always quite weak at it (something which the foundation med course at NUIG did fix to a certain extent) and I'm still here, which could serve as a good indication for you.

One thing that I really think you should bear in mind is that we have selection criteria for a reason. Sometimes people get in that cannot academically or otherwise handle the course. But that's rare. If you do get in, chances are that you'll be able to handle the workload. It will not be fun and it will not be easy but you'd probably get through it.

The reason why you want to be a doctor will probably have the greatest bearing on your experience in medschool. Bad reason, terrible experience. Good reason, justifiable experience.

stainluss

Could anyone give me an example time table of an intern or other NCHD?

I hear like 60/70 hour week but im not really sure how it divides up. Do you get many weekends off? (I heard your on 1 in 4 but im guessing its more?)

Sorry about all the Q's trying to plan out my life before July 1st on top of all this LC nonsense:p

Carsinian Thau

stainluss wrote: »

Could anyone give me an example time table of an intern or other NCHD?

I hear like 60/70 hour week but im not really sure how it divides up. Do you get many weekends off? (I heard your on 1 in 4 but im guessing its more?)

Sorry about all the Q's trying to plan out my life before July 1st on top of all this LC nonsense:p

I think it depends on the particular speciality you're working with. I'm way too junior to know any of this for certain so I'll ask a friend of mine who will be finishing her internship in about 3/4 weeks (ironically on July 1st too!).

It is important to realise that med training takes 5/6 years (6 years in our cases Stainluss ) so things could be different by the time you get out there. The EWTD is something that springs to mind as having the potential to drastically change the playing field.

theowen

Carsinian Thau wrote: »

I think it depends on the particular speciality you're working with. I'm way too junior to know any of this for certain so I'll ask a friend of mine who will be finishing her internship in about 3/4 weeks (ironically on July 1st too!).

It is important to realise that med training takes 5/6 years (6 years in our cases Stainluss ) so things could be different by the time you get out there. The EWTD is something that springs to mind as having the potential to drastically change the playing field.

I heard about that too! Though I also saw in the same passage of info that these sort of things pop up now and again and are then squashed?

cheesehead

Listen to Piste and Carsinian Thau. It is good advice. I'm a physician in the US, but the training is similar enough across the board.

When given the opportunity to work with med students, I always ask them the same question: "Do you feel 'called' to this profession?" A difficult enough question for a person, particularly a young student. If you can answer affirmatively, it will help when confronted with difficult periods. One makes sacrifices during med school/internship/residency, but many Consultants/(Attendings in the US) will tell you those sacrifices remain, if not increase, after training is completed.

The medical profession offers financial opportunities, but many professions offer financial opportunities. As a bright and motivated student you have your pick of professions. Many times it is easy enough over time to see physicians who are 'called' to the profession and those who are likely doing it for 'other' reasons.

While medical school can be academically challenging, just continue to work hard and you'll be fine. The tricky part to medical school is getting into medical school. It reminds me of a saying we have in medical school here: "What do you call the student who graduates last in medical school? Answer: Doctor

Good luck on your journey