Why such a lack of men only classes?

donfers

loads of female only gyms around and female only classes being offered. indeed the female only muay thai classes thread in TLL inspired this thread as it made me recall some comments from friends a while back. Two of my friends are majorly into their kickboxing and they're forever complaining about some of the girls in the class. The complaints range from the class having to slow down as some of the girls take a lot longer to perform the drills to the guys thinking it's a waste of time sparring with the ladies as they say they deliberately have to lower the aggression/intensity to some of the girls not taking the classes seriously and basically being there to secure a date. I don't know how valid the complaints are but the two guys are genuinely honest and nice guys and have no history of chavinism which is why I was taken aback by their comments.

In light of this do you think it is acceptable, in certain cases, to call for men only classes and do you think such an aspiration would be criticised by certain groups?

Khannie

That doesn't sound like a fighting gym to me. Class never gets slowed down for anyone where I train and nobody's there to secure a date. Also, most of the female fighters in my gym are more experienced than me - some substantially more so! They hit hard and I hit them hard. I learn a lot from them. Obviously I'm not gonna hit a 56KG woman full whack. The purpose of sparring is to get your hit (or combo) in though (or learn where you're making a mess of things), not to hurt your oppontent.

Personally, and I can only speak for my own experience, I wouldn't be arsed with a male only class based on my experience where I train. I mean, I might attend it if it were convenient, but I would have no preference for it.

On the flip side I can see why there's a desire for a ladies only class (on a few fronts). It can be intimidating to walk into a gym with 50 lads and 2 girls for example.

Just my 2c. Hope it helps.

edit: I should say that there is a beginners and a fighters class and when you move up to the fighters class (male or female) you need to be good enough to pad and spar properly....maybe your mates gym has experienced people mixing with inexperienced people and that this is the problem?

edit 2: Starting that thread in tLL did prompt me to consider the same thing as yourself though.

donfers

Khannie wrote: »

That doesn't sound like a fighting gym to me. Class never gets slowed down for anyone where I train and nobody's there to secure a date. Also, most of the female fighters in my gym are more experienced than me - some substantially more so! They hit hard and I hit them hard. I learn a lot from them. Obviously I'm not gonna hit a 56KG woman full whack. The purpose of sparring is to get your hit (or combo) in though (or learn where you're making a mess of things), not to hurt your oppontent.

Personally, and I can only speak for my own experience, I wouldn't be arsed with a male only class based on my experience where I train. I mean, I might attend it if it were convenient, but I would have no preference for it.

On the flip side I can see why there's a desire for a ladies only class (on a few fronts). It can be intimidating to walk into a gym with 50 lads and 2 girls for example.

Just my 2c. Hope it helps.

edit: I should say that there is a beginners and a fighters class and when you move up to the fighters class (male or female) you need to be good enough to pad and spar properly....maybe your mates gym has experienced people mixing with inexperienced people and that this is the problem?

edit 2: Starting that thread in tLL did prompt me to consider the same thing as yourself though.

I understand all that but the point is that the girls who find it intimidating have the option of female only classes whereas the guys who don't want to spar/train with girls don't have that option as male only classes are virtually non-existent. Now, of course you could argue that most of the classes have a large majority of men anyway which is true but the point is why do women have the choice to have a single-sex class and men don't?

Men who don't feel comfortable sharing a class with women surely should have the same rights as women who don't feel comfortable sharing a class with men.

cowzerp

I run Women only Boxing classes because the women wont train with the men, the Main class is actually open to ladies as it would not bother lads at all to train with girls, we have 1 regular lady who trains as part of the main class and its not an issue to her or anyone else..

Women just prefer train without men there, i've been told by them its 1 cause they dont want to look stupid, and 2 that they dont like been sweaty in front of them, strange but just there perogative.

Zombrex

donfers wrote: »

loads of female only gyms around and female only classes being offered. indeed the female only muay thai classes thread in TLL inspired this thread as it made me recall some comments from friends a while back. Two of my friends are majorly into their kickboxing and they're forever complaining about some of the girls in the class. The complaints range from the class having to slow down as some of the girls take a lot longer to perform the drills to the guys thinking it's a waste of time sparring with the ladies as they say they deliberately have to lower the aggression/intensity to some of the girls not taking the classes seriously and basically being there to secure a date. I don't know how valid the complaints are but the two guys are genuinely honest and nice guys and have no history of chavinism which is why I was taken aback by their comments.

In light of this do you think it is acceptable, in certain cases, to call for men only classes and do you think such an aspiration would be criticised by certain groups?

I think there is much less of a market for men only classes which is why you don't see as much of them. Men tend to feel less embarrassed around women than women feel around men.

But I'm sure there are cases when it would be a good idea. Portmarnock golf club only allows men to be members, and while this was challenged in the courts I think the case was thrown out.

Kooli

I'm sure if anyone wanted to set up an all-male fighting class, it would be feasible if there was enough demand for it? Maybe it's a demand issue? Maybe, for the reasons noted in the other replies, men don't generally have a problem training with women.

The problem might arise if you say it's a men-only class because of issues of strength and ability, then you may run into the issue that some women are bound to be stronger or more skilled than some men in the class, and would not like to be excluded from a class that they are able for. They themselves may have the same issues sparring with weaker men and women.

I know somewhere I used to go for yoga used to have a men-only yoga class. I imagine that was because of issues of feeling outnumbered or trying to dispel the image that it's only for girls. No one had an issue with it.

CDfm

I think the world got very PC.Portmarnock Golf Club vs Curves Gym.

As a friend of mine said she "doesnt want men watching her put her arse back where it used to be".

Anyone suggesting Men Only anything -would be lynched- all for rampant female voyeurism.

Khannie

donfers wrote: »

the point is why do women have the choice to have a single-sex class and men don't?

Gotcha. The answer to that is straightforward....demand is just not there.

Silverfish

Afaik there was a male only version of Curves called Cuts or something.

There was one here beside the Curves gym, not sure if it's still there. If not, it was probably due to demand not being there for it.

Zombrex

donfers wrote: »

I understand all that but the point is that the girls who find it intimidating have the option of female only classes whereas the guys who don't want to spar/train with girls don't have that option as male only classes are virtually non-existent. Now, of course you could argue that most of the classes have a large majority of men anyway which is true but the point is why do women have the choice to have a single-sex class and men don't?

Men do have the choice (see Portmarnock Golf Course), they just seem to not want to avail of it.

Again I think men are a lot less self conscious about doing things in front of women than women are of doing them in front of men.

I remember my female flat mate was sitting around watching TV one day when my friends came over. She was wearing makeup and was dressed in nice proper clothes (not like she was in her PJs) but she had on flip flops. When she heard my friends arrive she went running upstairs and came back wearing shoes. I thought it was bizarre but it obvious mattered to her.

Zombrex

Silverfish wrote: »

Afaik there was a male only version of Curves called Cuts or something.

There was one here beside the Curves gym, not sure if it's still there. If not, it was probably due to demand not being there for it.

I would have thought the whole point of joining a gym would be to perv' on da ladies ... maybe I'm why Curves exists :P

CDfm

Khannie wrote: »

Gotcha. The answer to that is straightforward....demand is just not there.

I think its even simpler.

Men dont think that way. It would never occur to me to ask the question if something is men only and I would never assume it to be.

So yes there is a demand from women for segregated gyms etc but for most men it is lower down the scale of priorities.

It follows the selfish rule of economics

https://www.msu.edu/~choijay/etiquette.pdf

sam34

CDfm wrote: »

Anyone suggesting Men Only anything -would be lynched

weight watchers run men only classes all over the country :pac:

CDfm

sam34 wrote: »

weight watchers run men only classes all over the country :pac:

Thats sad. I was right just like Wicknight said - women go to perv

Its all about the eye candy.

donfers

Wicknight wrote: »

Again I think men are a lot less self conscious about doing things in front of women than women are of doing them in front of men.

I think perhaps this is the key point, however I think the precedent being set by these types of classes could lead somewhere bad

CDfm

donfers wrote: »

I think perhaps this is the key point, however I think the precedent being set by these types of classes could lead somewhere bad

there are absolutely loads of women only events, clubs , parenting courses and what have you.

Other than weight watchers for men what do you have.

So there already is a precedent set.It has already happened on parenting courses.

I dont want to really get heavy on it -but you are already there.

donfers

CDfm wrote: »

there are absolutely loads of women only events, clubs , parenting courses and what have you.

Other than weight watchers for men what do you have.

So there already is a precedent set.It has already happened on parenting courses.

I dont want to really get heavy on it -but you are already there.

you're absolutely right and it is extending into other areas

many times I've wanted to rent a room but tenants/landlord wanted female only and of course you see ladies nights at nightclubs where they get free drinks or entry, nobody bats an eyelid at this stuff but imagine the furore if some nightclub said men free tonight or a landlord turned away a girl coz he wanted a guy

you can go on about demand and market and all that stuff till the cows come home but discriminating based on gender alone because it's somehow inconvenient for you to have somebody of the opposite gender around is just plain wrong but it seems men are fair game for this carry-on

CDfm

Really I can get why a bunch of girls would want to share house with girls.

I listened to Adrian McCabe the then reigning King of the Culchies being asked why couldnt women enter the competition and he said they could but a woman cant win until the irish Countrywomans Association allow male members.The KOC really is a charity fundraising thing but thats the rule apparently.

I have heard of a guy single parent being asked to leave a single parents course as a woman objected.

So when the Womens Movement start walking the walk and talking the talk of egailtarianism you wont get it as they dont get it.

BTW I no more think Curves should be ioopen to all than King of the Culchies. It wouldnt feel right. Some things you dont **** with.

Mackman

Ive no problem with the women only clubs. ive no interest in going to curves

What i do have a problem with is the double standard, as was mentioned already. If men were to try and have men only places, there would be women up in arms about it.

Im aware that not all women are like that, but there are enough to cause an upset.

IMO thats the reason there arent more mens clubs, people dont want the hassle

CDfm

A good example of the hassle is the 40 foot Dun Laoighaire which was a male nude swimming spot until a women invasion a few years back.

Wild horses wouldnt drag me there to start with but this tiny minority community of male naturalists became a battle ground for womens rights -"I want to swim there because men swim there"

Jeez -what a disaster. Trampling on other peoples rights changed the facility and that was that.

The 40 Foot Named not for its size but because the 40th Foot Regiment of the British army who used to be stationed in a battery above it. The hardier swimmers use this rocky, natural swimming pool all year round, and the hardiest of them all at the traditional Christmas-morning dip. The Forty Foot was a men-only swimming hole for years, where nude bathing was the rule. Times being what they are, women and families are now allowed and the bathing place has now assumed a new atmosphere - and a new modesty ensues! A nearby sign reads: "togs required - by order". If you still want to bathe au naturel, note that a small section is reserved for nude swimming.

EDIT -It just occured to me that the male nude swimming thing was a tad homo erotic. Maybe the high profile campaign at the time had a nasty little subtext.

If homosexuals want men only facilities I don't see why not.

cowzerp

CDfm wrote: »

A good example of the hassle is the 40 foot Dun Laoighaire which was a male nude swimming spot until a women invasion a few years back.

Wild horses wouldnt drag me there to start with but this tiny minority community of male naturalists became a battle ground for womens rights -"I want to swim there because men swim there"

Jeez -what a disaster. Trampling on other peoples rights changed the facility and that was that.

Im not a nudist but your perry winkle would certainly not be in all its glory getting into the 40 foot, i'd probably be embarrased with my inverted pee wee in that water!!

Although the presence of women might fix that, double edged sword me thinks!! im staying away

CDfm

cowzerp wrote: »

Im not a nudist but your perry winkle would certainly not be in all its glory getting into the 40 foot, i'd probably be embarrased with my inverted pee wee in that water!!

Although the presence of women might fix that, double edged sword me thinks!! im staying away

Me neither - but after many years I think the 40 foot now makes sense to me and why it was men only.

It was about discretion.

If homosexuals want men only why not.

goose2005

CDfm wrote: »

Really I can get why a bunch of girls would want to share house with girls.

I can get why a bunch of whites would want to share house with whites. You don't want "the other sort" ruining everything with their smelly food and dirty habits. :rolleyes:

CDfm

goose2005 wrote: »

I can get why a bunch of whites would want to share house with whites. You don't want "the other sort" ruining everything with their smelly food and dirty habits. :rolleyes:

Nah its more like putting folk musicians with rockers you end up with Progressive Rock :eek:

Some people dont mix like christians and stoners never work in a house share.

" Lord -thank you for the food we eat & Lenny wants us to give a special thanks for the hash cakes

People like to be with people they have things in common with.

Khannie

goose2005 wrote: »

I can get why a bunch of whites would want to share house with whites. You don't want "the other sort" ruining everything with their smelly food and dirty habits. :rolleyes:

Really bad comparison to be fair. Nobody would deny the differences between men and women are many and varied whereas white and non-white...well....it's just the colour of your skin.

CDfm

Khannie wrote: »

Really bad comparison to be fair. Nobody would deny the differences between men and women are many and varied whereas white and non-white...well....it's just the colour of your skin.

+1