The opinions of others

MJRS

I don't mean/want/intend this to be a continuation of the After Hours thread on same-sex adoption, but jesus, I can't believe how much it gets me down to read that thread and the arguments against gay adoption... Well, not all of them, I can see where some of them are coming from, and even saw one of them change their mind based on the thread, but some of the things posted... Beyond being insulted or whatever, I can't believe how much it upset me to see, put in words, what I guess I always dreaded being the worst case scenario for me. I know there was people doing great work in that thread, and I tried to too, but jesus...

I guess I'm asking, how much do you let the opinion of others affect you? How do you stop it affecting you? Feeling properly despised just because of what you want to do with your penis or vagina? I just...

Links234

More than anything, it's a feeling of disappointment. Some of the opinions on that thread are what I expect from the ignorant kid on the street, the type you expect not to know any better. But people on the internet really should know better, and really should be ashamed of themselves.

Dwn Wth Vwls

There will always be ignorant opinions, but they're heavily influenced by our upbringing. Look at the attached chart, everything changes slowly.

Annasopra

I kind of take a different slant on that thread - from what I remember a similar thread a few years ago was way more homophobic, It actually impressed me that there were so many people on our side this time - and I see that as quite a positive thing

Did the opinions on there get to me?
Yes - I was at the point of screaming at some of them, however this is the internet - most people won't say that stuff to your face and a lot of them are trolls deliberately trying to provoke

Goodshape

If it's a genuine opinion - not just ingrained bigoted hatred - then I'd usually try to remain calm and debate the issue.

Particularly with regards the adoption debate I guess I just accept that it can make people uncomfortable. It may-or-may-not be bad for children? Crikey... let's not gamble on that one and just leave things how they are! It's easier to say "no" without thinking too much about it. When I have managed to engage in debate/discussion on that one, I usually manage to at least convince them to think more about it with an open mind. Changed them from a "no" to an "I don't know".


And call me old and grumpy (I'm only 26!) but I just wouldn't put much stock in anything from After Hours. (the poll is 57% in favour though!)

shay_562

I'm honestly surprised that the thread got such a pro-gay response. Majority in favour of unrestricted adoption, another quarter in favour of it where there's some biological link, and most of the ones who were against it were more of the "What if it's bad for the kids?" school of thought than the "Gheys are teh EVILS!" one. A few people in the thread seemed to be somewhat swayed when people actually started quoting empircal evidence from the USA that kids in gay households don't grow up any better or worse than kids in straight households; the longer that time goes on with empirical evidence mounting to show that gay adoption doesn't harm anyone, the more people will be swayed as long as they're starting from a rational viewpoint. When Donal Og Cusack came out, there were a lot of fairly awful things said over in the GAA forum; I'd see that After Hours thread as hugely enlightened by comparison.

Iwasfrozen

MJRS wrote: »

I don't mean/want/intend this to be a continuation of the After Hours thread on same-sex adoption, but jesus, I can't believe how much it gets me down to read that thread and the arguments against gay adoption... Well, not all of them, I can see where some of them are coming from, and even saw one of them change their mind based on the thread, but some of the things posted... Beyond being insulted or whatever, I can't believe how much it upset me to see, put in words, what I guess I always dreaded being the worst case scenario for me. I know there was people doing great work in that thread, and I tried to too, but jesus...

I guess I'm asking, how much do you let the opinion of others affect you? How do you stop it affecting you? Feeling properly despised just because of what you want to do with your penis or vagina? I just...

What a horrible attitude you have OP. That anyone who has a problem with gay adoption must be anti-homosexual.

You are forgetting that the vast majority of those against gay adoption have the interests of the child in their mind. They don't care about how you so vulgarly stated, "what you want to do with your penis or vagina". Grow up, the world does not revolve around you.

Also I must say I am disappointed at your attitude towards those expressing their opinions on an internet forum that provides them a medium to do so. You seem to believe that those who don't agree with you should just sit in the corner and shut up.

Now I'm not in the mood to turn this into a debate about the virtues of gay adoption before anyone tries but I think you should look up the word hypocrite* OP.

Or is that a word you've reserved for those who disagree with you?

Annasopra

IWF - the fact is nasty, abusive and insulting statements were made in that discussion and we are perfectly entitled to say here how personally hurtful we find discussions like that. Please desist from abusing posters in this forum

Iwasfrozen

Johnnymcg wrote: »

IWF - the fact is nasty, abusive and insulting statements were made in that discussion and we are perfectly entitled to say here how personally hurtful we find discussions like that. Please desist from abusing posters in this forum

With respect I wasn't abusing the poster. I was decrying her attitude. Attacking the post, not the poster.

Yes, nasty abusive statments were made in that forum that should not have been made. But although you may not agree with these statements you must respect the right of the poster to write them.

Basically what I'm trying to say amounts to this. These people have a democratic right to express their disapproval of gay adoption. Boards.ie provides them with a medium to exercise this right. The OP seems to believe that anyone who disagrees with her does not have the same right to express themselves as she has.

Goodshape

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes, nasty abusive statments were made in that forum that should not have been made. But although you may not agree with these statements you must respect the right of the poster to write them.

Basically what I'm trying to say amounts to this. These people have a democratic right to express their disapproval of gay adoption. Boards.ie provides them with a medium to exercise this right. The OP seems to believe that anyone who disagrees with her does not have the same right to express themselves as she has.

The OP is asking how people respond to abusive statements, not decrying anyone's right to express them (Boards.ie isn't a democracy either, but that's entirely besides the point).

This thread isn't even about gay adoption, it was just an example.

I think you often read what you want into posts which causes entire threads to be derailed. Its a bit annoying, tbh.

grenache

I'm straight, but i wouldn't have a problem with a gay couple adopting. They'd be far more likely to do a decent job of raising a child than the average straight couple.

To be fair to a lot of people who voted against same-sex adoption in the AH poll, they voted that way on the basis that they think there needs to be a male-female balance, that a child needs a mum and a dad (something i don't necessarily agree with). I don't think they voted no out of any hatred towards gay people.

Annasopra

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

With respect I wasn't abusing the poster. I was decrying her attitude. Attacking the post, not the poster.

Yes, nasty abusive statments were made in that forum that should not have been made. But although you may not agree with these statements you must respect the right of the poster to write them.

Basically what I'm trying to say amounts to this. These people have a democratic right to express their disapproval of gay adoption. Boards.ie provides them with a medium to exercise this right. The OP seems to believe that anyone who disagrees with her does not have the same right to express themselves as she has.

This thread has NOTHING to do with freedom of speech or democracy to express an opinion. Don't post in it again unless you are going to stay on topic and drop the abusive and insulting attitude. I will consider a ban if you don't heed my warning. If you have a problem with this PM me - DO NOT derail the thread

MJRS

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What a horrible attitude you have OP. That anyone who has a problem with gay adoption must be anti-homosexual.

I just re-read my post a few times there... Where did you get that from! I thought it was obvious I was talking about the horrible hateful things some people were posting, not the valid arguments against it! I even said "Well, not all of them, I can see where some of them are coming from"!

You are forgetting that the vast majority of those against gay adoption have the interests of the child in their mind. They don't care about how you so vulgarly stated, "what you want to do with your penis or vagina". Grow up, the world does not revolve around you.

I'm well aware the vast majority have the interests of the child in mind, that was never up for debate in my post, or any post I made in the adoption thread!

Also I must say I am disappointed at your attitude towards those expressing their opinions on an internet forum that provides them a medium to do so. You seem to believe that those who don't agree with you should just sit in the corner and shut up.

Ok, I'm going to need it pointed out where I even implied this

Now I'm not in the mood to turn this into a debate about the virtues of gay adoption before anyone tries but I think you should look up the word hypocrite* OP.

Or is that a word you've reserved for those who disagree with you?

Absolutely baffled now. All I was saying was it gets me down to hear things like "Don't come whinging when gay bashing goes through the roof", I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, I actually enjoyed the majority of the debating in that thread, how have I been hypocritical at all!?

MJRS

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

With respect I wasn't abusing the poster. I was decrying her attitude. Attacking the post, not the poster.

Yes, nasty abusive statments were made in that forum that should not have been made. But although you may not agree with these statements you must respect the right of the poster to write them.

Basically what I'm trying to say amounts to this. These people have a democratic right to express their disapproval of gay adoption. Boards.ie provides them with a medium to exercise this right. The OP seems to believe that anyone who disagrees with her does not have the same right to express themselves as she has.

I'm a guy for one!

Where did I say they shouldn't be allowed post them? I just said it was upsetting to read them. Jaysus.

Dr. Baltar

Funny actually. I was going to mention Iwasfrozen only to realise that he had posted before me. My point is this, I feel disappointed when people are against gay adoption because "it is wrong" or "not natural" as I feel those are silly arguments, but I do respect the views of people who are against gay adoption based on logical thought. As much as I disagree with the views of Iwasfrozen, I disagree even more the views of the lgbt community who seem to equate anti gay adoption as homophobic.

stephen_n

Opinions are like ***holes as they say. People are going to disagree and worse still be disagreeable no matter where you go, be it on the net on in real life but I find it hard to understand why other peoples opinions matter so much. I do feel sometimes that there is a with us or against us attitude that exists, which is very detrimental to peoples self perceptions. Is it so necessary to convince absolutely every person on the planet that it is ok to be Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual or Trans. For me I'm comfortable with who I am and although the stupid comments irritate me, I don't really take it on board and it certainly wouldn't make me sad, except maybe for them and their ignorance!

Doop

Have to agree with you OP, I found that thread quite difficult, took me quite a few goes to read all the way through it.

Yes everyones intitled to their opinions on gay couples adopating, its the reasoning behind it that disturbed me. Have to admit even as gay male im undecided on the issue myself.

I simply thought the attitudes of young people would be a little more forward thinking. (assuming most posters are of a relativly younger generaltion... you wouldnt catch my ould pair using boards!!). If I do recall homosexuality was almost described akin to beastility. (dont quote me on that).

I try to put some of it down to quite young posters liking to have a strong opinion on something when really their just lacking on life experience.. being unaware of friends who will turn out to gay, still in school, not having travelled anywhere and met people from different walks of life. (I sound like an old man, im 26 btw :P)

But anyway on a whole I was dissapointed by it, to think theres still some people with archaic attitudes, who were even quite clearly contradicting themselves, but the merit of the argument isnt what I took issue with.

Annasopra

I have to say I'm finding the transphobia on the after hours forum to be very nasty

rainbow kirby

Very much so, though with the general vibe of AH I'd say quite a few people are just saying things to get a reaction out of others.

spurious

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Very much so, though with the general vibe of AH I'd say quite a few people are just saying things to get a reaction out of others.

I agree. It's that level of w*nkerism that ruins AH - great potential as a discussion forum but in reality a pile of poo as thread after thread gets derailed into nonsense. If some of the opinions expressed there are genuine, there are many people in for quite an amount of surprise and disappointment when life throws the sort of crap it most definitely will at them.

DubArk

MJRS wrote: »

I don't mean/want/intend this to be a continuation of the After Hours thread on same-sex adoption, but jesus, I can't believe how much it gets me down to read that thread and the arguments against gay adoption... Well, not all of them, I can see where some of them are coming from, and even saw one of them change their mind based on the thread, but some of the things posted... Beyond being insulted or whatever, I can't believe how much it upset me to see, put in words, what I guess I always dreaded being the worst case scenario for me. I know there was people doing great work in that thread, and I tried to too, but jesus...

I guess I'm asking, how much do you let the opinion of others affect you? How do you stop it affecting you? Feeling properly despised just because of what you want to do with your penis or vagina? I just...

Oh poor you, you sound so sad in your desperation and beaten down by these people and their opinions.
Cheer up …. Life’s a bit like that in many other corners too, if you’re Black, a Woman, Traveler, and even a Priest these days!! Oh yeah even if your a white straight male!!!
There are loads and loads of battles to be won out there.

Personally I don’t take it personally and don’t get disheartened; sure ten years ago we weren’t even having these debates it's fantastic.

No one despises you really and if they did it’s their loss! So brush yourself down, chin up, penis or vagina out and stand tall. Chop chop!!

OP – the best thing for you to do if you are sensitive to people’s opinions on the matter is to avoid forums that talk too much about it. Especially forums like AH which appears to me to be there mostly to give Trolls a place to play and wind each other up.

The sad fact is that whatever opinion there is to have on any issue, someone out there holds it. Look instead to the real world where the changing opinions on things like this are going in what I think is the right direction. The opinions of bigots and insulters are being slowly confined to people in dark rooms with keyboards who have no where else to go because it is only there that they can air what they think and find some of the other rare people who disagree with them.

The opinions and responses of people to, say, people like me (in a relationship that has 3 people and a baby on the way) would once have resulted in a common and awful response. Now however, with a few nasty exceptions, most people respond positively and even with some joy, to us and when people can get over their initial embarrassment they often end up being intensely curious. The phrase “I am so embarrassed to ask you this but I just have to know….” has somewhat become the sound track of my life and it is actually quite cute to see how people suddenly explode with a question you realise has been bottled up for ages.

Slowly the opinions of people are changing from fear and ignorance about gay issues to genuine curiosity and acceptance and in my opinion it is a good thing

Chuchoter

I was actually just thinking this after having a look through some of the threads on transsexuals that are on AH at the minute. People are just so shockingly stupid and there really is no other word for it than that. The AH mods need to sticky one of the TS threads because theres basically one a week and thy all say the same crap. Its been done to death.

St._Andalou

The After Hours forum is awful in general. It's full of bigots and smart-arses.

We'll just have to hope that the views on there are not indicative of broader society.