Changes to lone parent payment proposed

Nevyn

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/changes-to-lone-parent-payment-proposed-459568.html

29/05/2010 - 08:47:29
It has emerged that a special social welfare payment to lone parents will be stopped once their child reaches 13.

Following a review the Social Protection Minister Eamon O'Cuiv is cutting the One-Parent Family Payment.

The benefit is currently paid to the lone parent until children are 18, or 22 if in full-time education, - and comes in at €196 a week with just under €30 for each additional qualified child.

However for new claimants, from April 2011, the payment will be made until the youngest child in the family reaches 13. emerged that a special social welfare payment to lone parents will be stopped once their child reaches 13.

The move is just one of a number of cuts included in the new Social Welfare Bill 2010 published late yesterday evening.

The Government says the changes would bring Ireland's support for lone parents more in line with international provisions, where there is a movement away from long-term and passive income support.

But its not the only change - under the terms of the Social Welfare Bill 2010 people will be disqualified from collecting Jobseeker's Allowance if they refuse an offer of suitable employment.

The Bill will be debated in the Oireachtas before the summer recess in early July.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/changes-to-lone-parent-payment-proposed-459568.html#ixzz0pKEPaEXt

So the government seem to think it's acceptable to leave a 13 year old at home alone while a parent goes out to work, that is if they can get work.

silverharp

I'm only commenting on your question, but 13 seems reasonable to me. Personally I was left alone for various periods from 9 or 10 years of age.

Kids are adaptable and the last thing "we" need to do is assume they not capable of some level of responsability.

ash23

silverharp wrote: »

I'm only commenting on your question, but 13 seems reasonable to me. Personally I was left alone for various periods from 9 or 10 years of age.

Kids are adaptable and the last thing "we" need to do is assume they not capable of some level of responsability.

It'sone thing to say it's ok to leave them alone from 4pm til the parent gets home at 6pm. But my issue with this will be the mid term breaks, the 3 long months in the summer. Would it really be deemed acceptable to leave a 13/14 year old alone all day long to get up to god knows what?

If the limit was 16, I'd be all for it but I think 13 is too young.

sud1

Sorry...

But what do you think single parents who work do with their kids!!!

Get with the real world....I really cant understand this attitude that single parents need to stay at home with children...

If I choose to stay at home with my kids i would not expect the government to pay for it...

And if they cant get a job then they are entitled to claim job seekers benifit untill they find a job...thats if they really want a job???

mariaf24

Completely agree with sud1,when the child turns 13 the parent will be eligibe to claim jobseekers allowance. It's just another name for the same thing.

Nevyn

mariaf24 wrote: »

Completely agree with sud1,when the child turns 13 the parent will be eligibe to claim jobseekers allowance. It's just another name for the same thing.

I won't be it will be less and if you don't take a job or a training course after a certain period of time it will be cute off.

If you have a job which pays enough for your child care costs or you have a family member who will mind the children then fine but often the types of jobs a person can get won't pay the bill and child care.

ash23

sud1 wrote: »

Sorry...

But what do you think single parents who work do with their kids!!!

Get with the real world....I really cant understand this attitude that single parents need to stay at home with children...

If I choose to stay at home with my kids i would not expect the government to pay for it...

And if they cant get a job then they are entitled to claim job seekers benifit untill they find a job...thats if they really want a job???

Should single parents not have the right to choose to stay at home with their kids if that is what they feel is best for their children?
Would someone turn to a married stay at home parent and tell them to go back to work, that they aren't needed at home?

I am a single parent. A full time working single parent with ONE child on a wage that is above minimum.
And I struggle to pay for part time childcare while my child is in school. I really struggle during the summer months when it doubles. And as I said, I'm only paying for one and I'm not on minimum wage.

How is someone who earns 18k per annum supposed to pay childcare for one, two or three children full time during the summer?

A person in that position would be looking at paying (in my area anyway) 75 per child per week for after school care and 150 per child per week when they were not in school.

So take a single parent with 2 kids on an 18k wage. No rent allowance, no OPFA. A FIS top up to get them to about €500 per week. Rent down here would be about 200 per week, childcare part time another 150.Leaving 150 to feed, pay bills etc. Ok, tight but do able.

Summer months that childcare increases to 300 per month. Wages and FIS are gone and family lives on what exactly????

Max Power1

ash23 wrote: »

Should single parents not have the right to choose to stay at home with their kids if that is what they feel is best for their children?

at the tax payers expense?
No way.

ash23

Max Power1 wrote: »

at the tax payers expense?
No way.

Married stay at home parents cost the tax payer(tax credits given to spouse, low income one income families get FIS, medical cards etc, loss of PAYE and PRSI from person not working). Are they going to be made go back to work when their children are 13?

Max Power1

ash23 wrote: »

Married stay at home parents cost the tax payer(tax credits given to spouse, low income one income families get FIS, medical cards etc, loss of PAYE and PRSI from person not working). Are they going to be made go back to work when their children are 13?

All the examples that you have quoted (afaik you cant transfer tax credits to your spouse anymore) are not a choice but are the result of circumstances - either low pay, or being made redundant etc.

On the other hand, what 13 year old needs their parent to stay at home with them all day when said parent could be out working and contributing to the economy, and society as a whole.

Nevyn

You seriously think it's ok for a 13 year old to be left at home for 3 months
monday to friday from 8pm to 6pm on thier own?

Max Power1

Thaedydal wrote: »

You seriously think it's ok for a 13 year old to be left at home for 3 months
monday to friday from 8pm to 6pm on thier own?

depending on the child involved, yes I do. It wasnt done in my case, but I am aware of a large number of children of that age and slightly older that would be left home alone during the secondary school summer holidays.

Moonbeam

Community creches an the government subvention scheme exist for this reason.

ash23 wrote: »

Should single parents not have the right to choose to stay at home with their kids if that is what they feel is best for their children?
Would someone turn to a married stay at home parent and tell them to go back to work, that they aren't needed at home?

I am a single parent. A full time working single parent with ONE child on a wage that is above minimum.
And I struggle to pay for part time childcare while my child is in school. I really struggle during the summer months when it doubles. And as I said, I'm only paying for one and I'm not on minimum wage.

How is someone who earns 18k per annum supposed to pay childcare for one, two or three children full time during the summer?

A person in that position would be looking at paying (in my area anyway) 75 per child per week for after school care and 150 per child per week when they were not in school.

So take a single parent with 2 kids on an 18k wage. No rent allowance, no OPFA. A FIS top up to get them to about €500 per week. Rent down here would be about 200 per week, childcare part time another 150.Leaving 150 to feed, pay bills etc. Ok, tight but do able.

Summer months that childcare increases to 300 per month. Wages and FIS are gone and family lives on what exactly????

Unmarried co-habiting parents have it worst off,they can not get single mothers entitlement or share tax credits with their partners.

Normally I would welcome the above from the government, it is good for mothers to get back to work and a good example for the kids but the issue as i see it now is there just aren't jobs for them to go in to.
Another reason that I welcome this is the amount of co-habiting women claiming single mothers allowance and everything that goes with it is so high and although I believe the system is not right,I do believe that it is the system and them claiming money that they are not entitled to takes money from those that really need it.
I wonder will it encourage some people to have more children just so their benefits aren't stopped?

ash23

Moonbeam wrote: »

Community creches an the government subvention scheme exist for this reason.

Community creches aren't exactly in surplus! There are none at all in my locality.

Unmarried co-habiting parents have it worst off,they can not get single mothers entitlement or share tax credits with their partners.

But they have the earning power of two. If one stays at home then they have no childcare costs. If both work, they have a double income. A single parent has the earning power of one.
Also it is not "single mothers entitlement". It is one parent family allowance and it's there for any person who is parenting alone for whatever reason. Separation, death, prison sentences etc.

Normally I would welcome the above from the government, it is good for mothers to get back to work and a good example for the kids but the issue as i see it now is there just aren't jobs for them to go in to.
Another reason that I welcome this is the amount of co-habiting women claiming single mothers allowance and everything that goes with it is so high and although I believe the system is not right,I do believe that it is the system and them claiming money that they are not entitled to takes money from those that really need it.
I wonder will it encourage some people to have more children just so their benefits aren't stopped?

There are also people cheating the system on disability, job seekers and copious other social welfare benefits. But instead of focussing on ALL fraudsters they are singling out all those on one parent family allowance including genuine claimants.
Why?

ash23

Max Power1 wrote: »

All the examples that you have quoted (afaik you cant transfer tax credits to your spouse anymore) are not a choice but are the result of circumstances - either low pay, or being made redundant etc.

On the other hand, what 13 year old needs their parent to stay at home with them all day when said parent could be out working and contributing to the economy, and society as a whole.

Rubbish! Of course it's a choice! Plenty of couples make the choice to have one parent stay at home with the children and top up their wage with FIS and claim a medical or GP card. Also I was referring to the home carers tax break

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/credits/home-carers.html

which is currently payable up to the age of 18. Will this also cease at the age of 13 now?

Because if the children of single parents are deemed to be able to fend for themselves while their main carer goes back to work, then the same should apply to the children of married couples.

dark crystal

Another ridiculously backwards move from the government.

If they spent a fraction as much on providing state assissted childcare for all families as they did on bailing out banks, continuing to shell out child benefit to high earners and TD's expense accounts, the economy would be in a much better state.

All parents need a cohesive childcare policy desperately in this country. The rate of child poverty continues to rise and the government are going backwards with every cut they inflict on families, working or not.

Taking money away from single parents once their children reach secondary school age is going to tip a lot of families over the edge.

This country really needs to review it's priorities.

mariaf24

Thaedydal wrote: »

You seriously think it's ok for a 13 year old to be left at home for 3 months
monday to friday from 8pm to 6pm on thier own?

Agreed,children at 13 should not be home alone...

Off topic a bit but what is happening to rent allowance?

cynder

I cant see any problem with a 13 year old left home alone during school holidays.

Im sure the 13 year old would have friends or family to visit and should be able to make themselves a sandwich or even a dinner. The 13 year old might even have older brothers and sisters (unless an only child).

Might teach them a bit of responsibility, even though they would most likely be playing on the x-box.

I don't see the need for a lone parent to be receiving a lone parent payment for a 22 year old a college.

It could be worse, in the UK its 7 not 13.

gaeilgegrinds1

Do none of ye think if the fathers involved paid their way that they might think more carefully about what they are at? I've loads of friends who have been left on their own without a leg to stand on and have it really tough, it's made too easy for them to walk away!

goodmum

As someone who has one child and has been parenting alone from the start, I have 'lived' on opfa for the first two years of his life. And it was hell on earth. There is no way that any sane human being would WANT to live that way for 18years.
But the government needs to introduce training or up-skilling schemes for these women who will have lost many of their skills over the years, whilst parenting alone. You can't just say, right, thats it, 13 years as a parent, out you go and get a job!
I remember when my son was a baby, there was talk of this being introduced. My bet is it wont happen anytime soon.
And don't get me started on the fathers responsibilities in all of this...
There's no way I would leave my son home alone at 13 (during the holidays), not a hope!

jessiejam

Its only for new applicants AFAIK so those that have it need not worry. Those that haven't applied yet they will know nothing else. I am in agreement about the home alone thing. Teenagers nowadays no way. Its not all just about the childcare issue either, its about providing for a teenager when you dont have the financial support of a partner.

Klingon Hamlet

goodmum wrote: »

And don't get me started on the fathers responsibilities in all of this...

What do you mean? Dads are just as involved in their children's lives as mums.

Some fathers are directly affected by this change to OPFA--I know 3 dads with sole custody of their children.

goodmum

Well I know none.
My experience of parenting alone are common enough - he left when I was pregnant and doesnt see his son -and when I said that 'dont get me started...' I was referring to my own experience, but I didnt want to go into here, that's all.
Sorry for going off topic, just explaining my remark as requested.

Klingon Hamlet

goodmum wrote: »

Well I know none.
My experience of parenting alone are common enough - he left when I was pregnant and doesnt see his son -and when I said that 'dont get me started...' I was referring to my own experience, but I didnt want to go into here, that's all.
Sorry for going off topic, just explaining my remark as requested.

I'm very sorry to hear your son's father ran away from his responsibilities:(

Just please don't tar us with the same brush:o

Men face huge difficulties when it comes to recognition as an equal and capable parent...and as I say, there are a growing number of dads as sole parents for one reason or another, who face this problem too...

(I'm a single dad with shared custody, i.e. the mum gets OFP, and I get nothing, go figure:o)

Splendour

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

I'm very sorry to hear your son's father ran away from his responsibilities:(

Just please don't tar us with the same brush:o

Men face huge difficulties when it comes to recognition as an equal and capable parent...and as I say, there are a growing number of dads as sole parents for one reason or another, who face this problem too...

(I'm a single dad with shared custody, i.e. the mum gets OFP, and I get nothing, go figure:o)

AFAIK, both parents can apply for lone parents allowance. Pressume it is given to the parent who has responsibilty for the day to day care of the child...

chocgirl

I think it's reasonable that a 13 year old can stay at home and look after themselves when they're not in school. Many 13 year olds are babysitting and getting paid for it during the evening so no reason why they can't mind themselves during the day.

When I was 13 I was at home all summer on my own looking after my younger sister and most of my friends were the same as both our parents had to go out and work. 13 year olds are much more mature now as well.

Klingon Hamlet

Splendour wrote: »

AFAIK, both parents can apply for lone parents allowance. Pressume it is given to the parent who has responsibilty for the day to day care of the child...

As in Primary Carer: the mumsy

Dad only gets Primary Care by taking away custody from the mum, which very rarely seems to happen

(i.e. mums get OPFP automatically, unless dad fights for sole custody, sole guardianship, and wins; that's if he's on the birth cert which only the mother/court can allow)

stovelid

Single mother chooses not to leave 13 year-old children alone

Boards view: spongers...blah...get a job...rabble

Something happens to child or child gets into trouble when mother is in work

Boards view: unfit mother...blah...sterilization...rabble

goodmum

Klingon Hamlet, neither you nor any other human being, need apologise to me for the fact that my sons father abandoned him.
In fact, he need never even apologise to me directly.
He does need to explain his actions to his son though - his son is the only person he's answerable to (apart from his maker of course;)).
But I get your point.
And +1 to stovelid, though I wouldn't exactly have put it that way myself.
Do people not realise that it's not necessarily the 13yr old him/herself who couldn't look after themselves? It's the fact that they could bring pals home and cause mayhem if left unsupervised. What if someone was to knock at the door and the child was afraid to answer? yes, it could be the tv licence guy, but it might not be! You think it's ok to leave a 13yr old in that situation, afraid and alone, if a strange adult knocks on their door????

I have 4yrs left until my son hits secondary school. Already, I know I can't send him to the same school as his peers - I will send him to a school closer to home, so that when he doesn't need a childminder anymore (no clue what that age will be), he can come home for lunch and come home from school alone, and wait until I get in from work at 6.

Splendour

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

As in Primary Carer: the mumsy

Dad only gets Primary Care by taking away custody from the mum, which very rarely seems to happen

(i.e. mums get OPFP automatically, unless dad fights for sole custody, sole guardianship, and wins; that's if he's on the birth cert which only the mother/court can allow)

It's fair enough if only the primary carer (be they mother or father) gets the allowance as they have all the expense of looking after the child.

cynder

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

As in Primary Carer: the mumsy

Dad only gets Primary Care by taking away custody from the mum, which very rarely seems to happen

(i.e. mums get OPFP automatically, unless dad fights for sole custody, sole guardianship, and wins; that's if he's on the birth cert which only the mother/court can allow)

Or if the wife dies,

* my brother is married and his wife is terminally ill and has 2 years left to live.