Changes to lone parent payment proposed

Nevyn

For some parents they can't afford the cost of the child care with the wages they are on, it is that simple and saving isn't an option either. It is all well and good to look at other people struggling and make assumptions and suggestions.

Flexible jobs which are based around the hours a child is in school are frankly very hard to find.
The same with all this talk of re training, until children are old enough to be able to care for themsevles and be left with out adult supervision or until there is enough community funded child care for everyone there are parents who can not return to work.

mariaf24

The more i read on this thread,the more obvious it is that it suits certain people to have children,get their welfare and have excuses not to work. Childminding problems for teenagers? I could perhaps tolerate that for babies/toddlers but for a few weeks of the year for a teenager?
I've heard it all...

mariaf24

Thaedydal wrote: »

For some parents they can't afford the cost of the child care with the wages they are on, it is that simple and saving isn't an option either. It is all well and good to look at other people struggling and make assumptions and suggestions.

Flexible jobs which are based around the hours a child is in school are frankly very hard to find.
The same with all this talk of re training, until children are old enough to be able to care for themsevles and be left with out adult supervision or until there is enough community funded child care for everyone there are parents who can not return to work.

I can accept that but not for a 13+ year old.

Nevyn

Then we have to agree to differ and I consider 13 to be too young to be left home alone unsupervised.

mariaf24

Thaedydal wrote: »

Then we have to agree to differ and I consider 13 to be too young to be left home alone unsupervised.

I do too,unless for an hour perhaps before or after school (I did this). But i can't see how it could be so impossible to afford the very little childcare they would require. I think people have such a negative beaten down attitude of lone parents,why can't they see that they are worthy of and good work towards a well paid job and a successful career? Not destined or doomed to a life at home simply for having a child...

K-9

rightwingdub wrote: »

I don't see why I should as a taxpayer have to pay for a lifetime of permanent welfare sponging, welfare should be for people who have lost their jobs as a temprary measue not a form of permanent addiction, In America in 1996 the US government aided by a Republican Congress reformed the welfare state and between 1996-2006 the number of single parents who returned to employment increased by 54%, also before the recession hit America roughly 2 out of 3 single parents in the US worked full time so welfare reform proved to be very sucessful in the US, I hate permanent able bodied welfare spongers (these are people who have never or hardly ever worked in their people NOT people who have lost their jobs in the last 3 years and are desperately looking for work), these permanent able bodied spongers are a cancerous affliction on Irish society.

The state should do more to promote marriage, okay there are relationships that are irreconciable for various reasons ie domestic violence, adultery etc. I also believe that marriage is becoming more of a middle class institution and is gradually diminishing in working class areas. Back to welfare kids are more likely to work themselves if their parent or single parent provider is working instead of living a lifetime of permanent drudgery off the state. Its time for a conservative counter revolution as regards permanent welfare dependency in this country.

Statistics show about 60% of Single Parents work in Ireland, so very similar to the USA. Many joined the work force here during the boom and bubble years. So, it seems the Irish system isn't that far of being as successful as the US in getting Single Parents to work. It just isn't right wing enough for some.

Some US states tried busing single mothers to minimum wage jobs miles away, leaving kids home alone for 12 hours a day. Caused social problems and was dropped.

mariaf24 wrote: »

I don't know of any co-habiting or married couples receiving any sort of benefits,especially benefits which would encourage them to have even more children...

They get more or less the same benefits, indeed they get more benefits because there is a welfare allowance for married spouses. The child based welfare payments are a child dependent allowance of about €29.80 per week, child benefit and a few other small ones. All available to married couples. Married couples having more kids to get a bigger council house does happen, it isn't solely a single parent problem.

mariaf24 wrote: »

I would imagine they are the main expense on welfare? Others have/will be cut accordingly. Parents who are no longer entitled to OPFA will be eligible to receive JSB and various other benefits.

450,000 odd unemployed, 90 odd thousand single parents. They aren't, not by a long shot.

mariaf24 wrote: »

Well i think they targeted single parents as they are one of the only groups in receipt of welfare who can physically work and are able to work. You cannot expect this from those with disabilites or the elderly so single parents are the obvious choice.

And as Ned Flanders said, there's folk who don't feel like workin, bless em...:pac:

The other big group they missed is able bodied married parents, both on welfare.

mariaf24

K-9 wrote: »

Statistics show about 60% of Single Parents work in Ireland, so very similar to the USA. Many joined the work force here during the boom and bubble years. So, it seems the Irish system isn't that far of being as successful as the US in getting Single Parents to work. It just isn't right wing enough for some.

Some US states tried busing single mothers to minimum wage jobs miles away, leaving kids home alone for 12 hours a day. Caused social problems and was dropped.



They get more or less the same benefits, indeed they get more benefits because there is a welfare allowance for married spouses. The child based welfare payments are a child dependent allowance of about €29.80 per week, child benefit and a few other small ones. All available to married couples. Married couples having more kids to get a bigger council house does happen, it isn't solely a single parent problem.



450,000 odd unemployed, 90 odd thousand single parents. They aren't, not by a long shot.



The other big group they missed is able bodied married parents, both on welfare.

I think its quite sad that you've gone through my posts and picked at minor little things at them. When i said that they were the biggest expense,i meant of people who are fit for work.

Anyway,add former LPA recipients onto jobseekers allowance as that is where the majority of them will go if they truly believe this childcare nonsense.

K-9

mariaf24 wrote: »

ash i'm sorry,but you are sounding like a 14 year old. As parents,it was our dream to own our own home,and we did it.

You would advise parents to 'rent a cheap place' in order for one of them to stay at home.

I am sorry and do not wish to offend you but i've lost you way back...

mariaf24 wrote: »

We didn't choose one over the other. I am not here to discuss my private business. I can't speak for every parent but i would imagine the majority of parents would like to own their own home,rather than 'rent a cheap place'. As a parent you think of the long run not the immediate future. I personally never felt secure in rented accommodation. Again,that's just my belief.

And i still believe that removing OPFA will give a whole range of new options to people who would never have even considered doing courses or seeking employment. I wish you could see the good in it.

Off topic, but it was a far wiser choice to rent here for the last couple of years while prices crashed and rents dropped.

Moonbeam wrote: »

childcare costs are a huge problem for everyone.

The subvention scheme is there for people on social welfare to help them afford to work or return to education but is only available in community creches.

http://bccg.ie/subvention/

And of course that scheme is affected by the cuts, which is a shame, considering it was under funded and a lottery before that.

rightwingdub

K-9 wrote: »

Statistics show about 60% of Single Parents work in Ireland, so very similar to the USA. Many joined the work force here during the boom and bubble years. So, it seems the Irish system isn't that far of being as successful as the US in getting Single Parents to work. It just isn't right wing enough for some.

Some US states tried busing single mothers to minimum wage jobs miles away, leaving kids home alone for 12 hours a day. Caused social problems and was dropped.



They get more or less the same benefits, indeed they get more benefits because there is a welfare allowance for married spouses. The child based welfare payments are a child dependent allowance of about €29.80 per week, child benefit and a few other small ones. All available to married couples. Married couples having more kids to get a bigger council house does happen, it isn't solely a single parent problem.



450,000 odd unemployed, 90 odd thousand single parents. They aren't, not by a long shot.



The other big group they missed is able bodied married parents, both on welfare.

As far as I'm aware most single parents only work part time, should thre not have been a drive towards full time employment to ween single parents off all welfare benefits.

Nevyn

rightwingdub wrote: »

As far as I'm aware most single parents only work part time, should thre not have been a drive towards full time employment to ween single parents off all welfare benefits.

They work part time due to the cost/lack of child care and being less well off if they went full time due to cost of childcare ect.

Yes there needs to be cuts but there also needs to be funding for community child care.

rightwingdub

Here's also the stats from America for single parents in full time employment in 2007, I calculated that roughly 53% of single parents are in full time employment. I calculated that roughly 81% of single parents in total were either in part time or full time employment, apparently the Americans have been a lot more sucessful at getting single parents back to work. I accept that with the recession this figure has declined quite dramatically but Ireland got nowhere near these figures when there were plenty of jobs available.

http://singleparents.about.com/od/legalissues/p/portrait.htm

K-9

mariaf24 wrote: »

I think its quite sad that you've gone through my posts and picked at minor little things at them. When i said that they were the biggest expense,i meant of people who are fit for work.

Anyway,add former LPA recipients onto jobseekers allowance as that is where the majority of them will go if they truly believe this childcare nonsense.

Just was responding to quotes like yours and rightwingdub. Again, 90,000 out of 450,000. Hard to know if they are. You'd need statistics on married couples on welfare. Considering we had unemployment figures of about 250,000 throughout the boom/bubble, doubtful.

rightwingdub wrote: »

As far as I'm aware most single parents only work part time, should thre not have been a drive towards full time employment to ween single parents off all welfare benefits.

Probably, but the welfare trap kicks in. A far better use of resources would have been scrapping all universal child benefit increases in the last decade and instead put in a childcare tax credit. Unfortunately the stay at home Mum lobby won out there.

That system would have had 3 big advantages, child benefit that everybody gets would have been less than it is now and parents, single, married or co habitating would have got help towards childcare. The help now, barring the early childcare places and a few lottery schemes, which is just a token jesture, is non existent. The other advantage is, in a recession with unemployment doubling, the cost would naturally reduce.

Unfortunately, it probably is too late and unaffordable to do that now. Another huge opportunity cost of the bubble.

Nevyn

Term time for school is a lot more in the USA and they have after school programs from homework clubs to sports/actives and they have summer camps which children go away to for weeks. The system is set up a lot better in that way then it is here.

K-9

rightwingdub wrote: »

Here's also the stats from America for single parents in full time employment in 2007, I calculated that roughly 53% of single parents are in full time employment. I calculated that roughly 81% of single parents in total were either in part time or full time employment, apparently the Americans have been a lot more sucessful at getting single parents back to work. I accept that with the recession this figure has declined quite dramatically but Ireland got nowhere near these figures when there were plenty of jobs available.

http://singleparents.about.com/od/legalissues/p/portrait.htm

Seen a programme lately about Single Parents being homeless due to the recession in the US lately. While I'd say we can learn a lot from their system, they can learn a hell of a lot from us too!

What are childcare arrangements like there?

rightwingdub

Thaedydal wrote: »

Term time for school is a lot less in the USA and they have after school programs from homework clubs to sports/activies and they have summer camps which children go away to for weeks. The system is set up a lot better in that way then it is here.

1) A longer school term should be introduced in Ireland, the school year should be increased by 20 days in primary schools and 40 days in secondary schools, can't see our selfish teachers agreeing to such a move though;)

2) After school programmes like homework clubs are a sound idea, same with sports and summer camps, might get a few of Ireland's overweight children fit.

They are excellent policies in the US and I wouldn't have a problem with them here in Ireland but our selfish teachers wouldn't agree to such policies.

mariaf24

Completely off topic...

Nevyn

rightwingdub wrote: »

1) A longer school term should be introduced in Ireland, the school year should be increased by 20 days in primary schools and 40 days in secondary schools, can't see our selfish teachers agreeing to such a move though;)

2) After school programmes like homework clubs are a sound idea, same with sports and summer camps, might get a few of Ireland's overweight children fit.

They are excellent policies in the US and I wouldn't have a problem with them here in Ireland but our selfish teachers wouldn't agree to such policies.

As far as I am aware the use of the school buildings after the school day has officially ended is an insurance problem rather then anything else.

K-9

Moonbeam wrote: »

Single parents get single parents tax credit and a higher tax ceiling -
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/money-and-tax/tax/income-tax-credits-and-reliefs/one-parent-family-tax-credits-and-reliefs

Married couples get - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/money-and-tax/tax/income-tax/taxation_of_married_people and http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/money-and-tax/tax/income-tax-credits-and-reliefs/home-carers-tax-credit

co-habiting couples get nothing.

In a way, single parents are treated similarly to a married couple, both working as they both get increased cut off points, resulting in more income taxed at 20%, instead of 41%.

The major problem I have with the above is, we have a Home Carers tax credit of €900 per year for Stay at Home parents and zilch for working parents. Absolute madness.

On top of that, the early childcare supplement was scrapped and we now have a free pre school child place instead, of no use to a young mother with a baby. To top it all of, that place is available to Stay at Home parents! The madness is, you get more state help if you are a Stay at Home Parent.

Moonbeam wrote: »

childcare costs are a huge problem for everyone.

The subvention scheme is there for people on social welfare to help them afford to work or return to education but is only available in community creches.

http://bccg.ie/subvention/

Actually, this is an excellent scheme and it could be utilised in your ideas about after school care etc. Frontline had a guy from one of these schemes on. They are cutting funding for them. He made the point that they could use this funding to take people of the dole, many of them single parents and work there, thus providing subsidised childcare. Hell, the workers could bring their children with them. Communities have so much to offer, many of them the ones that get slated on here.

Nevyn

Home carers tax credit is **** all good unless you are married and transfer it, if your not tough ****

K-9

Double post, swore it didn't go through!

K-9

Thaedydal wrote: »

Home carers tax credit is **** all good unless you are married and transfer it, if your not tough ****

And you can't really transfer it either. It is available to 1 income families only, so non transferable.*

*You are allowed a small income of about 5/6k, after that it is gone.

ash23

rightwingdub wrote: »

As far as I'm aware most single parents only work part time, should thre not have been a drive towards full time employment to ween single parents off all welfare benefits.

Totally untrue.

As of Dec 2009 there were 90500 people claiming OPFA.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0602/1224271676750.html


As per the census in 2006 there were over 181,000 single parents.

So over half of all single parents are not claiming OPFA in any shape or form which probably means they are working full time.

Of those on OPFA, 60% are working either full or part time.

http://www.oneparent.ie/pdfs/21_Everybody%20Knows...wallet%20PDF.pdf

So of all those single parents out there, 80% are in some sort of employment, majority in full time employment. Of course, the media don't present it that way.

chocgirl

rightwingdub wrote: »

1) A longer school term should be introduced in Ireland, the school year should be increased by 20 days in primary schools and 40 days in secondary schools, can't see our selfish teachers agreeing to such a move though;)

2) After school programmes like homework clubs are a sound idea, same with sports and summer camps, might get a few of Ireland's overweight children fit.

They are excellent policies in the US and I wouldn't have a problem with them here in Ireland but our selfish teachers wouldn't agree to such policies.

Just as a matter of interest why do you think the term time should be increased by 20 or 40 days? Is it solely for childcare purposes or educational benefit? Just wondering as I've seen and heard this idea thrown around a lot.

K-9

ash23 wrote: »

Totally untrue.

As of Dec 2009 there were 90500 people claiming OPFA.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0602/1224271676750.html


As per the census in 2006 there were over 181,000 single parents.

So over half of all single parents are not claiming OPFA in any shape or form which probably means they are working full time.

Of those on OPFA, 60% are working either full or part time.

http://www.oneparent.ie/pdfs/21_Everybody%20Knows...wallet%20PDF.pdf

So of all those single parents out there, 80% are in some sort of employment, majority in full time employment. Of course, the media don't present it that way.

So the employment figures aren't that different from the US?

Interesting. Wonder how much the US has decreased the Social Welfare budget and increased military spending in the last few years?

Moomoo1

ash23 wrote: »

I don't see how. I think if a single parent wants to work, they should. If they want to work part time they should. If they want to stay at home they should.

Exactly. Let's stop making excuses for the government's inability to provide the basic nessessities to our children..

ash23

K-9 wrote: »

So the employment figures aren't that different from the US?

Interesting. Wonder how much the US has decreased the Social Welfare budget and increased military spending in the last few years?

The perception is still out there that majority of single parents are very young and got pregnant to get a house or get out of school. Fact is these might exist but are in the small minority.

Some of the facts on the last link are very interesting. Most young single parents only have one child for example. Another myth dispelled that the majority of young girls who get pregnant go onto have more and more babies.



I'm quite happy that these stats are actually out there. I know quite a few single mothers. We all have one child. We all work.
I was start
ing to think I was living in some parallel universe as all I see on threads like this is "I know someone who gets this and that and lives with her boyfriend etc etc, flat screen tv, holidays, two cars". Meh!

I'm just so annoyed that the government is helping to feed the attitude about single parents. I didn't truly believe that people had that attitude anymore until I became a single parent. But I encounter it on a fairly regular basis now.

mariaf24

Well if so many single parents work full and part time why have you been arguing this whole time that they are/will be unable to work when their child reaches 13?

You are constantly contradicting everything you have previously said.

I want them to work,you have shown they work but you have previously stated they cannot work due to child care issues? (ash23)

ash23

mariaf24 wrote: »

Well if so many single parents work full and part time why have you been arguing this whole time that they are/will be unable to work when their child reaches 13?

You are constantly contradicting everything you have previously said.

I want them to work,you have shown they work but you have previously stated they cannot work due to child care issues? (ash23)

Maria, I fail to see what is contradictory about my posts.

I am saying the ones who currently rely on OPFA should be able to.
They probably have good reasons for doing so.
I am also challenging the perception that majority of single parents do not work or want to work.
I am pointing out that where possible MOST single parents WILL work rather than claim benefits.
A very small minority choose not to work. I'd imagine most of the 20% of single parents not working are in that situation because of the penalties when they do return to work (losing rent allowance and also having to pay childcare).
I have also been pointing out that those who work part time will have to give up their employment once OPFA is taken from them.


You want them all to work, regardless of whether or not it pays them to do so, regardless of their home situation, regardless of their childcare views and costs.
You paint an image of a single parent on benefits as someone who boasts about the "luxury" lifestyle they lead. Of someone who gets oh so much handed to them, who has everything and doesn't deserve it yadda yadda.


I'll say it again, what I want is for single parents who want to work to be able to work, for those who want to work part time to be able to work part time and for those who want to stay at home (small minority) to be able to stay at home.

I want single parents to have the same choices that married/co-habiting parents have, for our children to have the same rights as other children.

I want the government to stop targetting single parents as a publicity stunt (because this move will not save money, it's all PR).

I want people to stop judging single parents and actually inform themselves of the real statistics before conjuring up a Vikki Pollard image.

I want the government to do more to stop welfare fraud and to do more to chase maintenance from absent parents.


Is that clear enough for you?

mariaf24

That's fair enough,it's just that i was under the impression that you were of the opinion that single parents would not be able to find work (part time/full time) when their child reaches 13 due to childcare issues etc,then in your recent posts you have stated that the majority (80%) do in fact work. That's interesting. Just wondering how you could argue for both?

ash23

mariaf24 wrote: »

That's fair enough,it's just that i was under the impression that you were of the opinion that single parents would not be able to find work (part time/full time) when their child reaches 13 due to childcare issues etc,then in your recent posts you have stated that the majority (80%) do in fact work. That's interesting. Just wondering how you could argue for both?

No, I was saying that the ones who are currently on OPFA will. Especially those on rent allowance. The way the current system is (and I was on it), it is VERY difficult for someone on OPFA and rent allowance to actually go back to work full time.

Many go back part time once they come off rent allowance and rely on OPFA to "top up" their income. Now this option will be gone and they will either have to give up employment and go on JSA and wait for a job that pays enough to cover childcare and expenses. Hardly a step forward!

And for the ones who are on OPFA and fully rely on it, well they will also have to wait for a job with the right pay and the right hours instead of being able to go part time if the opportunity arose.

It will actually take options away in terms of employment for single parents.

I think the number of single parents working will actually fall with this proposal (unless they do something for those working part time or those on rent allowance).