House prices still too high!

gurramok

MuffinsDa wrote: »

You obviously haven't a clue what IT is, and what are IT companies are doing here (as opposed to manufacturing companies). Those involved in manufacturing are gone or going(Dell, Compaq, Gateway), but there are plenty of very large companies that are doing a hell of a lot of R&D, Services and Development in Ireland. I know, I work for one of them. And our R&D is expanding, same as many other software companies. And these are all highly paid and highly skilled positions. To name a few: Oracle, SAP, IBM, Symantec, AOL, Google, Microsoft, SITA.

And here's some examples:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=GfL&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___GB335&q=IBM+R%26D+ireland&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/uk-ireland/aol-creating-50-jobs-at-dublin-site-14833340.html

I hope your knowledge of economy is better than that of IT scene in Ireland!!!

I work for one too, not on your list though

Are they all located in Dublin to support this notion of 'a major IT capital'?

Are the numbers employed and what they earn sufficient enough to support high house prices?

Btw, AOL employ about 200 people. A bit small there

MuffinsDa wrote: »

D2/D6/D200 doesn't make any difference in my point, pick whatever area you think is the most expensive in Dublin. What I was pointing out remains the same, and clearly and obviously defeats your point about comparing Dublin to NY or London. Picking on area codes won't wipe the egg off yours and throw it on mine, I'm afraid. Grow up, and respond with reason and logic if you are capable of, otherwise say nothing !

LOL.

What exactly where you trying to point out? That a pop star can afford a pad in the Docklands or Dalkey and not NY?

On the topic, you show us affordable house prices in Dublin. Well, can you? Showing a single house will not suffice.

MuffinsDa

gurramok wrote: »

I work for one too, not on your list though

Are they all located in Dublin to support this notion of 'a major IT capital'?

Yes all bar one (SITA) are located in Dublin. I'm surprised that you work in IT and you don't know that ;-)

gurramok wrote: »

I work for one too, not on your list though

Are the numbers employed and what they earn sufficient enough to support high house prices?

Of course not on its own. I was correcting your misinformation about the IT industry and jobs in here and pointing out that you were wrong in that argument.

gurramok wrote: »

Btw, AOL employ about 200 people. A bit small there

AOL employs 6000+ people worldwide, and is expanding in Dublin as discussed. Not sure what you're talking about.

gurramok wrote: »

What exactly where you trying to point out? That a pop star can afford a pad in the Docklands or Dalkey and not NY?

Well we'll leave it to whoever reads this post to figure out what I was trying to point out to you, if you haven't got it by now then there is some cognitive problem there and I'm not going to waste my time any further

gurramok wrote: »

On the topic, you show us affordable house prices in Dublin. Well, can you? Showing a single house will not suffice.

Again I have no idea why you are asking me or what you are asking me. You want me to show you affordable house prices in Dublin?! Affordable to whom? What part of Dublin? What are you talking about?!

OMD

gurramok wrote: »

On the topic, you show us affordable house prices in Dublin. Well, can you? Showing a single house will not suffice.

Gurramok you are still going on about this. My initial point was that the average home in Ireland is affordable to a person on the average wage. That is a fact. You may not like it, but it is the truth. This does not mean prices cannot fall anymore. It is just a statement of the current situation. You seem adamant that this cannot really be the situation for some reason.

In Dublin City there are 1,333 properties advertised with an asking price of 225k or less. Allowing for selling price being about 10% below asking then that puts 1333 properties in Dublin City within reach. Of this 400 are 3 bedroomed properties. Yes, yes I know before you even reply, they don't suit you, no room for your dog, no public transport to your work etc.

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?s%5Bcc_id%5D=ct1&s%5Ba_id%5D=&s%5Bmnp%5D=&s%5Bmxp%5D=225000&s%5Bbd_no%5D=3&search=1&s%5Broute_id%5D=&s%5Ba_id_transport%5D=0&s%5Baddress%5D=&s%5Btxt%5D=&s%5Bpt_id%5D=&s%5Bhouse_type%5D=&s%5Bsqmn%5D=&s%5Bsqmx%5D=&s%5Bmna%5D=&s%5Bmxa%5D=&s%5Bnpt_id%5D=&s%5Bdays_old%5D=&s%5Bnew%5D=&s%5Bagreed%5D=&s%5Bsearch_type%5D=sale&s%5Btransport%5D=&s%5Badvanced%5D=&s%5Bprice_per_room%5D=&s%5Bfurn%5D=&s%5Brefreshmap%5D=1&fr=default&refine.x=66&refine.y=10

Mr. Presentable

gurramok wrote: »

That was in reply to OMD's assertion using the averages and then you jumped in with ONE house with which about 20 others in the area are alot more expensive.

That's assuming you were following the conversation about averages in the first place before you jumped in.

refresh your memory:




Its actually D2. Now who has egg on their face?

Well, from where I sit, in respect of your question, you do. I was not answering anyone elses question, just yours - but obviously it ran contrary to what you wanted to read. It is apparent to me you operate from some agenda which only you are privy to. If you don't like the answer, here's a thought, don't ask the question.

gurramok

MuffinsDa wrote: »

Yes all bar one (SITA) are located in Dublin. I'm surprised that you work in IT and you don't know that ;-)

Of course not on its own. I was correcting your misinformation about the IT industry and jobs in here and pointing out that you were wrong in that argument.

What misinformation? Dublin is not a major IT centre, you just admitted it yourself with 'of course not on its own'

There are maybe 400-500,000 jobs in Dublin, i'm sure one of you with all the know all will come up with an exact number. Those employers you listed would luckily reach 12,000 at best.

MuffinsDa wrote: »

AOL employs 6000+ people worldwide, and is expanding in Dublin as discussed. Not sure what you're talking about.

Read your own article:rolleyes: It says they employ 200 here with another 50 on the way.

MuffinsDa wrote: »

Well we'll leave it to whoever reads this post to figure out what I was trying to point out to you, if you haven't got it by now then there is some cognitive problem there and I'm not going to waste my time any further

Again I have no idea why you are asking me or what you are asking me. You want me to show you affordable house prices in Dublin?! Affordable to whom? What part of Dublin? What are you talking about?!

So you cannot list a single house that is an attractive price to the average buyer. That sums it up really.

OMD wrote: »

Gurramok you are still going on about this. My initial point was that the average home in Ireland is affordable to a person on the average wage. That is a fact. You may not like it, but it is the truth. This does not mean prices cannot fall anymore. It is just a statement of the current situation. You seem adamant that this cannot really be the situation for some reason.

In the real world it ain't a fact. Ghost estates in Leitrim\Westmeath etc which boost the numbers of low priced properties do not count in the real world of no demand in those areas.

Saying the line "that the average home in Ireland is affordable to a person on the average wage" needs to be examined and that was what I pulled you up upon.

OMD wrote: »

In Dublin City there are 1,333 properties advertised with an asking price of 225k or less. Allowing for selling price being about 10% below asking then that puts 1333 properties in Dublin City within reach. Of this 400 are 3 bedroomed properties. Yes, yes I know before you even reply, they don't suit you, no room for your dog, no public transport to your work etc.

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?s%5Bcc_id%5D=ct1&s%5Ba_id%5D=&s%5Bmnp%5D=&s%5Bmxp%5D=225000&s%5Bbd_no%5D=3&search=1&s%5Broute_id%5D=&s%5Ba_id_transport%5D=0&s%5Baddress%5D=&s%5Btxt%5D=&s%5Bpt_id%5D=&s%5Bhouse_type%5D=&s%5Bsqmn%5D=&s%5Bsqmx%5D=&s%5Bmna%5D=&s%5Bmxa%5D=&s%5Bnpt_id%5D=&s%5Bdays_old%5D=&s%5Bnew%5D=&s%5Bagreed%5D=&s%5Bsearch_type%5D=sale&s%5Btransport%5D=&s%5Badvanced%5D=&s%5Bprice_per_room%5D=&s%5Bfurn%5D=&s%5Brefreshmap%5D=1&fr=default&refine.x=66&refine.y=10

Oh come on OMD. Did you even look where those 400 3beds are? Lets face it, you'd be lucky to find a handful in a safe area at your 205k price.

gurramok

nipplenuts wrote: »

Well, from where I sit, in respect of your question, you do. I was not answering anyone elses question, just yours - but obviously it ran contrary to what you wanted to read. It is apparent to me you operate from some agenda which only you are privy to. If you don't like the answer, here's a thought, don't ask the question.

Nope, re-read the thread again. We were debating averages.

What agenda may that be?

ntlbell

MuffinsDa wrote: »

Yes all bar one (SITA) are located in Dublin. I'm surprised that you work in IT and you don't know that ;-)

I work for one you mentioned, we have no R&D in Dublin or Ireland for that matter and shipped all our manufacturing to middle Europe. So maybe it's time you brushed up!

ntlbell

OMD wrote: »

Gurramok you are still going on about this. My initial point was that the average home in Ireland is affordable to a person on the average wage. That is a fact. You may not like it, but it is the truth. This does not mean prices cannot fall anymore. It is just a statement of the current situation. You seem adamant that this cannot really be the situation for some reason.

In Dublin City there are 1,333 properties advertised with an asking price of 225k or less. Allowing for selling price being about 10% below asking then that puts 1333 properties in Dublin City within reach. Of this 400 are 3 bedroomed properties. Yes, yes I know before you even reply, they don't suit you, no room for your dog, no public transport to your work etc.

The average wage at last count was around 35kish or there abouts. It's probably a lot less now.

at 3xs your income this would put the average affordable home at 115k or so.

Where can you purchase a reasonable 3 bed house in a nice area for 115k?

OMD

gurramok wrote: »

In the real world it ain't a fact. Ghost estates in Leitrim\Westmeath etc which boost the numbers of low priced properties do not count in the real world of no demand in those areas.

Saying the line "that the average home in Ireland is affordable to a person on the average wage" needs to be examined and that was what I pulled you up upon.

It is a fact, however you look at it. The point with ghost estates is no one is buying them. They are not included in sales figures. If the banks/NAMA order they be sold at whatever price then yes that will in the future drive prices down further. They do not affect the current average national sales price. 3 months ago the ESRI/Permanent TSB survey said average price was 205K. Are they wrong?

You realise that what you are actually arguing is that house prices are not falling as much as people think. I have seen previous posts of yours where you say house prices are falling much more than people think.

gurramok wrote: »

Oh come on OMD. Did you even look where those 400 3beds are? Lets face it, you'd be lucky to find a handful in a safe area at your 205k price.

It is not my 205K asking price. As I have constantly said, this is a national figure. It is not the average price of a house gurramok wants to buy, in a nice area of Dublin where he can commute easily to work. I have said before prices are higher in Dublin.

OMD

ntlbell wrote: »

The average wage at last count was around 35kish or there abouts. It's probably a lot less now.

at 3xs your income this would put the average affordable home at 115k or so.

As I said before, it depends how you define affordable. I said I took the definition as a mortgage (over 25 years) that would cost less than 35% of take home pay and would leave more than €1500 left over a month after mortgage payments. That is a pretty fair and widely used method of determining affordability. As I keep on saying it does not mean prices cannot fall any more. I believe they will.

fliball123

Gurramok compared to other european countries Ireland would be one of the best for IT jobs. I work in one myself aswell, so do you. I dont know if there is a stat for IT jobs within the Dublin area but I would say a high percentage would be IT jobs.

I mean one other poster put up examples - so what is Ireland then as Agriculture historically is what we were at but is at an all time low.

My point is still valid about the foreign contingint that has invaded ireland Molly Molone is now Moley Staglawinsky as there are more Eastern Europeans, Brazilians, Ozzies, South Americans and Asians emigrating here over the last decade then ever before or do you deny.

My point being if Dublin had no international rep why are they coming?

ntlbell

fliball123 wrote: »

My point being if Dublin had no international rep why are they coming?

They're not coming anymore, they're all flooding back out the door.

They came because of over inflated wages.

fliball123

yeah my whole point here was within the last decade. Myself and Gurramok were arguing the fact that Dublin is not New York which I aggreed, but I said population wise Dublin has 1/4 the population of Ireland and such densly populated areas property prices will be higher than the likes of BallyJamesDuff.

I used New york and say a small 5th avenue appartment compared to say luxury ranch in Kansas and I bet the same applies you be paying nearly 10times more for the appartment in New York.

As for them leaving yeah there are people leaving but just on that in my company that employees 16 people 2 are polish, 1 yank , 1 russian and 1 lituanian...None want to go back home go figure.

fliball123

And why would they want to go home when even if they lose their job they are entitled too unusually high social welfare

ntlbell

fliball123 wrote: »

yeah my whole point here was within the last decade. Myself and Gurramok were arguing the fact that Dublin is not New York which I aggreed, but I said population wise Dublin has 1/4 the population of Ireland and such densly populated areas property prices will be higher than the likes of BallyJamesDuff.

I used New york and say a small 5th avenue appartment compared to say luxury ranch in Kansas and I bet the same applies you be paying nearly 10times more for the appartment in New York.

As for them leaving yeah there are people leaving but just on that in my company that employees 16 people 2 are polish, 1 yank , 1 russian and 1 lituanian...None want to go back home go figure.

why would they want to leave now? they're hired and probably earnging 3/4 times more than they could at home.

they're not here because Ireland is an international super star.

gurramok

OMD wrote: »

It is a fact, however you look at it. The point with ghost estates is no one is buying them. They are not included in sales figures. If the banks/NAMA order they be sold at whatever price then yes that will in the future drive prices down further. They do not affect the current average national sales price. 3 months ago the ESRI/Permanent TSB survey said average price was 205K. Are they wrong?

You realise that what you are actually arguing is that house prices are not falling as much as people think. I have seen previous posts of yours where you say house prices are falling much more than people think.

It is not my 205K asking price. As I have constantly said, this is a national figure. It is not the average price of a house gurramok wants to buy, in a nice area of Dublin where he can commute easily to work. I have said before prices are higher in Dublin.

What I'm arguing is that house prices are still too high for the 'average buyer' as you put it which you disagree with.

You quoted "The average home is now affordable to the average earner which it wasn't before". That's mostly based on where people do not want to live and the places where people do plump for at those prices are based for lower income buyers.(country towns)

No need to be condescending. I do not wish to live in a nice area of Dublin, I wish to live in a safe area of Dublin. Spot the difference.

fliball123 wrote: »

Gurramok compared to other european countries Ireland would be one of the best for IT jobs. I work in one myself aswell, so do you. I dont know if there is a stat for IT jobs within the Dublin area but I would say a high percentage would be IT jobs.

I mean one other poster put up examples - so what is Ireland then as Agriculture historically is what we were at but is at an all time low.

My point is still valid about the foreign contingint that has invaded ireland Molly Molone is now Moley Staglawinsky as there are more Eastern Europeans, Brazilians, Ozzies, South Americans and Asians emigrating here over the last decade then ever before or do you deny.

My point being if Dublin had no international rep why are they coming?

Of course, alot of foreigners work in IT here, I work along some. And how does this affect house prices exactly?

fliball123

ntlbell wrote: »

why would they want to leave now? they're hired and probably earnging 3/4 times more than they could at home.

they're not here because Ireland is an international super star.

Yeah but I know Polish guys who are unemployed and the conditions and social welfare is so much more here..My point being there is there seems to be more emigration of native Irish than people returning home...It would interesting to see figures I guess

fliball123

gurramok wrote: »

What I'm arguing is that house prices are still too high for the 'average buyer' as you put it which you disagree with.

You quoted "The average home is now affordable to the average earner which it wasn't before". That's mostly based on where people do not want to live and the places where people do plump for at those prices are based for lower income buyers.(country towns)

No need to be condescending. I do not wish to live in a nice area of Dublin, I wish to live in a safe area of Dublin. Spot the difference.



Of course, alot of foreigners work in IT here, I work along some. And how does this affect house prices exactly?

We were argueing the internation reputation of Dublin Ireland my point being why are so many foreigners interested in a sh1te town like dublin if it has a bad rep? Which you tried to make it out to be?

ntlbell

fliball123 wrote: »

Yeah but I know Polish guys who are unemployed and the conditions and social welfare is so much more here..My point being there is there seems to be more emigration of native Irish than people returning home...It would interesting to see figures I guess

But all the things your pointing to is us paying too much.

not that ireland is some sort of international phenonoma that everyone wants to come here because everything so great!

it's all about the $$

MuffinsDa

gurramok wrote: »

you just admitted it yourself with 'of course not on its own'

I didn't say Dublin is a Major IT centre, and I said that IT jobs on their own are not enough to prop up the economy.
However you assessment of IT jobs in Ireland which you used as an example and based your argument on was wrong, hence rendering your argument baseless.

gurramok wrote: »

There are maybe 400-500,000 jobs in Dublin, i'm sure one of you with all the know all will come up with an exact number. Those employers you listed would luckily reach 12,000 at best.

Yes. Maybe, and Luckily. So your point being...?

gurramok wrote: »

Read your own article:rolleyes: It says they employ 200 here with another 50 on the way.

Yes that's correct and that's what I said, and I furthermore added that they employ 6000+ employees worldwide so I don't know what you referring to as small. Their Irish operation probably?

gurramok wrote: »

So you cannot list a single house that is an attractive price to the average buyer. That sums it up really.

Yeah right... That sums it up... Let's leave it to other to decide what the sum is though. FYI I can give you many examples but didn't you say you do not want a "single" one firstly, and secondly, what's affordable, what's average, what's dublin?! What do you exactly want to be shown?

gurramok wrote: »

Oh come on OMD. Did you even look where those 400 3beds are? Lets face it, you'd be lucky to find a handful in a safe area at your 205k price.

So there ARE at least a handful of affordable houses that fit your criteria? Why are you asking me to point out a "single" one then. And if vast swaths of Dublin are unsafe and unfit for average then I think your average is a bit skewed...! now see... this is how YOU make an argument, just giving a taste of your own medicine.

fliball123

ntlbell wrote: »

But all the things your pointing to is us paying too much.

not that ireland is some sort of international phenonoma that everyone wants to come here because everything so great!

it's all about the $$

I aggree I am only pointing this out to Gurramok who I have argued that Dublin/Ireland has a good international reputation specifically for IT he then denies this even do he himself works in IT...

OMD

gurramok wrote: »

What I'm arguing is that house prices are still too high for the 'average buyer' as you put it which you disagree with.

You quoted "The average home is now affordable to the average earner which it wasn't before". That's mostly based on where people do not want to live and the places where people do plump for at those prices are based for lower income buyers.(country towns)

?

The average price is based on property sales. So, you were first saying that houses that are not selling in ghost estates are lowering the price. Now you are saying that these sales are happening in country towns where people are buying houses. However they do not actually want to live in these places. IT IS BASED ON SALES.

MuffinsDa

ntlbell wrote: »

I work for one you mentioned, we have no R&D in Dublin or Ireland for that matter and shipped all our manufacturing to middle Europe. So maybe it's time you brushed up!

Thanks for the correction. It's probably Symantec then? AFAIK all the ones I mentioned have either R&D or Services (sales, customer support, localization) in Ireland (which is what I mentioned in that post) but I'm happy to be corrected if one of them doesn't.

ntlbell

fliball123 wrote: »

I aggree I am only pointing this out to Gurramok who I have argued that Dublin/Ireland has a good international reputation specifically for IT he then denies this even do he himself works in IT...

Having a reputation for overpaying people is not one to be proud of

fliball123

OMD wrote: »

The average price is based on property sales. So, you were first saying that houses that are not selling in ghost estates are lowering the price. Now you are saying that these sales are happening in country towns where people are buying houses. However they do not actually want to live in these places.

I never said this??? All I said was that we will be going down a two tier system ghost estates aside I cannot see Prices in Dublin/Galway/Cork the more densily populated areas coming down much further I called a floor I said around another 12 months of decreases (just an opinion)

But Gurramok has kinda proved my point he wants to live in dublin but in a nice area but wants to only pay 20% of what there are worth (we all would) but I cant see it happening. So whats his options he stated areas where there are no druggies (let me tell you I have seen more coke in D4 areas than I have in the likes of Finglas over the northiside, its everywhere)

There is way too much vested interest ala the gov for the property to come down that low..Once again this is opinion

MuffinsDa

ntlbell wrote: »

Having a reputation for overpaying people is not one to be proud of

Bull****.

That must explain why some of the companies I mentioned are bringing highly-paid high end jobs here: they like overpaying people.

FYI, from my own person experience in a multinational company in Ireland, we still provide very good value for money compared to most of other competitors. Our company even prefers to hire people in Ireland than in India, even though wages are lower in India there are other factors that sways the overall cost (and decision) in favour of Ireland.

I am talking about Skilled IT R&D and Services jobs in Ireland now. Yes, Ireland has overpriced itself in manufacturing and it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

fliball123

MuffinsDa wrote: »

Bull****.

That must explain why some of the companies I mentioned are bringing highly-paid high end jobs here: they like overpaying people.

FYI, from my own person experience in a multinational company in Ireland, we still provide very good value for money compared to most of other competitors. Our company even prefers to hire people in Ireland than in India, even though wages are lower in India there are other factors that sways the overall cost (and decision) in favour of Ireland.

I aggree and disagree with this I spent 6 years in Trinity College at night and working to get where I am...and we Gaurds, nurses and the public sector getting paid as much...There are areas where we are overpaid but you find that in the private sector you usually get what your worth. (dont want to turn this into public vs private just an opinion)

ntlbell

fliball123 wrote: »

I never said this??? All I said was that we will be going down a two tier system ghost estates aside I cannot see Prices in Dublin/Galway/Cork the more densily populated areas coming down much further I called a floor I said around another 12 months of decreases (just an opinion)

But Gurramok has kinda proved my point he wants to live in dublin but in a nice area but wants to only pay 20% of what there are worth (we all would) but I cant see it happening. So whats his options he stated areas where there are no druggies (let me tell you I have seen more coke in D4 areas than I have in the likes of Finglas over the northiside, its everywhere)

There is way too much vested interest ala the gov for the property to come down that low..Once again this is opinion

People on this forum have been saying for the last 4 years.

I can't see them falling further.

They're leveling out.

It's a good time to buy now

blah blah blah blah

We have I think 6-7k people join the live register in may.

People being reduced to 3 day weeks

salries decreasing.

in december we're going to see higher taxes, another 6 months of a growing live register.

possible interest hikes

etc.

everything is pointing toward continued falling in house prices.

Nothing, not one thing is suggesting that prices are about to level out or stop falling.

Or nothing I've seen.

ntlbell

MuffinsDa wrote: »

Bull****.

That must explain why some of the companies I mentioned are bringing highly-paid high end jobs here: they like overpaying people.

FYI, from my own person experience in a multinational company in Ireland, we still provide very good value for money compared to most of other competitors. Our company even prefers to hire people in Ireland than in India, even though wages are lower in India there are other factors that sways the overall cost (and decision) in favour of Ireland.

I am talking about Skilled IT R&D and Services jobs in Ireland now. Yes, Ireland has overpriced itself in manufacturing and it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

They come for the low cooperate taxes.

they put up with having to pay higher wages.

gurramok

fliball123 wrote: »

We were argueing the internation reputation of Dublin Ireland my point being why are so many foreigners interested in a sh1te town like dublin if it has a bad rep? Which you tried to make it out to be?

Dublin ain't a sh1te town. Its has parts that are sh1te alright and parts that are entirely safe. Dublin ain't special either in the league of cities around Europe to justify high house prices.

Foreigners of the original EU pay less income tax here than they do on the continent hence more disposable income to send home to Germany/Spain etc.
Foreigners of the new EU(Poland) simply earn hell of alot more here than in Poland due to alot of higher salaries.
Thats what attracts them. Dublin ain't a 'bad rep' as you put, it just does not figure that high on the IT league table to be a 'major IT centre'

MuffinsDa wrote: »

I didn't say Dublin is a Major IT centre, and I said that IT jobs on their own are not enough to prop up the economy.
However you assessment of IT jobs in Ireland which you used as an example and based your argument on was wrong, hence rendering your argument baseless.

You're colleague fliball said it and you tried to back him up with your assertion of how Dublin is a big IT centre by listing the companies here.

MuffinsDa wrote: »

Yes. Maybe, and Luckily. So your point being...?

IT ain't big enough to justify the high house prices.

MuffinsDa wrote: »

Yes that's correct and that's what I said, and I furthermore added that they employ 6000+ employees worldwide so I don't know what you referring to as small. Their Irish operation probably?

Yes the locally employed 200.

MuffinsDa wrote: »

Yeah right... That sums it up... Let's leave it to other to decide what the sum is though. FYI I can give you many examples but didn't you say you do not want a "single" one firstly, and secondly, what's affordable, what's average, what's dublin?! What do you exactly want to be shown?

So there ARE at least a handful of affordable areas that fit your criteria? Why are you asking me to point out a "single" one then. And if vast swaths of Dublin are unsafe and unfit for average then I think your average is a bit skewed...!

Funny man. where did I say 'vast swathes of Dublin are unsafe and unfit for the average buyer' ??

I'm arguing the only areas that are available for the average buyer looking to buy at 205k are unsafe ones, agree?

Show us the examples then.

OMD wrote:

The average price is based on property sales. So, you were first saying that houses that are not selling in ghost estates are lowering the price. Now you are saying that these sales are happening in country towns where people are buying houses. However they do not actually want to live in these places. IT IS BASED ON SALES.

Where did I say there is a bouyant market with buyers?

And where is your sales data?