Cancellara Engine Conspiracy....You Decide!

jdt101

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nd13ARuvVE

SACH Central

Jees what next. Great video. It does look extremely dodgy.

anoble66

listen to the noise off it.....surely that would of easily been picked up if someone was using it.

SACH Central

SACH Central wrote: »

Jees what next. Great video. It does look extremely dodgy.

No it doesn't, that's the biggest load of bollox I've seen a long while, the 2 presenters could barely stifle their laughter. He's clearly just shifting gears, if you look closely in the tour of flanders clip you can see the actual gear lever moving. He changed gear before attacking, like pretty much any cyclist from my club's league race right up to Paris-Roubaix. I mean christ what are they getting at-"shock, horror, 3 time world time trial champ time trials his way to victory in a race".

jwshooter

can you buy it on line ?

SubLuminal

Also it'd weigh a bunch, I recently picked up one of the bikes that the an-post guys were running in the Ras and it was feather light, I think someone said it came in at 1005 grammes or something, seriously it was insanely light.. the weight of a motor would be extremely obvious.

Joxer_S

Surely there is no way the extra weight of that mechanism and battery would go unnoticed, aren't all bikes checked that they conform to the UCI limits?

jwshooter

stop now guys ,there is people laughing .


i want one .:eek:

Wibbs

Can I have a 3 litre V10 version? It would equalise me against the grannies who pass me on the way to the shops.

Capt'n Midnight

if you look at the size of batteries on electric bikes, then figure out how many torch cell batteries you could fit in the tubes, and Lithium batteries are light


but where is the motor all you've got in the rear wheel are ball bearings
http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/bbmotor.html LOL

petethedrummer

They'll need an X-ray machine at all races now.

iregk

A couple of things immediately jumped out at me here.

1 - I'm not bothered by the weight as surely if this thing was real the additional weight gains of carrying this would be out weighed by the additional performance you'd get. That said as this is the old F1 head coming out in me. Don't all bikes go back into some sort of Parc Ferme where they get checked over by officials? Surely they would notice the additional mechanics.

2 - Shimmano Di2 electronic shifters place the bateries on the outside of the frame. Why haven't they jumped on this and placed their mechanics inside the frame? Or is this gizmo the new Dura Ace Di3? We have fly by wire shifting now fly by wire pedaling?

Lumen

iregk wrote: »

2 - Shimmano Di2 electronic shifters place the bateries on the outside of the frame. Why haven't they jumped on this and placed their mechanics inside the frame?

I believe there are now frames available which support an internal battery configuration. This was perhaps pioneered by the same weightweenie who sanded his Time frame; he said that there wasn't any real advantage to the internal battery besides making his bike easier to clean.

As other posters have pointed out, the main issue with the currently available bottom bracket motor product (which has been covered extensively by the cycling press in the last year) is the noise.

I do not believe any cycling team would be so stupid as to attempt to use this. I suspect it's more likely to be a marketing ruse by the company which developed the product.

Junior

Lumen wrote: »

I believe there are now frames available which support an internal battery configuration. This was perhaps pioneered by the same weightweenie who sanded his Time frame; he said that there wasn't any real advantage to the internal battery besides making his bike easier to clean.

As other posters have pointed out, the main issue with the currently available bottom bracket motor product (which has been covered extensively by the cycling press in the last year) is the noise.

I do not believe any cycling team would be so stupid as to attempt to use this. I suspect it's more likely to be a marketing ruse by the company which developed the product.

Not so sure about internal battery config, as most of them now have a flat spot on the frame for the battery attachment.

This however makes interesting reading http://www.bikebiz.com/news/32235/Former-pro-says-mechanised-doping-is-real

TinyExplosions

Lumen wrote: »

I do not believe any cycling team would be so stupid as to attempt to use this. I suspect it's more likely to be a marketing ruse by the company which developed the product.

+1 on that, it's just to loud and too risky to try... also, with the amount of press taking pictures of racers bikes before stages etc, someone would notice a guy who consistently swapped bikes in a race... it's all PR imo

fran oconnor

TinyExplosions wrote: »

+1 on that, it's just to loud and too risky to try... also, with the amount of press taking pictures of racers bikes before stages etc, someone would notice a guy who consistently swapped bikes in a race... it's all PR imo

did Cancellara not swap bikes halfway through one the stages this year in the Paris-Roubaix or something..i just remember someone had a vid of him changing bikes real quick??.

bcmf

it does seem a bit far fetched alrite.
Though it kinda makes you think about the bike changes during the race.
I remember Boonen changing his bike at P-R last year. And Spartacus this year!! But what if they managed to qieten down the motor and not tell anyone!!??
<- CT is that way I suppose

fran oconnor

tour of flanders is where he swapped bike..

spyderski

SubLuminal wrote: »

Also it'd weigh a bunch, I recently picked up one of the bikes that the an-post guys were running in the Ras and it was feather light, I think someone said it came in at 1005 grammes or something, seriously it was insanely light.. the weight of a motor would be extremely obvious.

Minimum UCI weight of a race bike is 6.8KG, they can be built much lighter than this, so with a kilo of motor they could still come in as light as the An Post bike you lifted. I think noise, rather than weight is the biggest technical impediment to this.
I'd be very sceptical about the use of motors, but the performance difference between Cancellara & the others is incredible - if he's not using a motor he's just in a different league!!

Lumen

spyderski wrote: »

I'd be very sceptical about the use of motors, but the performance difference between Cancellara & the others is incredible - if he's not using a motor he's just in a different league!!

The bit in that video where he accelerates - I don't see the problem here, it's completely normal to go balls out when attacking, and staying in the saddle is normal for larger riders.

In the Tour of Flanders (if I'm remembering the correct race) the problem for Boonen was that no-one else would help him chase. It isn't surprising in that case that a TT specialist would beat a sprinter over that sort of distance.

leftism

spyderski wrote: »

I'd be very sceptical about the use of motors, but the performance difference between Cancellara & the others is incredible - if he's not using a motor he's just in a different league!!

+1. The breakaway from the group in Paris-Roubaix was incredible! I initially thought the motoried bicycle story must be a smoke screen fabricated to divert some of the attention away from the more common pharmacological cheating. All the same, its was a very interesting video.

Is there no bicycle control at these races? I used to kayak competitively and boat control before and after the races was incredibly strict. They would swab the surface of the boats to test for any chemicals being used reduce drag in the water. Boat dimensions were also scrutinised very closely. Even the shape and position of the rudder were under strict scrutiny.

Surely the UCI should be inspecting all bikes pre and post-race???

niceonetom

Here's Cancellara's win in the TDF in 2007. Notice how he has always been capable up putting down maximum power while sitting and with his hands on the tops or hoods of the bars. Yes most other riders have to stand and haul the bike from side to side, that's simply not the way he does it. So his attacks always look strange.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQAyXfUOO4

Murph100

They also say in the first clip of Spartacus that he accelerated whilst sitting in the saddle, but the clip clearly shows him powering up out of the saddle before sitting down to grind the bigger gear.

They must have missed that in their edit

TinyExplosions

fran oconnor wrote: »

did Cancellara not swap bikes halfway through one the stages this year in the Paris-Roubaix or something..i just remember someone had a vid of him changing bikes real quick??.

fran oconnor wrote: »

tour of flanders is where he swapped bike..

Yes indeed, but I'm suggesting he'd need at least two changes, one at the start so he could go from his 'normal' bike to his juiced up one, and one where he gets back on the 'normal' bike.

As for the 'look at him push a button' brigade, lets start a new theory, it's a super secret prototype of a SRAM wireless groupo

bcmf

SRAM wireless......now you are really spreading durtty rumours

100Suns

Can Pro Cycling be given the benefit of the doubt? It would be catastophic for the sport if Cancellaro in particaular was done but I'm sure there's no evidence that can be relied upon now unelss a whistle blower comes forward but cycling/UCI doesn't have a great track record there either. It would be a shame if this controversy overshadowed what was a sublime performance in the Classics. I'm not a fan of having to prove a negative but with cycling's history I'd like to see something definitive come from Cancellaro/Saxobank/Speciailised.

TinyExplosions

bcmf wrote: »

SRAM wireless......now you are really spreading durtty rumours

It's a dirty rumour, but I'd love it to come true!

Lumen

100Suns wrote: »

It would be a shame if this controversy overshadowed what was a sublime performance in the Classics.

What controversy? It's just wild speculation.

thebouldwhacker

Well imho its very easy to find out if it true or not.

Step 1: Look at the brake leaver for a button.

Step 2: Remove the saddle and put a stick down the tube, if it doesn't go down the distance it should there is something down there that shouldn't be.

No need for x rays or any hassle, it would take seconds to do each bike before a race start.

On saying that any team in any sport will try to gain an advantage if they can get away with it...illegal aerodynamics in F1, pockmarked balls in cricket, fake blood injuries in rugby, hell even Cork were found out switching Sliotars to gain an advantage. If the technology exists for such devices then it should be taken into account when organising tests to identify cheating. Whether or not they are being used no one knows until the bikes are checked, if they are then it can be ruled out or dealt with.
Otherwise atari jaguar......

petethedrummer

To make it quiet they could be using some sort of alien technology leaked from the American government.

There's only one man who could answer this for definite.

dave2pvd

That video is hilarious. Good PR though.

BTW: just to add to the conspiracy, a gearmotor such as the concept shown in the video can be engineered to be almost silent.

Lumen

dave2pvd wrote: »

BTW: just to add to the conspiracy, a gearmotor such as the concept shown in the video can be engineered to be almost silent.

Group buy?

Junior

TinyExplosions wrote: »

It's a dirty rumour, but I'd love it to come true!

I'll ask my mate in Sram ..

Lumen

Junior wrote: »

I'll ask my mate in Sram ..

Don't do it, they'll double tap him for industrial espionage.

TinyExplosions

Lumen wrote: »

Don't do it, they'll double tap him for industrial espionage.

*sigh*.... you should be banned for that Lumen

IM0

I thought this thread was going to be related to valverde's when you used engine and the words 'you decide'

IM0

Lumen wrote: »

Group buy?

it doesnt work if everyone has one though :rolleyes:

irishmotorist

I think this is too dodgy looking to be real - if you look at the video, there's lots of cutting between shots when the button is pushed. Anything such as putting on a fixed gear could have happened between the shots.

I'm not sure it would be too loud though - in theory. That video is in quiet surroundings and sure, you can hear it. On the type of pro race they showed where Cancelara was accelerating, there are several riders there (all making a little bit of noise) a huge crowd and motor bikes. I don't think it would be unreasonable for that small sound to go unheard and of course it could be timed for when things are particularly noisy!

blobbie

Sponsored by Steorn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn

iregk

TinyExplosions wrote: »

*sigh*.... you should be banned for that Lumen

Have to say, it made me chuckle

uberwolf

I hadn't seen that footage of those races before. He goes away from them without even looking like trying. That kind of in the saddle acceleration, from the speed they are already doing is pretty extraordinary stuff. And for no one to be able to respond even briefly...

Capt'n Midnight

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

Well imho its very easy to find out if it true or not.

Step 1: Look at the brake leaver for a button.

Step 2: Remove the saddle and put a stick down the tube, if it doesn't go down the distance it should there is something down there that shouldn't be.

No need for x rays or any hassle, it would take seconds to do each bike before a race start.

On saying that any team in any sport will try to gain an advantage if they can get away with it...illegal aerodynamics in F1, pockmarked balls in cricket, fake blood injuries in rugby, hell even Cork were found out switching Sliotars to gain an advantage. If the technology exists for such devices then it should be taken into account when organising tests to identify cheating. Whether or not they are being used no one knows until the bikes are checked, if they are then it can be ruled out or dealt with.
Otherwise atari jaguar......

They could be using wireless technology buttons not needed.

A much simplier method is to weigh the bike.

Maybe attach a tamper proof GPS to it to check if the bike is switched (or bluetooth or sputnik or device that can be tracked by the race marshals)

niceonetom

An excellent and thorough analysis of the engine conspiracy here. He uses graphs and therefore wins. You cannot argue with graphs.

It's sad that such a preposterous bit of speculation has blown up to the point where it's being taken seriously by some who should really know better (and by almost everyone who knows nothing about cycling except that 'they're all cheaters, aren't they?'). Now, I'd be very reluctant to aver that FC won his classics entirely unaided, but using an engine in his seat-tube is a theory that should have been laughed down before getting any momentum.

It is an awesome complement for him though, isn't it? What must it be like to be such an animal on the bike that people simply don't that any human could do what you've done. I'm still holding on to my cyborg theory. If they're going to x-ray the bike, they should x-ray the rider too.

ROK ON

If people are to cheat I would rather it to be intravenously as opposed to electronically.


Bear in mind that on RVV, TB broke away with FC. Guys get dropped on the bergs all the time.
In PR no one wanted to chase (other than TB). Conspiracy over.

What will be fascinating is to see how FC finishes the year. Someone here previously mentioned that quiet spells in his career in the past were down to the fact that his performances raised questions.

Bluefoam

ROK ON wrote: »

If people are to cheat I would rather it to be intravenously as opposed to electronically.


Bear in mind that on RVV, TB broke away with FC. Guys get dropped on the bergs all the time.
In PR no one wanted to chase (other than TB). Conspiracy over.

What will be fascinating is to see how FC finishes the year. Someone here previously mentioned that quiet spells in his career in the past were down to the fact that his performances raised questions.

FFS IMHO TMA LOL

Fredo

From the French newspaper "L'equipe" yesterday
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2010/20100601_175537_cancellara-nie.html
Second paragraph, UCI has planned to check bikes as from the Tour de France. [...] no enquiry will be started about Cancellara.

teufelswerk

Fredo wrote: »

From the French newspaper "L'equipe" yesterday
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2010/20100601_175537_cancellara-nie.html
Second paragraph, UCI has planned to check bikes as from the Tour de France. [...] no enquiry will be started about Cancellara.

I like his comment in the article where he said he didn't have batteries on his bike.
«C'est tellement fou que je n'ai pas de mots. Je n'ai jamais eu de batteries sur mon vélo».

The accusation is that he had the batteries in his bike so I'd like to see him address the accusation directly. We assume that he would have concealed the batteries.

niceonetom

He didn't explicitly deny having a dozen Ni-Cads up his bottom either - I think we should take that as an admission that he did.

iregk

Full cavity search after each stage for everyone so...

buffalo

teufelswerk wrote: »

I like his comment in the article where he said he didn't have batteries on his bike.
«C'est tellement fou que je n'ai pas de mots. Je n'ai jamais eu de batteries sur mon vélo».

The accusation is that he had the batteries in his bike so I'd like to see him address the accusation directly. We assume that he would have concealed the batteries.

Because after cheating in a race, he wouldn't have the audacity to lie about it?

Junior

Some American bloggers have way too much time on their hands but there is some real interesting science behind this post and well worth a read

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2010/06/anatomy-of-cancellara-attack.html