Oldies are most important part of a team

Cypher_sounds

Ok im just watching the Ac Milan v Chicago Fire friendly and just realise what Holland could be missing out in the world cup in not picking a player like Seedorf, he is the only player to have won the CL with 3 different clubs(according to wiki) and has lots of experience.

Teams like Italy show just how important it is to have tried and tested old heads in their team, so just wondering with all their talent has WC countries like Holland and France who left out Viera and Brazil who left out Ronaldhino made a bad call leaving out such players??

jesus_thats_gre

Are you a United supporter by any chance?

Cypher_sounds

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Are you a United supporter by any chance?

What has that got to do with this thread, there should be more threads made about football on different aspects to discuss, dont hate im just asking in general not just International football.

Le King

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Ok im just watching the Ac Milan v Chicago Fire friendly and just realise what Holland could be missing out in the world cup in not picking a player like Seedorf, he is the only player to have won the CL with 3 different clubs and has lots of experience(according to wiki)

Teams like Italy show just how important it is to have tried and tested old heads in their team, so just wondering with all their talent has WC countries like Holland and France who left out Viera and Brazil who left out Ronaldhino made a bad call leaving out such players??

Viera was poor with City. I don't think he has enough to offer France to jusify a selection in the 23.

Ronaldinho was a victim of Dunga's "Defensive Midfielder" fetish. Kaka is the only real creative player that will influence the team and despite Ronaldinho having a better season than he did last year he is still left out. Which is unfortunate.

AFAIK Seedorf has a Hip problem which is making him lose a lot of time on the pitch. He'd be a great player to have in the camp, I'd imagine, plus, IMO, he'd offer more than one or two players in the final Dutch 23.

Biggest "experience" omission from a WC squad is Cambiasso, which is barely short of a crime.

I'd put my money on Argentina to win the WC, if Maradona wasn't the manager and Riquelme and Cambiasso were back in the Argentinian XI.

Cypher_sounds

Osu wrote: »

Viera was poor with City. I don't think he has enough to offer France to jusify a selection in the 23.

Ronaldinho was a victim of Dunga's "Defensive Midfielder" fetish. Kaka is the only real creative player that will influence the team and despite Ronaldinho having a better season than he did last year he is still left out. Which is unfortunate.

AFAIK Seedorf has a Hip problem which is making him lose a lot of time on the pitch. He'd be a great player to have in the camp, I'd imagine, plus, IMO, he'd offer more than one or two players in the final Dutch 23.

Biggest "experience" omission from a WC squad is Cambiasso, which is barely short of a crime.

I'd put my money on Argentina to win the WC, if Maradona wasn't the manager and Riquelme and Cambiasso were back in the Argentinian XI.

I agree, Cambiasso deserves to be there after his performances with Inter this season, hes been playing quality football this year and at 29(30 in august) time is not on his side as regards getting another chance at playing in a WC, he must be bitterly dissapointed not to have been included in Maradona's WC squad.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mourinho touched on this point recently about older players. I found it fascinating as the general school of thought in football seems to be younger players > older players.

"I like players in the final part of their careers."

"I love to have some players who are 33 or 34 years old...they are players that you buy and you won't recover this money, but if they give you good performances for two or three years you've got your money's worth."

I think you need a good mix.

Cypher_sounds

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Mourinho touched on this point recently about older players. I found it fascinating as the general school of thought in football seems to be younger players > older players.



I think you need a good mix.

Yes Mourhino signed Lucio(32) last summer and along with Samuel(32) he has made them very very solid this season and they work well together, they both used to be a bit erratic Samuel moreso, hence why he only spent one season at Real Madrid in 2004/2005 even though they spent €25 million for his services.
But yeah they were a big factor in Inter Milans success this year

Coillte_Bhoy

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Ok im just watching the Ac Milan v Chicago Fire friendly and just realise what Holland could be missing out in the world cup in not picking a player like Seedorf, he is the only player to have won the CL with 3 different clubs(according to wiki) and has lots of experience.

Teams like Italy show just how important it is to have tried and tested old heads in their team, so just wondering with all their talent has WC countries like Holland and France who left out Viera and Brazil who left out Ronaldhino made a bad call leaving out such players??

According to wiki you say??? Enough said about your fotball knowledge.

Cypher_sounds

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

According to wiki you say??? Enough said about your fotball knowledge.

Yeah i didnt know that before i seen it there, what has that got to do with my all round football knowledge?? Moreso what has your post got to do with this thread?
If you don't want to comment on what this thread is about then your not welcome to comment. Not everyone knows these little facts about the CL, oh maybe you know everything there is to know about football is that what your getting at.
Well blimey i do apologise for not knowing all the facts about football.:rolleyes:

If you want to be like that enough said about how illiterate you are when you cant even spell football properly.

TheDoc

Too many dickheads around here trying to be football gurus as if its impressive.

Fair play OP for making a decent thread that isnt premier league supporters blowing smoke up each others bums.


Cambiasso was a shocking decision as I think all can agree.

That argentina team doesnt stand a chance with that wally at the helm and I fear he is next in line in the " Great players, rubbish manager" bin

m@cc@

Osu wrote: »

AFAIK Seedorf has a Hip problem which is making him lose a lot of time on the pitch. He'd be a great player to have in the camp, I'd imagine, plus, IMO, he'd offer more than one or two players in the final Dutch 23.

Seedorf fell out with Van Basten primarily because MVB favoured Sneijder and Van Der Vaart in that position. Not really the team player you'd be looking for at a World Cup. Squad morale is at an all-time high in the Dutch camp, bringing in Seedorf would not be a positive step, imo.

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

According to wiki you say??? Enough said about your fotball knowledge.

Shut up!

Ush1

TheDoc wrote: »

Too many dickheads around here trying to be football gurus as if its impressive.

Fair play OP for making a decent thread that isnt premier league supporters blowing smoke up each others bums.


Cambiasso was a shocking decision as I think all can agree.

That argentina team doesnt stand a chance with that wally at the helm and I fear he is next in line in the " Great players, rubbish manager" bin

Well Cambiasso wasn't left out because of his age. I mean, Palermo is in the squad!

Cypher_sounds

A player im suprised not to see make the Spain squad is Marcos Senna(33), after a great Euro 2008 where he was named in the UEFA's squad for the competition. Some pundits and journalists also named Senna as their player of the tournament.
I know there are some great midfielders already in the Spanish squad but i thought he was a great central midfielder and it would be good to have him around the camp too for his experience.

MementoMori

The Dutch are taking van Brockhurst so I don't think they are going to be that stuck for experience - made his international debut in 1996 according to wiki. He is to retire after the World Cup supposedly.

Overall I think it's a matter of getting a balance in any squad.

I did think before the start of last season that I thought that Chelsea's age profile would count against them, with so many of their big guns in the 30+ zone. Obviously that didn't work out as I imagined.

Once a player goes over 30 the player is in the final stages of their career and it's just a matter of how long they can keep going. Sure there are exceptions (freaks like Giggs) but I feel once a player hits 30 it's a a matter of time and for the most part you are waiting for their level of performances to decrease.

I'd also imagine that their is an age level at which players start to pick up injuries easily and take longer to recover as a simple normal function of aging. Would be interesting to see if there were any stats available for when this age barrier is -28, 30, 32. I'd imagine that whatever companies specialise in insuring football players would probably have some of this info but I'd doubt they would be willing to share it. Keepers are obviously an exception. Would say for a keeper it's once they go over 35 they are in the final stage of their career.

On Mourinho's comments it works in the short-term but if you buy in a raft of experienced older players you will probably get a good year or two out of them but the chances of getting three to five years out of them is pretty remote. This will have a big effect on the club's transfer spend as all of these players are unlikely to recoup any of their transfer fee and you will have to replace them pretty soon. It's fine it you are at a club for something like three years but if you are staying at a club for 5+ years it would mean a massive issue with the transfer spend. Would be interesting to see if he adopted this approach if he planned to be at a club long-term [ Did see something about their being a clause in his Real Madrid contract about him being able to leave in 2 years time - Utd job perchance? ]

Ush1

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

A player im suprised not to see make the Spain squad is Marcos Senna(33), after a great Euro 2008 where he was named in the UEFA's squad for the competition. Some pundits and journalists also named Senna as their player of the tournament.
I know there are some great midfielders already in the Spanish squad but i thought he was a great central midfielder and it would be good to have him around the camp too for his experience.

Injury problems have Senna left out. They will miss him bigtime I reckon.

TheTosh

Cambiasso wasn't the only one Zanetti was left out of the squad too

Cypher_sounds

Ush1 wrote: »

Injury problems have Senna left out. They will miss him bigtime I reckon.

Yeah hes a top player, hes had injury problems during the season but he still managed 30 games for Villarreal. He was in the preliminary 30-man squad for Spain, not sure if he got injured after that?

eZe^

Spain have enough experienced old heads in Xavi, Marchena, Puyol, Iker Casillas and Albelda to get them through.

Cypher_sounds

MementoMori wrote: »

On Mourinho's comments it works in the short-term but if you buy in a raft of experienced older players you will probably get a good year or two out of them but the chances of getting three to five years out of them is pretty remote. This will have a big effect on the club's transfer spend as all of these players are unlikely to recoup any of their transfer fee and you will have to replace them pretty soon. It's fine it you are at a club for something like three years but if you are staying at a club for 5+ years it would mean a massive issue with the transfer spend. Would be interesting to see if he adopted this approach if he planned to be at a club long-term [ Did see something about their being a clause in his Real Madrid contract about him being able to leave in 2 years time - Utd job perchance? ]

I think Madrid suit mourinho down to the ground as regards buying players, because they can be so erratic in that department, i wouldn't be suprised to see one or two chelsea or even inter players in their 30's go to Madrid soon for their defence.
Will be interesting to see how the team plays under him, surely not an all out attacking mourinho team? Either way i think he will be gone by the end of his 2nd season, maybe to take over from a golden oldie manager perhaps:)

Seaneh

Osu wrote: »

AFAIK Seedorf has a Hip problem which is making him lose a lot of time on the pitch. He'd be a great player to have in the camp, I'd imagine, plus, IMO, he'd offer more than one or two players in the final Dutch 23.

First I've heard of it... He retired from international football a few years ago ebcause he didn't get on with the coach. Don't know if he has made himself available again though. He's a good player but TBH I don't think, at 34, he is a huge loss to them. he's a handy squad player at Milan, nothing more.

MementoMori

Seaneh wrote: »

First I've heard of it... He retired from international football a few years ago ebcause he didn't get on with the coach. Don't know if he has made himself available again though. He's a good player but TBH I don't think, at 34m he is a huge loss to them. he's a handy squad player at Milan, nothing more.

34 million years old........feck that's experienced:p

TheTosh

MementoMori wrote: »

34 million years old........feck that's experienced:p

He looks well for his age too and doesn't look a day over 35

eagle eye

Experience is a huge thing in a squad but it can work both ways really.

You have older players who will bust their gut at the end of their careers and give that little bit more. You also have players that hang around too long and get into a side because of their reputation. 1998 is a good example where Bebeto played with the young Ronaldo and Edmundo was the left on the bench. This was a case of an old legend getting his game when there were clearly better options.

Cambiasso is a good shout, he has been playing great football and has experience, this is the type of guy you want in your squad. He did miss a penalty of course in the last world cup, who knows maybe thats the reason he was left out, I don't know.

eagle eye

Actually I think the Netherlands is a good example of where the better experienced players are not playing for them. Van der Sar is clearly still the best Dutch goalkeeper but he retired from the International scene years ago, and of course Seedorf as the op says who is such a fine player.

Coillte_Bhoy

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Yeah i didnt know that before i seen it there, what has that got to do with my all round football knowledge?? Moreso what has your post got to do with this thread?
If you don't want to comment on what this thread is about then your not welcome to comment. Not everyone knows these little facts about the CL, oh maybe you know everything there is to know about football is that what your getting at.
Well blimey i do apologise for not knowing all the facts about football.:rolleyes:

If you want to be like that enough said about how illiterate you are when you cant even spell football properly.

I apologise. It was a smart ass comment. Stupid of me.

Cypher_sounds

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I apologise. It was a smart ass comment. Stupid of me.

Its cool man everyone gets mad notions to make smart comments every now and again, apology accepted.