Aid Floatillas Attacked

EuskalHerria

I wouldn't be starting a political thread in here if it wasn't so serious and needed immediate attention. If people could try not to deviate away from the main issue here it would be appreciated as this is important and something that extends beyond merely politics, but has become a humanitarian issue

Reports coming in at the minute, and hopefully will turn out not to be false in the morning, that volunteers on the boats bringing badly needed aid and supplies to Gaza were killed when the IDF opened fire on them leaving some injured and a reported 3 dead.

It would astonish me if this did not become a huge international issue. The agenda of those on the ships were clear and yet Israel continued, in international waters, to fire on innocent men and women only trying to deliver much needed aid to a region that has been crippled by blockades. I Believe ,in case of a situation like this, many political activists from across the world and many media representatives were included on the flotilla to document what goes on. So hopefully a transparent report of events will come to light very soon.

As I'm typing there is live footage on this link http://www.livestream.com/insaniyardim, you can hear gunfire as IDF soldiers are lowered upon one of the vessels.

There can be no justification for any of these actions by the IDF, regardless of anyone being dead which is still obviously unconfirmed among all the commotion aboard the flotillas. In international waters attacking ships trying to deliver aid is outrageous and any right minded individual would condemn this.

Jimmy Garlic

They have killed at least two people and injured 30 according to Al Jazeera..

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/201053133047995359.html

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

EuskalHerria wrote: »

I wouldn't be starting a political thread in here if it wasn't so serious and needed immediate attention. If people could try not to deviate away from the main issue here it would be appreciated as this is important and something that extends beyond merely politics, but has become a humanitarian issue

Reports coming in at the minute, and hopefully will turn out not to be false in the morning, that volunteers on the boats bringing badly needed aid and supplies to Gaza were killed when the IDF opened fire on them leaving some injured and a reported 3 dead.

It would astonish me if this did not become a huge international issue. The agenda of those on the ships were clear and yet Israel continued, in international waters, to fire on innocent men and women only trying to deliver much needed aid to a region that has been crippled by blockades. I Believe ,in case of a situation like this, many political activists from across the world and many media representatives were included on the flotilla to document what goes on. So hopefully a transparent report of events will come to light very soon.

As I'm typing there is live footage on this link http://www.livestream.com/insaniyardim, you can hear gunfire as IDF soldiers are lowered upon one of the vessels.

There can be no justification for any of these actions by the IDF, regardless of anyone being dead which is still obviously unconfirmed among all the commotion aboard the flotillas. In international waters attacking ships trying to deliver aid is outrageous and any right minded individual would condemn this.

"Hopefully they turn out to be false" - in other words, not only did you arrogantly ignore the sub-forums (there is a humanities forum) you also posted that rant before waiting to find out if it's even true? Are you a journalist??

EuskalHerria

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

They have killed at least two people and injured 30 according to Al Jazeera..

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/201053133047995359.html

Just a short extract from the article:

Israeli forces have attacked a flotilla of aid-carrying ships aiming to break the country's siege on Gaza, according to a Turkish aid agency being quoted by Turkish media.
At least two people were killed and more than 30 people injured, the report said early on Monday.
Footage from the flotilla's lead vessel, the Mavi Marmara, appeared to show armed Israeli soldiers boarding the ship and helicopters flying overhead.

jimi_t2

Ah yes, Al Jazeera.

Humanitarian orientated liberal media at its finest.

EuskalHerria

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Ah yes, Al Jazeera.

Humanitarian orientated liberal media at its finest.

Regardless of the media outlet reporting it, if its true then it is shocking. The information has come from a Turkish Aid agency as well and is just being reported by Al Jazeera. Hopefully it will be reported by news agencies to your satisfaction soon.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Ah yes, Al Jazeera.

Humanitarian orientated liberal media at its finest.

Ah yes, liberal.

Let's call it liberal so people will automatically know that it's something they're not supposed to like. At its finest.

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Regardless of the media outlet reporting it, if its true then it is shocking. The information has come from a Turkish Aid agency as well and is just being reported by Al Jazeera. Hopefully it will be reported by news agencies to your satisfaction soon.

The BBC are using the word "intercepted" as opposed to "fired upon".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm

EuskalHerria

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The BBC are using the word "intercepted" as opposed to "fired upon".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm

I'd imagine that they are being cautious about how things are being reported at the minute, Which is only fair given the fact that nothing is known for certain as of yet. If there has been volunteers murdered then I would hope that they will not shy away from reporting what has happened.

EuskalHerria

Really hoping this is not true but it is coming from the twiter of the Free Gaza movement, who organised this delivery of aid.

Our Israeli attorney in Haifa has said that ten people have been murdered

And that the boats are being hauled into Haifa and not Ashdod so that journalists are not there

http://twitter.com/freegazaorg

jimi_t2

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Ah yes, liberal.

Let's call it liberal so people will automatically know that it's something they're not supposed to like. At its finest.

Eh, I think your sarcasm filter might be clogged.

Since when could Al Jazeera ever be considered liberal?

But yeah, we've reports from some Turkey aid agency, unconfirmed reports from the Free Gaza movement and Al Jazeera.

I'm just saying I'll wait a little while before making judgement - thats all.

EuskalHerria

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

"Hopefully they turn out to be false" - in other words, not only did you arrogantly ignore the sub-forums (there is a humanities forum) you also posted that rant before waiting to find out if it's even true? Are you a journalist??

The ship has definitely been attacked. People have definitely been seriously injured. The ships have been taken over by the IDF in international waters. What is unknown at this time is whether or not anyone has been brutally murdered during this.

EuskalHerria

jimi_t2 wrote: »

I'm just saying I'll wait a little while before making judgement - thats all.

Apologies but it is late, so my sarcasm detector is definitely asleep even if I amn't.

Like I said there is no confirmation yet of the reported murders, but everything else is definite. A flotilla has been attacked in international waters while trying to deliver much needed aid to Gaza.

Fremen

It's up on BBC news now:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm

The Israelis called the boats "provocation intended to delegitimise Israel".
Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.

mikemac

Well it's up on the BBC now and that's pretty reliable source
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10195838.stm

However Israel had declared there was a blockade in place and this unarmed ship tried to break it.
Did they think the IDF would sit back and allow it to pass?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

jimi_t2 wrote: »

Eh, I think your sarcasm filter might be clogged.

Since when could Al Jazeera ever be considered liberal?

But yeah, we've reports from some Turkey aid agency, unconfirmed reports from the Free Gaza movement and Al Jazeera.

I'm just saying I'll wait a little while before making judgement - thats all.

Trouble is, there are plenty of people around here who would post what you posted while being serious.

jimi_t2

Ok, just from reading the news reports.

The six-ship flotilla left international waters off the coast of Cyprus on Sunday and was expected to arrive in Gaza later on Monday.

Israel has said it would stop the boats, calling the campaign a "provocation intended to delegitimise Israel".

The interception reportedly took place in international waters, more than 150km (90 miles) off the coast of Gaza.

The ships are carrying 10,000 tonnes of aid to the Gaza Strip in an effort to break an Israeli blockade.

They're not going to get touched for this. Civilians or otherwise, they publicly said they were going to run a military blockade into an area occupied by Hamas. The Israeli's said ''no you won't'' and made it clear they'd see it as provocation. They then intercepted them in international waters en route and shots were fired for reasons we can only speculate at at the moment.

I'm not saying they were right, or remotely justifiable, but this isn't quite the N.Korean-esque alarmism that people seem to be assuming. Let's all take a deep breath and wait for the Western world to get out of bed so we can get all the facts.

EuskalHerria

feelingstressed wrote: »

However Israel had declared there was a blockade in place and this unarmed ship tried to break it.
Did they think the IDF would sit back and allow it to pass?

They knew there would be an attempt by Israel to try and stop the Aid getting through the blockade they have imposed upon Gaza.
The point of this was of course to get Aid through to Gaza. It was done with international backing and all the contents of the ships were checked before hand and shown to be of no threat to Israel, it was simply badly needed aid.

I don't think anybody saw a reaction to the flotilla of this nature. I'd like to say i'm shocked but the IDF are a law unto themselves.

smithy1981

feelingstressed wrote: »

Well it's up on the BBC now and that's pretty reliable source
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10195838.stm

However Israel had declared there was a blockade in place andi this unarmed ship tried to break it.
Did they think the IDF would sit back and allow it to pass?

Israels blockade is illegal, and it was an aid convoy full of charity workers, politicians and journalists and they had no right to stop it, Nevermind attack it.

Israel have made a big mistake if the murders turn out to be true. It's another disgraceful act from them but who's really suprised?

EuskalHerria

jimi_t2 wrote: »

They're not going to get touched for this. Civilians or otherwise, they publicly said they were going to run a military blockade into an area occupied by Hamas. The Israeli's said ''no you won't'' and made it clear they'd see it as provocation. They then intercepted them in international waters en route and shots were fired for reasons we can only speculate at at the moment.

I really do not want to get off topic so I will just ask you, why would Israel not allow aid into the people of Gaza? This issue is not about Hamas or Israel, it was trying to bring aid into gaza, an area that is completely surrounded with blockades and the point of the flotilla was to bring aid to the inhabitants within Gaza.

jimi_t2

EuskalHerria wrote: »

This issue is not about Hamas or Israel, it was trying to bring aid into gaza, an area that is completely surrounded with blockades and the point of the flotilla was to bring aid to the inhabitants within Gaza.

In fairness now, the area is occupied by Hamas, who are as dangerous as the IDF in their own way and are, for all intents and purposes, a terrorist group.

I don't want to get into the ins and outs of the occupation, but under international law and treaties this doesn't seem as outrageous as people make it out to be. They could have blown the ship out of the water.

EuskalHerria

jimi_t2 wrote: »

In fairness now, the area is occupied by Hamas, who are as dangerous as the IDF in their own way and are, for all intents and purposes, a terrorist group.

Hamas are as im sure you would agree, a reactionary group. That however does not mean that the people of Gaza should suffer. The aid was being delivered to the people of Gaza, which admittedly by extension means some members of Hamas, but that does not mean that the majority should starve and suffer because of them. This aid was for the people of Gaza, by no stretch of the imagination could this complete over reaction be justified by Israel because of Hamas, and there PR department would do well to ignore that as an avenue for escape for this disgraceful action tonight.

I don't want to get into the ins and outs of the occupation, but under international law and treaties this doesn't seem as outrageous as people make it out to be. They could have blown the ship out of the water.

The flotilla was in international waters, by international law they were doing nothing wrong.

smithy1981

jimi_t2 wrote: »

In fairness now, the area is occupied by Hamas, who are as dangerous as the IDF in their own way and are, for all intents and purposes, a terrorist group.

I don't want to get into the ins and outs of the occupation, but under international law and treaties this doesn't seem as outrageous as people make it out to be. They could have blown the ship out of the water.

No they couldn't, its an illegal blockade in international waters, they had no right to attack it or blow it out of the water. And its an aid ship for ****s sake.

EuskalHerria

Obviously I am posting this as a prelimanary report, but the death toll is rising significantly.

I'm off to bed now but hopefully this thread will remain focused on the main issue.

A ship carrying volunteers and aid has been attacked in international waters. The ship was not a threat yet it was attacked with live ammunition. This is an absolute disgrace on its own and reports of deaths, if confirmed only add to the level of disgust any rational human being can feel at this completely farcical action by the IDF tonight.

EuskalHerria

Reuters
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE64T21120100531

EuskalHerria

From the Free Gaza Movement:

"Reports coming from Istanbul is that Turks are storming the Israeli embassy there in outrage over what Israel has done"

arybvtcw0eolkf

smithy1981 wrote: »

It's another disgraceful act from them but who's really suprised?

Once its Israel, no one is surprised..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo

Jay D

Will wait and see what exactly IS true. Not a fan of Israel at all to be perfectly honest, but does anyone remember the child martyr? Staged shooting by French journalist.

EuskalHerria

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qypNDvEz_yI

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

EuskalHerria wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qypNDvEz_yI

Thta was put together fast. Anyway, I thought you were going to bed?

magma69

When is the rest of the world going to say enough is enough? Our apathy will only encourage more of this behaviour from Israel. Time for sanctions from the international community, Israel is a so called "western democracy",, if it wants to be treated as one, it must behave like one.

It is sickening. Poor people just trying to deliver aid and make the world a little easier for another human being, killed in cold blood. :mad::(

Nijmegen

Much as I think Israel was always going to incur PR wrath for going after this flotilla, some things come to mind:

Firstly, reports are that the soldiers were attacked with knives and other weapons to hand when they boarded the vessel. Orders or no, if I was an Israeli soldier landing and someone came at me with a meat cleaver, I would put him down. At this point it is not entirely clear, but I would not think they boarded and started shooting randomly.

Secondly, on the wider topic, Israel and Hamas are at war, Hamas took Gaza in a bloody coup against the elected governement, and have been shelling Israel for years. They offered to let this gear come in through Israel over land. These activists were wrong to try and play Israel on this one.

Hamas are dropping rockets on Israel daily. Those quick to condemn Israel might think differently if they were living in range of these rockets.