Aid Floatillas Attacked

EuskalHerria

For those who want to see the lethal action by an aid worker with a stick is about 4 minutes into this report. Where you can also see the IDF rounding up volunteers and no resistance can be seen other than one man with a stick

http://www9.gazetevatan.com/israil-t...08396/1/Gundem

PeakOutput

Drake66 wrote: »

It is a wonder how Irish soldiers ever managed to keep peace in volatile regions? Considering how necessary it is to kill multiple people after being "attacked" with sticks and fists of course.

of all the people your going to win a debate about peacekeeping with its probably not makikimoi

also soldiers under peacekeeping directives are different to soldiers defending their country

Killer Pigeon

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

As much as I'd love a better paying job - I'm NOT the Israeli Chief of Staff.

Sorry my question was rhetorical.

doncarlos

Nijmegen wrote: »

From the video evidence I can see, Israeli troops were being lain into before the firing started

Are you really suggesting that the israli soldiers when they arrived asked everyone nicely to get down on the ground??? They would have been aggressive and violent. I don't doubt that some of the aid workers fought back.

iguana

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

You were a soldier, and you don't get why someone attacking a soldier (armed or not) will be shot?.

Seriously, were you a soldier?.

You understand that soldiers don't have the right to act illegally right? You get that by virtue of being a soldier you aren't allowed be a law onto yourself? You still have to obey the laws of the region, in this case international laws. This is the real world, not a Van Damme movie.

EuskalHerria

Nijmegen wrote: »

Could he now? Krav maga, enabling Israeli soldiers to win wars... With their minds... As Eddie Izzard may say.

Yes completely exaggerate what I said to try and dismiss the point I was making. A transparent lack of reason and intelligence. The soldier could have easily disarmed one man with a stick without the use of lethal force.

It still does not explain how so many have been killed?

PeakOutput

El Horseboxo wrote: »

If a solider comes onto a ship illegally in international waters armed to the hilt and starts being aggressive towards me i will stand my ground.

or you could just let them inspect the cargo and be on your way

I know the kind of stance these aid bringers make and it is usually standing and trying to block entrance to something. I just find it hard to believe that they would go and grab knives and start trying to attack IDF solidiers.

its on video apparently,in the video i saw i didnt see any knives but i could certainly see a solider being beat on

Nijmegen

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Yes completely exaggerate what I said to try and dismiss the point I was making. A transparent lack of reason and intelligence. The soldier could have easily disarmed one man with a stick without the use of lethal force.

It still does not explain how so many have been killed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdXr1XL2-ZU

Two videos spliced together. I want to see all the footage - Israeli and protestor - in the order its shot, but watch from about halfway.

Israeli soldier at the end has his weapon down, hand on top of the barrel to keep it that way. He clearly went in guns blazing...

iguana

Nijmegen wrote: »

Could he now? Krav maga, enabling Israeli soldiers to win wars... With their minds... As Eddie Izzard may say.

I doubt Eddie Izzard would say that somehow as he isn't a big fool. Krav Maga is a hand-to-hand combat system, not a weird attempt at telekinesis or psychic control. And it's extremely effective. I've trained in it fairly extensively and as a 5ft tall woman have had no problem dropping a guy who was more than twice my weight when he attacked me. I've subdued people who've endangered people working for me on a number of occasions, including people with sticks.

PeakOutput

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Yes completely exaggerate what I said to try and dismiss the point I was making. A transparent lack of reason and intelligence. The soldier could have easily disarmed one man with a stick without the use of lethal force.

again they are under no compulsion to do so, they are soldiers

It still does not explain how so many have been killed?

thats true it dosnt but do you think one aid worker worked up the courage to stand up to an israeli soldier on his own or do you think the more logical explanation is that they as a group found the courage to stand up to the and as a group they did it. how did the 6 israeli soldiers get injured if there was no violence? why are two apparently critical?

the soldiers may indeed be 100% in the wrong but it just dosnt sound like it.

zuroph

at the protest in london
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkbnSYkgar8

Keano

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

The time of day would have no bearing on it, attacking a soldier will get you shot.



As much as I'd love a better paying job - I'm NOT the Israeli Chief of Staff.

Surely there is an element of asking the attacker to stop? Well, obviously if it is clear that all they have is a stick! Or is it a case of that is a "lethal" weapon?

EuskalHerria

PeakOutput wrote: »

or you could just let them inspect the cargo and be on your way

Lets call a spade a spade. There was no confusion over the cargo or the agenda of those on board the flotilla. The ships were checked by politicians and customs officials and shown to have nothing but aid on board them. Also Your post seems to suggest they would have been allowed on their way if they had let the IDF commandos on board to check the cargo. Your losing your grip on reality.

When is it justifiable to shoot innocent volunteers bringing badly needed aid? According to some its when an aid worker goes at an IDF commando with a stick.

PeakOutput

Nijmegen wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdXr1XL2-ZU

Two videos spliced together. I want to see all the footage - Israeli and protestor - in the order its shot, but watch from about halfway.

Israeli soldier at the end has his weapon down, hand on top of the barrel to keep it that way. He clearly went in guns blazing...

does anyone else see a knife in that soldiers hand?

Nijmegen

iguana wrote: »

I doubt Eddie Izzard would say that somehow as he isn't a big fool. Krav Maga is a hand-to-hand combat system, not a weird attempt at telekinesis or psychic control. And it's extremely effective. I've trained in it fairly extensively and as a 5ft tall woman have had no problem dropping a guy who was more than twice my weight when he attacked me. I've subdued people who've endangered people working for me on a number of occasions, including people with sticks.

Something then you should know is that in situations like that, hindsight in 20/20 and things are out of control.

Also, it's difficult to do krav maga and keep your weapon in hand, and ensure it is not discharged by you or anyone else.

arybvtcw0eolkf

iguana wrote: »

You understand that soldiers don't have the right to act illegally right? You get that by virtue of being a soldier you aren't allowed be a law onto yourself? You still have to obey the laws of the region, in this case international laws. This is the real world, not a Van Damme movie.

I won't multi-qoute, forgive me.

A civilian attacking a soldier is taking a very foolish course of action, its regretable that even one person lost their life - but there are consequences to attacking soldiers - even if you deem the actions of those soldiers as illegal.

I realise I'm coming across as cold and uncaring, its not my intention. I'm just saying that attacking a soldier is foolish and will likely get shot.

How so many ended up getting shot astounds me.

Kivaro

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

You were a soldier, and you don't get why someone attacking a soldier (armed or not) will be shot?.

Seriously, were you a soldier?.

See, I never had an issue with too much testosterone.
And I knew how to use the butt of an FN.
Your response goes to your character and how you present yourself in life.

I have seen many instances of soldiers not firing on unarmed protesters when being approached (or attacked, in your words).

Nijmegen

PeakOutput wrote: »

does anyone else see a knife in that soldiers hand?

That's the barrel of his weapon, which he is keeping down with his hand on top. Not a firing position.

Dyr

iguana wrote: »

I doubt Eddie Izzard would say that somehow as he isn't a big fool. Krav Maga is a hand-to-hand combat system, not a weird attempt at telekinesis or psychic control. And it's extremely effective. I've trained in it fairly extensively and as a 5ft tall woman have had no problem dropping a guy who was more than twice my weight when he attacked me. I've subdued people who've endangered people working for me on a number of occasions, including people with sticks.

The oul lethal art of hand to hand combat that is krav maga wasn't looking too effective when yer man was being lashed out of it with a stick. All those krav maga instructors will be gutted now. :pac:

PeakOutput

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Lets call a spade a spade. There was no confusion over the cargo or the agenda of those on board the flotilla. The ships were checked by politicians and customs officials and shown to have nothing but aid on board them. Also Your post seems to suggest they would have been allowed on their way if they had let the IDF commandos on board to check the cargo. Your losing your grip on reality.

if they had of followed the procedures that iv read about there would have been no soldiers anywhere near them they would have docked in israel been inspected and had their cargo moved to the distribution points from there

that is how all aid enters gaza because thats what the israelis insist on so that they can stop the supply of hamas

iguana

Nijmegen wrote: »

Something then you should know is that in situations like that, hindsight in 20/20 and things are out of control.

Interesting, yet you continue to condemn any aid workers who may have acted rashly in the face of a illegal invasion of armed raiders on their ship!

iguana

PeakOutput wrote: »

if they had of followed the procedures that iv read about there would have been no soldiers anywhere near them they would have docked in israel been inspected and had their cargo moved to the distribution points from there

that is how all aid enters gaza because thats what the israelis insist on so that they can stop the supply of hamas

Very little aid enters Gaza, I suggest you look up the difficulties aid workers have trying to get aid through Israel and the international condemnation of Israel for this.

Nijmegen

iguana wrote: »

Interesting, yet you continue to condemn any aid workers who may have acted rashly in the face of a illegal invasion of armed raiders on their ship!

To be beating the soldiers as they came down, they had to have weapons in hand, which many of them seemed to have. They were prepared and likely pumped up with the idea of repelling the Israeli troops.

If it wasn't such a serious topic and if it wasn't so likely that innocent people, who didn't want to participate in violence got caught up in it, I'd say that the people actively beating armed soldiers over the head with metal bars ought to be up for a Darwin award.

If you value your security, you don't attack an armed soldier. Especially when you know that the worst to happen will be arrest and a media scrum over that.

PeakOutput

iguana wrote: »

Interesting, yet you continue to condemn any aid workers who may have acted rashly in the face of a illegal invasion of armed raiders on their ship!

i am not condeming the aid workers im just also not willing to condem the soldiers

i think what the aid workers did was stupid and they did it to make a point and unfortunately israel has allowed them to make that point and much more

EuskalHerria

Nijmegen wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdXr1XL2-ZU

Two videos spliced together. I want to see all the footage - Israeli and protestor - in the order its shot, but watch from about halfway.

Israeli soldier at the end has his weapon down, hand on top of the barrel to keep it that way. He clearly went in guns blazing...

Notice the reported at the start and what he said, that shots had already been fired and that at least 2 people had been killed and many more injured.

If after a ship I was on was shot at after white flags had been raised and the IDF knowing there were no weapons aboard, then I would probably try and stop murdered getting aboard my ship aswell.

Still look at the video and see that people are armed with pretty much nothing. At the end you can see the people cowering on the ground, no threat to anyone.

PeakOutput

iguana wrote: »

Very little aid enters Gaza, I suggest you look up the difficulties aid workers have trying to get aid through Israel and the international condemnation of Israel for this.

i understand that

if they feel losing 19 lives was worth making their point then fair enough

i think it was reckless stupid and pointless

PeakOutput

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Notice the reported at the start and what he said, that shots had already been fired and that at least 2 people had been killed and many more injured.

If after a ship I was on was shot at after white flags had been raised and the IDF knowing there were no weapons aboard, then I would probably try and stop murdered getting aboard my ship aswell.

by the way i dont see any white flags i see an irish flag and an american flag

Still look at the video and see that people are armed with pretty much nothing. At the end you can see the people cowering on the ground, no threat to anyone.

you also see a soldier with an assault rifle cowering and not retaliating against someone with a bar beating on him

Keano

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

I won't multi-qoute, forgive me.

A civilian attacking a soldier is taking a very foolish course of action, its regretable that even one person lost their life - but there are consequences to attacking soldiers - even if you deem the actions of those soldiers as illegal.

I realise I'm coming across as cold and uncaring, its not my intention. I'm just saying that attacking a soldier is foolish and will likely get shot.

How so many ended up getting shot astounds me.

Totally understand what you are saying and yes you sound cold evil - only joking.

I really feel Israeli army went in way too heavy handed and just opened fire. No other possible suggestion for some many casualties.

Ghost Train

EuskalHerria wrote: »

For those who want to see the lethal action by an aid worker with a stick is about 4 minutes into this report. Where you can also see the IDF rounding up volunteers and no resistance can be seen other than one man with a stick

http://www9.gazetevatan.com/israil-t...08396/1/Gundem

heres your link
http://haber.gazetevatan.com/one-minutein-bedelini-odettiler/308396/1/Gundem

EuskalHerria

PeakOutput wrote: »

if they had of followed the procedures that iv read about there would have been no soldiers anywhere near them they would have docked in israel been inspected and had their cargo moved to the distribution points from there

that is how all aid enters gaza because thats what the israelis insist on so that they can stop the supply of hamas

Aid reaching Gaza, but U.N. says it's not enough

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/12/29/gaza.humanitarian/index.html