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Aid Floatillas Attacked

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    #632
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    If Israeli soldiers entered my house illegally then I'd be having a go at them with an iron bar too.

    How do you think that would turn out?


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    #633
    WIZE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭WIZE


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    If Israeli soldiers entered my house illegally then I'd be having a go at them with an iron bar too.

    Then BANG and jimmycrackcorm is dead:(


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    #634
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Most Haunted wrote: »
    Then BANG and jimmycrackcorm is dead:(

    Murdered by a home invader, who should then be jailed for the rest of there lives. A nice clear cut case!!!


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    #635
    Cool_CM
    Registered Users Posts: 4,982 ✭✭✭Cool_CM


    Most Haunted wrote: »
    Then BANG and jimmycrackcorm is dead:(

    [♪]Israelis cracked Jimmy and they don't care...[/♪]


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    #636
    happymondays
    Closed Accounts Posts: 122 ✭✭happymondays


    Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »
    I won't lie, I'm a very strong Israeli supporter & my emotions have swung back and forth this incident.

    Initially I couldn't fathom how 19 people could be killed in such a space of time.

    But the more video clips I see posted, from both sides, leads me to believe that if the boot was on the other foot we'd be looking at a lot more Israeli deaths tonight.

    I do think it was folly ordering this boarding and it seems as though the IDF didn't exhaust all other means. But nothing justifies the beating dished out to the boarding party of IDF personnel by these people.

    This clip is compelling viewing.



    im sorry but surely these videos mean noting, are these not from the IDF?
    for all we know that video could have been shot after the 9 people were killed
    and the aid workers enraged said **** this and decided to fight for thier lives.
    of course the IDF PR machine is not going release the entire video showing them shooting the people. all these clips will be the ones they want everyone to see.

    not saying who started attacking who, just saying anything released by the IDF is obviously going to be something that promotes only thier best interests and so has to be taken with the pinch of salt.

    when the people onboard get released and tell us what really happened
    is when we find out.


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    #637
    Indubitable
    Registered Users Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭Indubitable


    wes wrote: »
    Murdered by a home invader, who should then be jailed for the rest of there lives. A nice clear cut case!!!

    In the irish justice system it is about 2 years in jail.


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    #638
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    happymondays wrote: »
    when the people onboard get released and tell us what really happened
    is when we find out.

    Or perhaps we'll get another side with an agenda. More than likely the truth will be somewhere in between.


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    #639
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Sonnenblumen wrote: »
    As a neutral I am finding it hard to understand why were so many "Humanitarian aid workers" ready for a fight? Aid workers would not attack police/soldiers, so why here? Also no explanation has been given for the large number of knives, molotov cocktails which appear to have been readily available.
    I've always thought these peace keepers are very close to militant, they're aggressive and out to provoke a reaction. Any supposedly peaceful protest I seen was full of young self righteous fools that would believe anything told to them by a perceived "freedom fighter".


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    #640
    Elessar
    Registered Users Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭Elessar


    I read this as "Aldi flotillas attacked"


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    #641
    happymondays
    Closed Accounts Posts: 122 ✭✭happymondays


    prinz wrote: »
    Or perhaps we'll get another side with an agenda. More than likely the truth will be somewhere in between.


    very possibly true, but to be honest i would imagine an irish aid worker
    accout would be much closer to the truth.

    what we do know is history has shown us that the IDF PR machine is a just a pure web of lies and coverups. so much so at this point they make the IRA look trustworthy!


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    #642
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    bambooze wrote: »
    I don't but I'll take that as a compliment. ;)

    The video speaks volumes.. calling "BS" in the face of such damning video evidence is denying reality. The facts are plain, no need for spin. These were not peaceful activists, they were a violent lynch mob.

    For those that missed it earlier in the thread, it really needs to be seen..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

    What needs to be seen? These guys laying into the boarders with sticks or poles? A solider falling to his certain doom all of...ooh.. 10 feet below? The israelis look like they dropped in there expecting to meet the usual middle class do gooders, throw a few slaps into them and take over the ship. Instead it looks like they ran into a few hundred p**sed off turks, no sympathy for them. They chose to hijack the boat they are responsible for the consequences.


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    #643
    ReacherCreature
    Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭ReacherCreature


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    If Israeli soldiers entered my house illegally then I'd be having a go at them with an iron bar too.

    Would you actually? If I was in your case, I'd bloody welcome armed troops into my house, 'take what you like...' out of sheer fear.
    Bambi wrote: »
    What needs to be seen? These guys laying into the boarders with sticks or poles? A solider falling to his certain doom all of...ooh.. 10 feet below? The israelis look like they dropped in there expecting to meet the usual middle class do gooders, throw a few slaps into them and take over the ship. Instead it looks like they ran into a few hundred p**sed off turks, no sympathy for them. They chose to hijack the boat they are responsible for the consequences.

    'Ooh'? What if he was killed? Seriously wounded? Another trooper was thrown 30 feet to another level. That's serious.


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    #644
    happymondays
    Closed Accounts Posts: 122 ✭✭happymondays


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I've always thought these peace keepers are very close to militant, they're aggressive and out to provoke a reaction. Any supposedly peaceful protest I seen was full of young self righteous fools that would believe anything told to them by a perceived "freedom fighter".


    you want to bear in mind these peace keepers include a Nobel Peace prize winner,a former UN Assistant Secretary-General and was supposed to carry 3 members of the Oireachtas before they were refused. so these are hardly your average militant tree huggers!


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    #645
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    happymondays wrote: »
    you want to bear in mind these peace keepers include a Nobel Peace prize winner,a former UN Assistant Secretary-General and was supposed to carry 3 members of the Oireachtas before they were refused. so these are hardly your average militant tree huggers!

    were any of those guys on this particular boat?

    and why were the 3 irish guys refused passage on this particular boat?


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    #646
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    ReacherCreature wrote: »
    Would you actually? If I was in your case, I'd bloody welcome armed troops into my house, 'take what you like...' out of sheer fear.



    'Ooh'? What if he was killed? Seriously wounded? Another trooper was thrown 30 feet to another level. That's serious.

    Launching assaults on foreign ships in international waters is serious business.

    has a final death toll been released? The israelis must know how many are dead by now, presumably it's a media management ploy not to release the figure


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    #647
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,427 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I notice the clips so far are extensively edited. Plenty of footage of the turkish lads laying into the Israelis with poles and chairs but no shots of the Israelis pumping them full of lead with their assault rifles.


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    #648
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    and why were the 3 irish guys refused passage on this particular boat?
    That's a question I'd like to find out more about.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #649
    ascanbe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    Sonnenblumen wrote: »
    As a neutral I am finding it hard to understand why were so many "Humanitarian aid workers" ready for a fight? Aid workers would not attack police/soldiers, so why here? Also no explanation has been given for the large number of knives, molotov cocktails which appear to have been readily available.

    Right/wrong it was damn stupid for those guys to attack IDF?

    Israel has been confronting fire with fire for years, ever since the state was established.

    A very serious incident and surprised it has gone so far (with some unhelpful comments) in AH.

    They were on a boat which, as well as transporting them, would have doubled as their living quarters; why wouldn't they have knives?
    If someone tried to break into my house, i'd have a number of knives 'readily available' to me in the kitchen.
    They were also likely to have some glass containers on this boat, for any number of reasons, and access to petrol as they were, as i stated, on a boat.


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    #650
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    happymondays wrote: »
    you want to bear in mind these peace keepers include a Nobel Peace prize winner,a former UN Assistant Secretary-General and was supposed to carry 3 members of the Oireachtas before they were refused. so these are hardly your average militant tree huggers!
    Those aren't, I'm not saying their incapable of being antagonising knobs but considering people with titles seem to think that makes them infallible it wouldn't surprise me if they where in the thick of it.

    I'd assume the vast majority of the crew where not Nobel peace prize winners or former UN assistants.


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    #651
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I notice the clips so far are extensively edited. Plenty of footage of the turkish lads laying into the Israelis with poles and chairs but no shots of the Israelis pumping them full of lead with their assault rifles.

    there have been plenty of clips from the activists aswell also extensively edited i imagine if they had video of such a massacre we would have seen it by now


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    #652
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,427 ✭ [Deleted User]


    prinz wrote: »
    Why didn't the convoy heed the Israeli warnings and call to divert to a safe harbour? They wanted to send a message too.

    No I think it was aid they were trying to send.


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    #653
    happymondays
    Closed Accounts Posts: 122 ✭✭happymondays


    Wibbs wrote: »
    That's a question I'd like to find out more about.


    they were refused to board in cyprus,
    they believe because Israel brought pressure on Cyprus to stop them/

    who knows maybe israel knew something was going to happen beforehand
    and didnt want officals involved.


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    #654
    ReacherCreature
    Registered Users Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭ReacherCreature


    Bambi wrote: »
    Launching assaults on foreign ships in international waters is serious business.

    Meh I'm concerned about the incident on board the ship tbf.


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    #655
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    there have been plenty of clips from the activists aswell also extensively edited i imagine if they had video of such a massacre we would have seen it by now

    Hard to say really. Wouldn't the Israeli's have total control over what footage taken was released to this point? They took full control of the ship and the crew. I haven't seen a single clip of a civilian being shot and as we know several were. Whatever about a "massacre" where is any of the footage of a civilian being shot? Shouldn't we have seen at least one of the shootings by now?


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    #656
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I notice the clips so far are extensively edited. Plenty of footage of the turkish lads laying into the Israelis with poles and chairs but no shots of the Israelis pumping them full of lead with their assault rifles.
    That and so far no one from the boat has been interviewed. The media blackout. Which doesnt trouble me as such TBH as I would expect that in any military operation. Cutting communications being one of the first orders of the day for military purposes. I'm amazed the footage got out really. Though the rest was a farce from start to finish. It will be interesting to hear the various sides. When faced with things like this, I dont jump to conspiracy, I think more on human nature, stupidity and just SNAFU. Situation normal, all fcuked up.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #657
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    there have been plenty of clips from the activists aswell also extensively edited i imagine if they had video of such a massacre we would have seen it by now

    the only clips from any other source are the ones that got out before the israelis took over the ship, if the activists captured footage of a massacre you can be sure it's all in the IDF's hands now.


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    #658
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    happymondays wrote: »
    they were refused to board in cyprus,
    they believe because Israel brought pressure on Cyprus to stop them/

    who knows maybe israel knew something was going to happen beforehand
    and didnt want officals involved.
    Well the Israelis did suggest that stuff might go down sooner or later, but like I say I'm usually dubious of conspiracy stuff.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #659
    PirateShampoo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,406 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Well the Israelis did suggest that stuff might go down sooner or later, but like I say I'm usually dubious of conspiracy stuff.


    Who was refused board?


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    #660
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No I think it was aid they were trying to send.

    If all they were concerned with was landing the aid they would have taken the Israeli offer to land it and to oversee it's transfer to Gaza. They refused this.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    When faced with things like this, I dont jump to conspiracy, I think more on human nature, stupidity and just SNAFU. Situation normal, all fcuked up.

    +1. One of those situations where things seem to have gone very wrong, very quickly out of the hands of anyone in control.


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    #661
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,427 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wibbs wrote: »
    That and so far no one from the boat has been interviewed. The media blackout. Which doesnt trouble me as such TBH as I would expect that in any military operation. Cutting communications being one of the first orders of the day for military purposes. I'm amazed the footage got out really. Though the rest was a farce from start to finish. It will be interesting to hear the various sides. When faced with things like this, I dont jump to conspiracy, I think more on human nature, stupidity and just SNAFU. Situation normal, all fcuked up.

    That footage didn't get out, it was put out, and clearly edited to remove the part where the IDF open fire. You can see where the video cuts and the mob go from flinging chairs and swinging poles to standing meekly huddled in groups backing away from the IDF men. I wonder what happened in between? Hmmm....


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