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Aid Floatillas Attacked

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    #692
    lmaopml
    Registered Users Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭lmaopml


    If this highlightes nothing else, it should highlight the absolute necessity for the international community to get involved in trying to find a peaceful way forward. As it stands the embargo is illegal -

    ....it's illegal, and at the end of the day, that's what has been highlighted. Sadly by the loss of more life.


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    #693
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Israel voted for Ireland in the Eurovision.

    Fed up of the 'poor Palestinians', maybe if they hadn't elected terrorists in Gaza there would be no blockade, it is only Gaza that has the blockade as the West Bank is not ruled by Hamas.

    No sympathy, the people on the ship looked for trouble when they attacked the soldiers, anyone who looks for trouble will get enough of it.


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    #694
    hideous ape
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭hideous ape


    Drake66 wrote: »
    The Israeli ambassador is not scum. He is a highly educated and very perceptive man. If you would care to read some of the essays he has written on the Mideast conflict and on Northern Ireland perhaps your opinion may change. The Israeli mission also sent a representative to the Famine memorial; which is more than our nearest neighbour did.

    You clearly didn't see Mrs Knuckle Dragger that Israel sent on to talk in his place to Kenny!

    She made the Palestinian guy come across as Stephen Hawking.

    Israel cannot PR their way out of this one I'm afraid!


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    #695
    Drake66
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Drake66


    DylanJM wrote: »
    Drake do you not think it's possible to kill a soldier with an iron bar no? If you were a soldier be bludgened by a group of people, who are clearly trying to kill you, would you just lay down and take it?

    Also how are the soldiers thugs if you don't mind me asking? They follow the orders they are given.

    Yes and hitting someone with an iron bar is a death sentence now.

    And I am sure the soldiers responsible for the Bloody Sunday massacre were following someones orders; but they were still thugs with guns who killed unarmed civilians. It does not take much of a man to shoot an unarmed human.


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    #696
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Drake66 wrote: »
    Yes and hitting someone with an iron bar is a death sentence now.

    And I am sure the soldiers responsible for the Bloody Sunday massacre were following someones orders; but they were still thugs with guns who killed unarmed civilians. It does not take much of a man to shoot an unarmed human.

    Two soldiers fighting for their lives, were they suppose to be lynched to death?
    If the people on the ship had not attacked the soldiers, no one would have been injured or killed.


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    #697
    DylanJM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭DylanJM


    What? Have you seen any of the videos of the incident? The soldiers were outnumbered. You didn't answer my questio either....what would YOU do if you were one of the soldiers and there was 5 or 6 people with bits of pipe,knives,etc. trying to kill you while you were on the ground? Would you just lie there and do nothing?


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    #698
    Drake66
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Drake66


    Min wrote: »
    Two soldiers fighting for their lives, were they suppose to be lynched to death?
    If the people on the ship had not attacked the soldiers, no one would have been injured or killed.

    And if the soldiers had no illegally attacked an unarmed vessel in international waters nobody would of been killed.

    Do you seriously believe that all of these people woke up that morning and rationally decided that they wanted to die? Or is it more likely that the people with guns made that decision for them.


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    #699
    cherryghost
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 17,133 Mod ✭✭✭✭cherryghost


    DylanJM wrote: »
    What? Have you seen any of the videos of the incident? The soldiers were outnumbered. You didn't answer my questio either....what would YOU do if you were one of the soldiers and there was 5 or 6 people with bits of pipe,knives,etc. trying to kill you while you were on the ground? Would you just lie there and do nothing?

    Errr but why were they there in the first place when they shouldn't have been? jeeeez


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    #700
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    Israel says it didn't think there would be any trouble when they boarded the ship. Why did they send armed soldiers then? That's Israel for ya though, always have to go over the top and use way more force than is needed. That's my problem with asll of this, they didn't do all they could to avoid loss of life.

    And when watching all of the Israelian spokespeople you can see it on their faces and hear it in their voices that they know they made a mistake and are desperatly trying to make excuses.

    You don't bring a gun to a snowball fight.


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    #701
    Drake66
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Drake66


    DylanJM wrote: »
    What? Have you seen any of the videos of the incident? The soldiers were outnumbered. You didn't answer my questio either....what would YOU do if you were one of the soldiers and there was 5 or 6 people with bits of pipe,knives,etc. trying to kill you while you were on the ground? Would you just lie there and do nothing?

    You must be a serious savant to absolutely know that a death penalty was warranted based on a few seconds of very grainy footage distributed by one side. I salute you sir; you would make a fine legal mind.


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    #702
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Drake66 wrote: »
    And if the soldiers had no illegally attacked an unarmed vessel in international waters nobody would of been killed.

    Do you seriously believe that all of these people woke up that morning and rationally decided that they wanted to die? Or is it more likely that the people with guns made that decision for them.

    Unarmed?
    It looked like they were prepared when the soldiers came on board as they had metal bars at hand to try and beat the soldiers to death.

    I think they are highly naive, what idiot attacks and tries to kill armed soldiers?


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    #703
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    DylanJM wrote: »
    What? Have you seen any of the videos of the incident? The soldiers were outnumbered. You didn't answer my questio either....what would YOU do if you were one of the soldiers and there was 5 or 6 people with bits of pipe,knives,etc. trying to kill you while you were on the ground? Would you just lie there and do nothing?

    If I was an Israelian soldier and my government sent me out in the night to a ship telling me there would be no resistance and next thing I know there are people battering me with pipes I would have shot them.
    Then I would have asked my government why they sent me there to begin with! And that's what everyone is asking Israel now.


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    #704
    Drake66
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Drake66


    deisedevil wrote: »
    If I was an Israelian soldier and my government sent me out in the night to a ship telling me there would be no resistance and next thing I know there are people battering me with pipes I would have shot them.
    Then I would have asked my government why they sent me there to begin with! And that's what everyone is asking Israel now.

    Aren't you a tough man.


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    #705
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Min wrote: »
    Unarmed?
    It looked like they were prepared when the soldiers came on board as they had metal bars at hand to try and beat the soldiers to death.

    I think they are highly naive, what idiot attacks and tries to kill armed soldiers?

    The soldiers had no business on the boat in the first place.


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    #706
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,427 ✭ [Deleted User]


    deisedevil wrote: »
    If I was an Israelian soldier and my government sent me out in the night to a ship telling me there would be no resistance and next thing I know there are people battering me with pipes I would have shot them.
    Then I would have asked my government why they sent me there to begin with! And that's what everyone is asking Israel now.

    Ya in fairness the IDF guys were landed in a really bad situation, those men would have beaten them to death if they continued thumping them like that. If Israel had waited until the ship was in Israeli territory they would actually have some sort of case. But they didn't so they don't.


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    #707
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    Min wrote: »
    Unarmed?
    It looked like they were prepared when the soldiers came on board as they had metal bars at hand to try and beat the soldiers to death.

    I think they are highly naive, what idiot attacks and tries to kill armed soldiers?

    Israel had said they would attack any ships that tried to go against the blockade before they even left. Those getting on the ships thought that Israel wouldn't carry out that threat. Next thing you know theres naval boats and ships all around you, helicopters above you and armed soldiers start to land on the ship. Would you wait and see if they are about to carry out their threat or would you act. Fear causes people to run or fight and Israel put the fear of god in these humanitarians and then expected that they would run, they forgot they might fight though.


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    #708
    Drake66
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Drake66


    Min wrote: »
    Unarmed?
    It looked like they were prepared when the soldiers came on board as they had metal bars at hand to try and beat the soldiers to death.

    I think they are highly naive, what idiot attacks and tries to kill armed soldiers?

    I do love the fact that we live in a world where some equate civilians and metal bars with firearms and soldiers.


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    #709
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    Drake66 wrote: »
    Aren't you a tough man.

    Maybe you might want to read my post again. You clearly didn't understand it. :mad:


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    #710
    DylanJM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭DylanJM


    The soldiers had no business on the boat in the first place.

    So that makes it ok for the people on the boat to try and kill them?


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    #711
    Pauleta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,778 ✭✭✭Pauleta


    deisedevil wrote: »
    Israel had said they would attack any ships that tried to go against the blockade before they even left. Those getting on the ships thought that Israel wouldn't carry out that threat. Next thing you know theres naval boats and ships all around you, helicopters above you and armed soldiers start to land on the ship. Would you wait and see if they are about to carry out their threat or would you act. Fear causes people to run or fight and Israel put the fear of god in these humanitarians and then expected that they would run, they forgot they might fight though.

    I would of observed the protocol of laying on the ground with my hands above my head. If people did that instead of attacking them they would still be alive and sitting on a near undisputed moral high ground.


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    #712
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    DylanJM wrote: »
    So that makes it ok for the people on the boat to try and kill them?

    If someone threatens you and then comes into your house with a gun would you pick up a knife or a poker or something and hit them? I would, I wouldn't be waiting to see if he's going to carry out his threat.


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    #713
    DylanJM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭DylanJM


    I do love the fact that we live in a world where some equate civilians and metal bars with firearms and soldiers.

    You just aren't getting this are you? When 5 or 6 people are attacking a soldier lying on the ground and he has a gun he is not going to lay there and die is he? Of course not, he is going to defend himself.


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    #714
    hideous ape
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭hideous ape


    DylanJM wrote: »
    So that makes it ok for the people on the boat to try and kill them?

    I love how your starting point is only after an armed group of soldiers have absailed onto the ship. As if ethical time only kicks in just as an IDF soldier is being attack. The IDF were the group in total control of that situation.

    Here's a scenario for you:

    1) A woman is attacked by two men in her home at dawn.
    2) They both rape her.
    3) One of them leaves the room.
    4) She manages to pick up a sharp object and stabs the guy in the room.
    5) The other guy walks back into the room.
    6) She stabs him too but he smashes her head off a table killing her instantly.

    At what stage does your version of that story start or when does your ethical compass kick in?...I'm guessing Part 5!


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    #715
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    DylanJM wrote: »
    You just aren't getting this are you? When 5 or 6 people are attacking a soldier lying on the ground and he has a gun he is not going to lay there and die is he? Of course not, he is going to defend himself.

    You can be sure of it, especially seeing as that's what he's trained to do. Should have been doing what he was trained to do somewhere else though. Why was there a need to put soldiers on to that ship in the middle of the night like that? There were plenty of other ways to deal with the situation and they failed to deal with it in the best way possible.


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    #716
    DylanJM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭DylanJM


    If someone threatens you and then comes into your house with a gun would you pick up a knife or a poker or something and hit them? I would, I wouldn't be waiting to see if he's going to carry out his threat.

    But it's not as if the soldiers were going to open fire as soon as they boarded. If they hadn't been attacked as soon as they boarded I can assure you we would be looking at a much less tragic outcome.


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    #717
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    wes wrote: »
    The soldiers had no business on the boat in the first place.

    Actually they had in one way, the ship was going directly to Gaza and Gaza is ruled by terrorists - terrorists that led to Israel erecting a wall to keep Hamas suicide bombers out - they didn't care when they blowing themselves up - Israel again got criticised over the security wall, apparently it was ok for Israeli's to blown to bits in restaurants, in the streets, at weddings.
    When you have neighbours like that then you need to defend yourself, Israel may have had no business being in international waters but they need to defend themselves.

    Hamas probably too busy wasting money buying more rockets to launch at Israel than help their own people, then all we hear is how terrible Israel is, they don't have similar problems with the Palestinians of the West Bank.


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    #718
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    DylanJM wrote: »
    But it's not as if the soldiers were going to open fire as soon as they boarded. If they hadn't been attacked as soon as they boarded I can assure you we would be looking at a much less tragic outcome.

    If they hadn't have boarded I can assure you we would be looking at a much less tragic outcome........Now you go.


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    #719
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Drake66 wrote: »
    I do love the fact that we live in a world where some equate civilians and metal bars with firearms and soldiers.

    Is it worse to be killed by gunfire than to be physically beaten to death?

    So civilians can kill soldiers with metal bars and knives but soldiers cannot use their weapons to defend themselves?

    I think you go beyond being a civilian when you attack a soldier.


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    #720
    Drake66
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Drake66


    DylanJM wrote: »
    You just aren't getting this are you? When 5 or 6 people are attacking a soldier lying on the ground and he has a gun he is not going to lay there and die is he? Of course not, he is going to defend himself.

    Yes he was going to die because the few seconds of footage say he was going to die. You are making great suppositions here. There is nothing supposed about the scores of people who did die however.


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    #721
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,427 ✭ [Deleted User]


    DylanJM wrote: »
    But it's not as if the soldiers were going to open fire as soon as they boarded. If they hadn't been attacked as soon as they boarded I can assure you we would be looking at a much less tragic outcome.

    If they hadn't boarded we'd be looking at a much less tragic outcome also.


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