Aid Floatillas Attacked

Memnoch

I love the continued obfuscation and misrepresentation by those trying to minimise Israel's actions.

Here is an interesting question. Why are journalists and the international media being prevented from speaking to any of the protesters on board the ships? These include international journalists who witnessed the events first hand, doctors etc.

So Israel puts out it's own HEAVILY edited footage, bombards the world with their own spin and PR campaign, yet refuse access to journalists and is holding them indefinitely for "processing" and has no doubt confisicated all evidence of its crimes.

And people here want us to give ANY credence to their version of the story?

I'm sorry, but such attempts at deliberate deception are not only transparent. They are pathetic.

Every action of Israel before and after this even shows clearly their intentions and criminality.

The Israelis fired first, THAT is why they won't let journalists access protesters to tell their side of the story.

bambooze

snow ghost wrote: »

Communications from the ships were blocked, Israel's versions of events are unlikely to be credible - they have a track record of lies and deceit.

Apart from the endless stream of turkish vids that appeared on youtube very shortly after?

hideous ape wrote: »

Israel miscalculated that these people would bow down and accept been taken HOSTAGE! In international waters they were taken hostage...if I was there I would have fought back too.

How would I know if I was ever going to see daylight again or even make it to land?

And darwinism would work its magic..

How would you know? Because its real life, not a movie or some pali propaganda script. Don't be such a drama queen.

Anyone on board was fully aware (or damn well should have been) that running a military blockade after repeated warnings had some very likely outcomes - being taken "hostage" as you say, being the most likely or in other words arrested & deported, not kidnapped and held secretly in a mountain cave for the rest of your life. :rolleyes:

snow ghost wrote: »

The ship was most certainly attacked and illegally boarded by a very heavily armed force that had no legitimate right to do so.

Says you, the arbiter of international and maritime law..

TheZohan wrote: »

The claims were reported in the news earlier.


Do you have any evidence that the Israeli soldiers didn't?

Claims reported in the news huh? Well that's all the proof we need. Israel did it.

Memnoch

bambooze wrote: »

Apart from the endless stream of turkish vids that appeared on youtube very shortly after?

A miniscule amount of live footage via satellite amidst the panic. Most of the communication was blocked and most of the evidence will doubtless be destroyed.

Even now the journalists on board have not been able to report what really happened so that the Israeli version can go on unchallenged.

arybvtcw0eolkf

With its oppression of the Kurdish people and occupation of Kurdish lands, not to mention the occupation of Northern Cyprus that Turkey has a neck like a jockies bollox with their whinging and sh*t stiring?.

Memnoch

bambooze wrote: »

Claims reported in the news huh? Well that's all the proof we need. Israel did it.

Why have we not heard anything from the journalists and other humanitarians on board the attacked ship? Why are the israelis not allowing the world's media access to these reporters?

It seems that while they are happy to release statement after statement and their own HEAVILY edited footage in a PR campaign, they are doing their best to stifle the other side of the story.

As a result, I am forced to take the Israeli version of events incredibly sceptically and their actions lend credence to the claim that it was the IDF who opened fire first, provoking the reaction we see on the video released by Israel.

bambooze

there were kids on that boat when it was in the last port.

Ye like all responsible parents bring their kids to military confrontations.. but hey, hamas types hiding behind kids is nothing new right?

The rest of your ignorant rant doesn't deserve a response.

Memnoch

bambooze wrote: »

Ye like all responsible parents bring their kids to military confrontations.. but hey, hamas types hiding behind kids is nothing new right?

The rest of your ignorant rant doesn't deserve a response.

You continue to ignore valid points that question the credibility of Israel's actions.

It would seem therefore, that it is your posts and rants that are ignorant and not deserving of response.

bambooze

Memnoch wrote: »

Why have we not heard anything from the journalists and other humanitarians on board the attacked ship? Why are the israelis not allowing the world's media access to these reporters?

It seems that while they are happy to release statement after statement and their own HEAVILY edited footage in a PR campaign, they are doing their best to stifle the other side of the story.

As a result, I am forced to take the Israeli version of events incredibly sceptically and their actions lend credence to the claim that it was the IDF who opened fire first, provoking the reaction we see on the video released by Israel.

Patience.. dealing with hundreds of uncooperative and decidedly unpeaceful peace activists takes time. Those involved in the lynching will no doubt be weeded out soon enough and the rest will be deported.. then you'll have all the typical stories of israeli brutality you could ever wish for.

Also as was posted by someone else previously..

In one of the clips, the reporter says that their mobile communications were blocked however they were able to continue their satalite video feed as it wasn't affected. This would suggest that as they were beaming the images elsewhere, there shouldn't be edited versions of events on the ship.

Memnoch wrote: »

You continue to ignore valid points that question the credibility of Israel's actions.

It would seem therefore, that it is your posts and rants that are ignorant and not deserving of response.

So you think his post about wishing they'd all broken their necks was somehow worthy?

I ignore no valid points questioning anything - but there is rather a lot to keep up with here! I think I have responded to most points that deserved it.

PogMoThoin

This is exactly what You expect to happen when You send a squad of heavy handed Commandos onto an aid ship

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

Memnoch

bambooze wrote: »

So you think his post about wishing they'd all broken their necks was somehow worthy?

I ignore no valid points questioning anything - but there is rather a lot to keep up with here! I think I have responded to most points that deserved it.

Your responses blindly adulating the Israeli version of events seems no more balanced.

Banned Account

My main concern is the fact that ships in international waters can be towed to a port and have all the people on board interned in detention camps. Regardless of who was right or wrong (and lets face it, we'll never know the full truth) this seems a very undesireable state of affairs.

I would imagine that the situation on the boat was tense (I know some palestinian activists and they are, by and large, a confrontational lot - I can imagine that those who go on these missions are more passionate and confrontational than those who remain at home an hand out fliers)

Please note that I am not interested in taking sides on the palestine/Israel situation here, I am just raising the question of whether or not the boarding of a ship and subsequent internment without trial of the inhabitants of said boat is an action that should be accepted - I think not, personally.

Memnoch

bambooze wrote: »

Patience.. dealing with hundreds of uncooperative and decidedly unpeaceful peace activists takes time.
Those involved in the lynching will no doubt be weeded out soon enough and the rest will be deported.. then you'll have all the typical stories of israeli brutality you could ever wish for.

Brilliant PR excuse for the kidnapping and continued illegal detention of journalists and humanitarians.

Even the videos released by Israel show that the people had surrendered. How hard is it to allow a journalist or two from the BBC or CNN access to the protesters?

Honestly, if this is your stance, you have even less credibility than the Israelis.

blackiebest

PogMoThoin wrote: »

This is exactly what You expect to happen when You send a squad of heavy handed Commandos onto an aid ship

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

Wow:eek:

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Not sure if you guys have seen the same videos I have seen, which are posted in this very thread. One man was dead and others were injured before any commando set foot on any ship. Why are people ignoring this fact?

Memnoch

PogMoThoin wrote: »

This is exactly what You expect to happen when You send a squad of heavy handed Commandos onto an aid ship

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

Please note, this is HEAVILY EDITED footage released by the Israeli defence force to spin events in their favour.

It DOES NOT show the start of the attack, even the Israeli's haven't tried to claim that it does.

Meanwhile, Israel has not allowed access to international journalists on board the attacked ship or flotilla. And apart from the little live video that made it out via satellite, all evidence pointing out Israel's criminality has no doubt been confisicated and destroyed.

bambooze

Memnoch wrote: »

Your responses blindly adulating the Israeli version of events seems no more balanced.

No, let me post something as balanced as his statement..

I wish the ships had all been sunk, drowning everyone on board.

Last I checked I wasn't wishing for anyone to be killed.

Memnoch

Edwin Calm Wife wrote: »

Not sure if you guys have seen the same videos I have seen, which are posted in this very thread. One man was dead and others were injured before any commando set foot on any ship. Why are people ignoring this fact?

Because the Israeli's have run a very succesful PR campaign and their rabid supporters on here are doing a good job of ignoring inconvenient facts.

Can you please re-link the video? I will add it to my sig.

PeakOutput

actually here is an interesting question that iv seen posed on a different forum

why dont people use the egyptian border to get their aid in if israel is so hell bent on stopping it? surely the egyptians (not being israel) have border policies that are reasonable in the activists eyes and if they dont why dont they?

why try and force your way threw israels blockade when there is a perfectly reasonable country also with a border to gaza?

Memnoch

bambooze wrote: »

No, let me post something as balanced as his statement..

I wish the ships had all been sunk, drowning everyone on board.

Last I checked I wasn't wishing for anyone to be killed.

No, you're just pretending that cold blooded murder of innocent civillains is a-ok.

Wait no.. you're not doing that.

You're trying to paint innocent civilians as something else entirely so that they are dehumanised and their cold blooded murder can be justified and those responsible held to account.

I know which stance I consider more deplorable and which seems borne out of frustration at unbearable injustice.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Memnoch wrote: »

Because the Israeli's have run a very succesful PR campaign and their rabid supporters on here are doing a good job of ignoring inconvenient facts.

Can you please re-link the video? I will add it to my sig.

It's in this thread somewhere, I cannot see any videos now as I am at work.

The reporter actually says "We have raised the white flag and the israeli army are still shooting"

I am not 100% what ship that is on, but shots were fired at the Floatillas before any soldier was hit with iron bars and chairs.

Memnoch

PeakOutput wrote: »

actually here is an interesting question that iv seen posed on a different forum

why dont people use the egyptian border to get their aid in if israel is so hell bent on stopping it? surely the egyptians (not being israel) have border policies that are reasonable in the activists eyes and if they dont why dont they?

why try and force your way threw israels blockade when there is a perfectly reasonable country also with a border to gaza?

Has been answered already. The egyptians have been in the Israeli's pay for a while.

PeakOutput

Not sure if you guys have seen the same videos I have seen, which are posted in this very thread. One man was dead and others were injured before any commando set foot on any ship. Why are people ignoring this fact?

im sorry thats not fact at all

videos from both sides are heavily edited and there is no clear timeline

the videos that show the boats of soldiers coming towards the ship could very easily be after the helicopters lowered in the initial non lethaly armed force

this would make perfect sense imo

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

PeakOutput wrote: »

actually here is an interesting question that iv seen posed on a different forum

why dont people use the egyptian border to get their aid in if israel is so hell bent on stopping it? surely the egyptians (not being israel) have border policies that are reasonable in the activists eyes and if they dont why dont they?

why try and force your way threw israels blockade when there is a perfectly reasonable country also with a border to gaza?

To create awareness. These are the things that have to be done in order for other nations to act. I doubt anybody went out with the aim of getting killed purposely.

PeakOutput

Edwin Calm Wife wrote: »

I am not 100% what ship that is on, but shots were fired at the Floatillas before any soldier was hit with iron bars and chairs.

there was only violence on one ship

the other ships do not appear to have attacked the boarders and there was no injuries or deaths on those ships as a result

bambooze

Memnoch wrote: »

Brilliant PR excuse for the kidnapping and continued illegal detention of journalists and humanitarians.

Even the videos released by Israel show that the people had surrendered. How hard is it to allow a journalist or two from the BBC or CNN access to the protesters?

Honestly, if this is your stance, you have even less credibility than the Israelis.

What you think hundreds of people can just be rolled off a boat and onto a plane conveniently waiting there at the port? You are not being reasonable at all.. a violent confrontation took place, the people involved are being dealt with by the authorities. The latest news report in fact says..

Flotilla detainees can meet attorneys, consuls

Thats the ones that haven't been released yet of course.

Forty-five people detained after participating in the aid flotilla to Gaza have been deported from Israel by plane. Three additional detainees are still awaiting flights at the Ben Gurion International Airport.

Allowing time for their flights to actually arrive wherever they are going and perhaps get some sleep, being human and all.. I'd expect them to start blogging about their adventure fairly soon now.

PeakOutput

Memnoch wrote: »

Has been answered already. The egyptians have been in the Israeli's pay for a while.

ah right, so anyone who dosnt agree with these people is in the pay of the israelis? thats convenient

maybe they feel there is a threat from hamas aswel no? of course that couldnt possibly be the explanation

Memnoch

PeakOutput wrote: »

there was only violence on one ship

the other ships do not appear to have attacked the boarders and there was no injuries or deaths on those ships as a result

Lies and deception.

The Israelis did not attack the other ships prior to boarding them. They attacked a ship and killed people on board in order to "cut of the head" of the flotilla. They did not need to attack anyone afterwards as the murders on the first ship were enough to break the back of any possible resistance.

bambooze

Edwin Calm Wife wrote: »

Not sure if you guys have seen the same videos I have seen, which are posted in this very thread. One man was dead and others were injured before any commando set foot on any ship. Why are people ignoring this fact?

Who says it happened before israelis boarded? Logically that is not the way it would happen.. simply doesn't pass the smell test.

Memnoch

PeakOutput wrote: »

ah right, so anyone who dosnt agree with these people is in the pay of the israelis? thats convenient

maybe they feel there is a threat from hamas aswel no? of course that couldnt possibly be the explanation

Hamas had no involvement in this incident. They are no doubt a deplorable group but you cannot use them as a bogey man to justify the murder of innocent civilians bringing aid to an impoverished and suffering population.

bambooze

Memnoch wrote: »

Please note, this is HEAVILY EDITED footage released by the Israeli defence force to spin events in their favour.

Gangs of thugs with clubs laying into guys on the floor.. whats to spin?

Memnoch wrote: »

Because the Israeli's have run a very succesful PR campaign

Well that would be a first, to be honest. Really I would disagree with that in this instance also. Israel is always slow to react on the PR front and by the time they do the PR damage is done, regardless of the actual truth.