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Aid Floatillas Attacked

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  • Options
    #962
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Adamisconfused wrote: »
    Eh....yes. I assume you believe the soldiers were within their rights to kill people in international waters to defend themselves, but the innocent people, on board their own ship, are not allowed to defend themselves in any way they see fit from a force of armed assailants who had no legal right whatsoever to be there.

    What idiot tries to kill armed soldiers?


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    #963
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Min wrote: »
    What idiot tries to kill armed soldiers?
    In a conflict everybody that's not that armed soldier.


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    #964
    bambooze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭bambooze


    Adamisconfused wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0601/1224271594113.html
    I must admit that I'm quite impressed with Micheál Martin's reactions. First time I've had anything good to say about a Fianna Fáiler in a while. It makes a change to see a reaction that isn't the usual forelock tugging we're familiar with.

    “These people did not enter Israel illegally. They were essentially kidnapped from international waters, taken into Israel, and asked to sign documents confirming that they entered illegally. That is unacceptable,” Mr Martin said.
    They should follow it up and expel the ambassador if our citizens are not freed immediately. I hope the EU finally gets tough, but it seeming as if it is unlikely.


    Cry me a river - they were involved in a violent confrontation with israel which resulted in death and injury. What did they expect? Pat on the back?

    "Kidnapped" my arse.. inflammatory language to win some political brownie points back home.


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    #965
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Min wrote: »
    Look how peaceful the people on the ship were, they only want to kill Israeli soldiers.....

    Soldiers who attacked them and murdered several people. The soldiers are a bunch of murderous pirates plain and simple.


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    #966
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    ScumLord wrote: »
    In a conflict everybody that's not that armed soldier.

    ok so you think it was justified to try and kill the soldiers?


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    #967
    El Horseboxo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭El Horseboxo


    bambooze wrote: »
    Them..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE

    No that's self defense against illegal attackers. The legal basis of the ship is that it was Turkish soil as it was in international waters and flying a Turkish flag. Armed soldiers arrived on Turkish soil in the middle of the night and instigated the illegal invasion. If you take the ship out of the equation and replace it with a beach in Turkey. Legitimate as both are Turkish soil. So Israeli soldiers land on a Turkish beach and locals precede to attack them. Would you still defend Israeli soldiers then if they shot locals on the beach? Both are Turkish soil and both are cases of being there illegally unless they were trying to instigate means for a war.

    Under international law the blockade is illegal. So it has no basis in law. Gazan waters are not Israeli waters. Doesn't matter as the boarding took place in International waters anyways. So you can't use the blockade as an excuse. Could you imagine going back to the 70/80's in Ireland and an aid ship coming to bring medicine, food, clothes, etc to people in Dublin. And then the Brits intercepted the ship in International waters and killed 9 people who tried to stop them boarding. And there excuse was we were attacked and we were trying to stop guns going to the IRA. Would you turn around and support the British in this and say it was justified?


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    #968
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    bambooze wrote: »
    Them..

    The IDF pirates attacked there ship, and murdered people, and as such there was resistance to those murderous pirates.


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    #969
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,412 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    bambooze wrote: »
    Well according to the beeb, not generally known as a mouthpiece of the IDF..
    Just saw this. That was a very nice bit of selective quoting you did there.
    Heres the sentence before the bit you quoted:
    The interception took place about 40 miles (60km) off the Gaza coast, some 25 miles beyond the formal limits of the maritime blockade Israel is maintaining on Gaza.

    And the one after:
    By intercepting beyond the blockade limits, Israel took a risk that the action would be challenged under international law, but the issue is at least debatable.

    In my view, while the people on the ship weren't blameless, the way Israel handled the situation was absolutely deplorable. They obviously expected little resistance to illegally boarding the ship in international waters.
    Also, having watched the IDF video, and as pointed out by the BBC, why does the video stop just before the Israelis begin to fire live ammunition into the crowd? I just find it strange that they cut it off at that point.


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    #970
    deisedevil
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    Min wrote: »
    If you don't like the truth, then claim it is made up.

    Where is your proof that anyone on these boats were delivering cement to Hamas? That;s a total lie and you know damn well it is. So yes, you are making shít up.

    All you have to do is look at the kinf od people that were on that ship and the kind of people that are headed there in the Rachael Corrie. They aint heading there for Hamas, they are genuine peace activists.

    Israel in the UN yesterday said these people deliberatly went out looking to cause trouble and this is nonsense and it doesn't help when people like yourself add in your own lies.


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    #971
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    wes wrote: »
    Soldiers who attacked them and murdered several people. The soldiers are a bunch of murderous pirates plain and simple.

    The soldiers were attacked first.

    The people on the ship were not obliged to attack the soldiers, they chose to and suffered the consequences for trying to murder the soldiers.


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    #972
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    bambooze wrote: »
    Cry me a river - they were involved in a violent confrontation with israel which resulted in death and injury. What did they expect? Pat on the back?

    "Kidnapped" my arse.. inflammatory language to win some political brownie points back home.

    The IDF did kidnap and murder people. They kidnap and murder people on a fairly regular basis, they just tend to be Palestinian normally.


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    #973
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Min wrote: »
    The soldiers were attacked first.

    The people on the ship were not obliged to attack the soldiers, they chose to and suffered the consequences for trying to murder the soldiers.

    The pirates attacked a ship in international waters. The people on the boat defended themselves from a group of murderous pirates.


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    #974
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    deisedevil wrote: »
    Where is your proof that anyone on these boats were delivering cement to Hamas? That;s a total lie and you know damn well it is. So yes, you are making shít up.

    All you have to do is look at the kinf od people that were on that ship and the kind of people that are headed there in the Rachael Corrie. They aint heading there for Hamas, they are genuine peace activists.

    Israel in the UN yesterday said these people deliberatly went out looking to cause trouble and this is nonsense and it doesn't help when people like yourself add in your own lies.

    It was on the Pat Kenny show this morning, talking to people on the Irish ship, they are delivering cement among other stuff.

    Hamas controls Gaza, to think they would not use aid like cement for their own means is naive.


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    #975
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Min wrote: »
    ok so you think it was justified to try and kill the soldiers?

    The soldiers did all the killing, the people on the boat defended themselves from the IDF murderers.


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    #976
    Adamisconfused
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭Adamisconfused


    bambooze wrote: »
    Cry me a river - they were involved in a violent confrontation with israel which resulted in death and injury. What did they expect? Pat on the back?

    "Kidnapped" my arse.. inflammatory language to win some political brownie points back home.

    They were captured in international waters where Israel has no legal authority. They were then forced to enter Israel against their will and are now being held hostage until the Israelis get what they want, which is for them to sign a form admitting something that isn't true.


  • Options
    #977
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    wes wrote: »
    The pirates attacked a ship in international waters. The people on the boat defended themselves from a group of murderous pirates.

    One could go down the road you are going and say, they stopped aid of questionable content being delivered directly to terrorists.


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    #978
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    'Rachel Corrie' aims to reach Gaza



    The MV Rachel Corrie will go ahead with its attempt to deliver aid to Gaza despite yesterday’s attack by the Israeli navy on Gaza-bound ship the Mavi Marmara.

    The cargo ship, which has four Irish nationals aboard, is due to arrive in Gazan waters tomorrow, a spokeswoman for the Irish Palestine Solidarity Campaign said.

    The vessel became separated from the main aid flotilla after being delayed for 48 hours in Cyprus due to logistical reasons.

    Nobel laureate Maireád Corrigan-Maguire, former UN assistant secretary general Denis Halliday, and husband and wife Derek and Jenny Graham are the Irish nationals on board.

    Speaking from the ship today, Mr Graham said the vessel was carrying educational materials, construction materials and some toys. “Everything aboard has been inspected in Ireland,” he said. “We would hope to have safe passage through.”

    Speaking on RTÉ’s Today with Pat Kenny , Ms Maguire said none of the aid ships carry arms and are "purely humanitarian". She said it was necessary for the vessel to complete its mission to assure the people of Gaza the world does care.

    “Their port has been closed for over 40 years . . . 1.5 million people, it’s like the population of Northern Ireland, totally cut off from the world by this inhumane illegal siege of Gaza . . . their borders are closed . . . there is a shortage of medicines,” she said.

    “Could you imagine if that happened to the 1.5 million people in Northern Ireland, the world would be absolutely crying out that this stop immediately."

    Labour foreign affairs spokesman Michael D Higgins today called on the Government to demand safe passage for the MV Rachel Corrie .

    In a statement, he said some of those on the vessel had contacted him earlier today and had stressed they wanted to avoid conflict and to be allowed unload their cargo to help the residents of the Gaza Strip.

    "The Minister for Foreign Affairs . . . must make it clear that any assault on the Rachel Corrie would be regarded as a hostile act against Ireland and a clear breach of international law that could not be ignored by this country," Mr Higgins said.

    Fine Gael foreign affairs spokesman Billy Timmins also called for the safe passage of the vessel.

    "The Rachel Corrie should also be granted access to Gaza so much needed aid can get through," he said.

    Irish Times

    "The Minister for Foreign Affairs . . . must make it clear that any assault from the Rachel Corrie would be regarded as a hostile act against Isreal and a clear breach of international law that could not be ignored by that country," Mr Higgins said.

    Fixed that for him.


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    #979
    El Horseboxo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭El Horseboxo


    bambooze wrote: »
    Cry me a river - they were involved in a violent confrontation with israel which resulted in death and injury. What did they expect? Pat on the back?

    "Kidnapped" my arse.. inflammatory language to win some political brownie points back home.

    They were essentially kidnapped. They were not arrested on Israeli soil or in their waters. They might as well have kidnapped them from O Connell street.


  • Options
    #980
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    wes wrote: »
    The soldiers did all the killing, the people on the boat defended themselves from the IDF murderers.

    The soldiers defended themselves, they didn't expect the people on board the ship to be murderous.


  • Options
    #981
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Min wrote: »
    ok so you think it was justified to try and kill the soldiers?
    I don't think anyone's justified in killing or beating anyone. The soldiers where stupid to storm a the boat like that, what did they honestly expect? The beating the soldiers got was wrong too but they're people defending their property and there was a mob of them, everyone knows mobs are brainless and violent. Israel should have had more sense, they are the one with experts and tactile commanders they should have known this would end badly.


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    #982
    cyrusdvirus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭cyrusdvirus


    It's the Judean Peoples Front!!

    http://www.jpost.com/International/A...aspx?id=177139


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    #983
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Min wrote: »
    The soldiers defended themselves, they didn't expect the people on board the ship to be murderous.

    No, they attacked and killed people. The IDF are bunch of murderous thugs, who had no business on the boat.


  • Options
    #984
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Min wrote: »
    One could go down the road you are going and say, they stopped aid of questionable content being delivered directly to terrorists.

    No, they didn't. They murdered a bunch of people, who were delivering aid, which was checked. The IDF are murderer's, and terrorists in this instance.


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    #985
    itac
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭itac


    bambooze wrote: »
    .....

    "Kidnapped" my arse.. inflammatory language to win some political brownie points back home.

    AFAIK, Irish citizens were taken from the ship they were on (in International waters...), and are being held against their will, not being released, or allowed to leave until they sign a statement claiming that they were arrested in Israeli waters....

    If you don't think that's being kidnapped, then, out of curiousity, how do you define being kidnapped?:confused:


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    #986
    Adamisconfused
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭Adamisconfused


    Min wrote: »
    What idiot tries to kill armed soldiers?

    That doesn't detract from the fact that the people on the ship were well within their rights to defend themselves against unwarranted aggression. For that, they were killed. Whether it was a silly move or not is a different discussion.


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    #987
    bambooze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭bambooze


    El Horseboxo wrote: »
    No that's self defense against illegal attackers. The legal basis of the ship is that it was Turkish soil as it was in international waters and flying a Turkish flag. Armed soldiers arrived on Turkish soil in the middle of the night and instigated the illegal invasion. If you take the ship out of the equation and replace it with a beach in Turkey. Legitimate as both are Turkish soil. So Israeli soldiers land on a Turkish beach and locals precede to attack them. Would you still defend Israeli soldiers then if they shot locals on the beach? Both are Turkish soil and both are cases of being there illegally unless they were trying to instigate means for a war.

    Well israel warned turkey in advance not to send their beach to break the blockade. Once the turkish invasion beach set sail and again refused israeli demands to turn back, then israel acted to take control of the turkish beach.

    So despite israels repeated protestations, turkey still unleashed their invasion beach against an israeli military blockade - so israel was within its rights to land on said beach.


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    #988
    snow ghost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭snow ghost


    Wes,

    It's a waste of enregy trying to argue with people who justify the unlawful murder of innocent civilians by Israel - they are on a par with Nazi apologists and beyond contempt.

    The vast majority of the World is appalled by this murder by Israel, what a minority of murdererous apologists think is sickening, but something for their own conscience.


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    #989
    bambooze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭bambooze


    itac wrote: »
    AFAIK, Irish citizens were taken from the ship they were on (in International waters...), and are being held against their will, not being released, or allowed to leave until they sign a statement claiming that they were arrested in Israeli waters....

    If you don't think that's being kidnapped, then, out of curiousity, how do you define being kidnapped?:confused:

    Well I suppose one alternative would be for israel to make the irish citizens walk the plank out there in the middle of the sea before towing the ship to israel. Would they have preferred that?

    Since they were on a vessel where many were killed and injured and violence in which which they may even have partaken, you can bet your life israel will be weeding out all those involved in the lynch mob.. they are ALL suspects until israel is satisified otherwise.


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    #990
    doncarlos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭doncarlos


    snow ghost wrote: »
    It's a waste of enregy trying to argue with people who justify the unlawful murder of innocent civilians by Israel - they are on a par with Nazi apologists and beyond contempt.

    This makes the whole thing worse in my opinion. The lack of remorse coming from the Israelis and their apologists on here is going to turn more people against them


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    #991
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    snow ghost wrote: »
    Wes,

    It's a waste of enregy trying to argue with people who justify the unlawful murder of innocent civilians by Israel - they are on a par with Nazi apologists and beyond contempt.

    The vast majority of the World is appalled by this murder by Israel, what a minority of murdererous apologists think is sickening, but something for their own conscience.

    I don't agree with the killings.

    I don't believe there was a need for the violence by the people on the ship when the soldiers dropped in.

    The violence led to more violence and the outcome was bad - this all goes back to the delivering of aid which could be landed in Israel to be delivered once it didn't contain stuff that terrorists could use.
    Why did they want to deal directly with a terrorist ruled area, what were they afraid of the Israelis finding on the ship?
    Break the blockade and God knows what weapons would be landing in Gaza by supporters of terrorism.


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