Aid Floatillas Attacked

doncarlos

bambooze wrote: »

they are ALL suspects until israel is satisified otherwise.

Under what law?? Israel has no right to take any never mind detain anybody.

Winty

Should the Israeli Hierarchy have sent it troops to board the boat? Probably not.
They should have listened to their friends in the Turkish Government

Should the troops who landed on the deck have defended themselves? Yes of course.

Some people got killed and the Israeli government has apologised but Hamas need to be stopped from importing arms into the Gaza strip they will kill Israeli citizens giving half a change.

wes

Winty wrote: »

Should the Israeli Hierarchy have sent it troops to board the boat? Probably not.
They should have listened to their friends in the Turkish Government

Should the troops who landed on the deck have defended themselves? Yes of course.

Some people got killed and the Israeli government has apologised but Hamas need to be stopped from importing arms into the Gaza strip they will kill Israeli citizens giving half a change.

When Israel stop murdering people, and stop there illegal act of collective punishment of 1.5 million people, then maybe they can make some demands.

**EDIT**
Also, the commando's should be sent to Turkey for trial for murder on Turkish terroritory.

doncarlos

Winty wrote: »

Some people got killed and the Israeli government has apologised

Source please???

Ardent

doncarlos wrote: »

This makes the whole thing worse in my opinion. The lack of remorse coming from the Israelis and their apologists on here is going to turn more people against them

Israel has already said the deaths are regretted. The thing is, the soldiers didn't open fire without cause, they clearly acted in self-defense (there is video footage showing a huge mob of activists mauling Israeli soldiers).

I can see why they might not apologise.

wes

Ardent wrote: »

Israel has already said the deaths are regretted. The thing is, the soldiers didn't open fire without cause, they clearly acted in self-defense (there is video footage showing a huge mob of activists mauling Israeli soldiers).

I can see why they might not apologise.

The commando's killed people, and then were attacked. Also, the IDF video was cut to leave out the Commando's murdering people.

ScumLord

snow ghost wrote: »

Wes,

It's a waste of enregy trying to argue with people who justify the unlawful murder of innocent civilians by Israel - they are on a par with Nazi apologists and beyond contempt.

The vast majority of the World is appalled by this murder by Israel, what a minority of murdererous apologists think is sickening, but something for their own conscience.

That's a very black and white viewpoint, the Palestinians are by no means innocent, if they where indiscriminately firing rockets at Ireland you can be sure we'd attack back any way we could.

The IRA as bad and all as they where attacked the British state more so than civilians at the very least they weren't as indiscriminate as Hamas. Suicide bombers and random rockets destroy their argument completely in my eyes and I'd like to side with the underdog and even think that Israel are completely in the wrong too.

My point is, they're both to blame, Israel is as bad as the Palestinians and visa versa.

Ardent

wes wrote: »

The commando's killed people, and then were attacked.

Have you video evidence of this? If not, stop talking crap.

prinz

wes wrote: »

The commando's killed people, and then were attacked. Also, the IDF video was cut to leave out the Commando's murdering people.

So we don't have the video of the commando's killing anyone.... yet you still know what order everything happened in? It's quite clear from the IDF video and the live broadcast from the ship, that no one was killed before IDF soldiers reached the deck.

doncarlos

Ardent wrote: »

Israel has already said the deaths are regretted. The thing is, the soldiers didn't open fire without cause, they clearly acted in self-defense (there is video footage showing a huge mob of activists mauling Israeli soldiers).

I can see why they might not apologise.

We don't know and may never know what exactly happened. How can you be so sure they acted in self defence and those on the ships were not. The video starts in the middle of what went on, what happened before it?
I don't for one second believe the reports coming from the Israelis. As reports originating from them usually conflict from what aid agencies and the UN say.

EDIT: There is also a massive difference between regretting something and apologising for something.

itac

itac wrote: »

AFAIK, Irish citizens were taken from the ship they were on (in International waters...), and are being held against their will, not being released, or allowed to leave until they sign a statement claiming that they were arrested in Israeli waters....

If you don't think that's being kidnapped, then, out of curiousity, how do you define being kidnapped?

bambooze wrote: »

Well I suppose one alternative would be for israel to make the irish citizens walk the plank out there in the middle of the sea before towing the ship to israel. Would they have preferred that?

Since they were on a vessel where many were killed and injured and violence in which which they may even have partaken, you can bet your life israel will be weeding out all those involved in the lynch mob.. they are ALL suspects until israel is satisified otherwise.

Question dodge...:D

Not looking for alternative treatments of plankwalking, or other such activities....you're saying Micheal Martin was using inflammatory language, yet to me, what he's describing is a kidnapping....that was my question to you....:)

As for this statement....."they are ALL suspects until israel is satisified otherwise."

Surely with Israel's past, they would follow the innocent 'til proven guilty train of thought? Or is that me making some form of anti-semitic statement?

Winty

wes wrote: »

the commando's should be sent to Turkey for trial for murder on Turkish terroritory.

I agree with you but can the case be put on hold as Turkey also has a long history of poor relations with Armenia over its refusal to acknowledge the Armenian Genocide of 1915. Maybe we can have the case first

People in a glass house opening doors, you know what I mean

wes

Ardent wrote: »

Have you video evidence of this? If not, stop talking crap.

Its was posted earlier, several times. Also, the IDF footage is heavily edited, and the IDF are well known to do this. So you own version of event are complete nonsense.

wes

prinz wrote: »

So we don't have the video of the commando's killing anyone.... yet you still know what order everything happened in? It's quite clear from the IDF video and the live broadcast from the ship, that no one was killed before IDF soldiers reached the deck.

No, it isn't quite clear. The IDF video was heavily edited, to hide there murder of innocent people.

You are also ignore the video, where the IDF fired before boarding, and where the people on board said 2 were killed with those first shots.

griffdaddy

Min wrote: »

Why did they want to deal directly with a terrorist ruled area, what were they afraid of the Israelis finding on the ship?
Break the blockade and God knows what weapons would be landing in Gaza by supporters of terrorism.

I'm sure the nobel peace price winner had a snuke in her snatch and the holocaust survivor had a crate of grenades ready to be used on her fellow Jews, all of which was missed by Cypriot inspectors. Are you actually insane? Even if these people wanted to smuggle weapons in, I doubt they'd do it in such a high profile way. The reason they wanted to go directly to Gaza is because not nearly enough aid is getting through Israeli ports and into Gaza over land, both the UN and EU have said this. It's not surprising either, I'm sure Israeli military transport workers don't exactly bust their balls to get aid to Gaza on time and in good condition. The obvious thing to do is to cut out the hostile middle man and deliver the aid yourself.

wes

Winty wrote: »

I agree with you but can the case be put on hold as Turkey also has a long history of poor relations with Armenia over its refusal to acknowledge the Armenian Genocide of 1915. Maybe we can have the case first

Ah, more whataboutery. You could care less about the Armenians are instead invoking there genocide, to defend Israels murderous piracy.

Winty wrote: »

People in a glass house opening doors, you know what I mean

Yeah, its amazing that you resort to talking about something that has nothing to do with the topic, to defend Israels murderous assault on the floatilla.

doncarlos

griffdaddy wrote: »

UN and EU have said this.

The UN and the EU are liars!!! Everyone is out to get poor old Israel.... :rolleyes:

prinz

wes wrote: »

Its was posted earlier, several times. Also, the IDF footage is heavily edited, and the IDF are well known to do this. So you own version of event are complete nonsense.

Compare the IDF footage and the live broadcast and come back yeah? Notice how the correspondant on the ship says nothing about people being dead, while reporting that IDF were boarding the vessel? Notice how it is only after you can see the soldiers reach the deck that you can hear gunfire (paintball and then actual gunfire from what it sounds like) and then the reporter mentions people being hit? Or do you have reason to believe that the fact that people were being murdered prior to the commandos landing just slipped his mind?

Hammer Archer

Winty wrote: »

Some people got killed and the Israeli government has apologised but Hamas need to be stopped from importing arms into the Gaza strip they will kill Israeli citizens giving half a change.

I may be wrong, but doesn't Hamas have a ceasefire in operation at the moment?
Ever since they came to power they have had numerous ceasefires and have honoured them if I remember correctly. However I could be wrong about a ceasefire being in place at the moment.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Ardent wrote: »

Have you video evidence of this? If not, stop talking crap.

prinz wrote: »

So we don't have the video of the commando's killing anyone.... yet you still know what order everything happened in? It's quite clear from the IDF video and the live broadcast from the ship, that no one was killed before IDF soldiers reached the deck.

Eh, yes there was, one person was reported DEAD before any commando set foot on the ship, others were injured too, they raised a white flag and these degenerate dogs kept firing, commandos then boarded the boat and were attacked, that is my understanding of events from the videos I have seen. If so, the soldiers didn't receive enough beatings.

B0jangles

@ MIN

I have posted several refutations of your statements, with actual sources to back up my points, all of which you have ignored.

You are not participating in a discussion, you are repeating the same claims over and over again in the face of all the evidence given by other posters here.

Dar

prinz wrote: »

It's quite clear from the IDF video and the live broadcast from the ship, that no one was killed before IDF soldiers reached the deck.

The videos prove nothing of the sort. They show that the Israeli boarding party was immediately set upon as they rappelled on to the deck, but there are claims that shots were fired prior to the ship being boarded. No footage has been released which disproves this, and no footage has been released of the shots fired after the initial boarding.

Regardless, boarding the ship in and of itself was a hostile act.

wes

prinz wrote: »

Compare the IDF footage and the live broadcast and come back yeah? Notice how the correspondant on the ship says nothing about people being dead, while reporting that IDF were boarding the vessel? Notice how it is only after you can see the soldiers reach the deck that you can hear gunfire (paintball and then actual gunfire from what it sounds like) and then the reported mentions people being hit? Or do you have reason to believe that the fact that people were being murdered prior to the commandos landing just slipped his mind?

Wow, he was unaware that people were already killed by the IDF pirates. Hardly conclusive proof, but nice try nontheless.

Also, the IDF claims are of course lies. The IDF always lie when they murder people, and they are doing the exact same thing now. The IDF has a media blackout, to ensure the truth doesn't get out. So I have to wonder what there hiding, probably an atrocity.

prinz

wes wrote: »

Wow, he was unaware that people were already killed by the IDF pirates. Hardly conclusive proof, but nice try nontheless..

So tell us wes, how did you come by the information that people were already dead, if somebody on the ship at the time had no clue?

bambooze

snow ghost wrote: »

Wes,

It's a waste of enregy trying to argue with people who justify the unlawful murder of innocent civilians by Israel - they are on a par with Nazi apologists and beyond contempt.

The vast majority of the World is appalled by this murder by Israel, what a minority of murdererous apologists think is sickening, but something for their own conscience.

Despite the extreme violence use by the "peace activists"? They may well have been hamas members or something of that ilk. They were sure as hell not peaceful. Should israeli soldiers just allow themselves to be beaten to death to appease public opinion?

FYI it has happened before.. three unarmed israeli soldiers were lynched by palestinians in the west bank a few years back.. beaten to death and thrown from the upstairs window.. and filmed. But hey it was just the (large crowd of) poor downtrodden pali civilians that did it so of course it was israels fault.

Whatever your political views, defending a lynch mob doesnt really make sense to me. Your issue is really that israeli soldiers ulimately have a higher kill ratio? What if the mob had killed an equal number of soldiers? Would that equivalence make it ok for you? Last I checked there was nothing in the rules that said conflicts must have equal casualties.

The "peace activists" basically tried to kill the israelis which can be clearly seen on the videos. Ignore that truth all you want, the facts remain.

prinz

Dar wrote: »

. No footage has been released which disproves this, and no footage has been released of the shots fired after the initial boarding..

Quite, and no footage has been released which proves it either. Yet it is still being repeated as fact.

El Horseboxo

bambooze wrote: »

Well israel warned turkey in advance not to send their beach to break the blockade. Once the turkish invasion beach set sail and again refused israeli demands to turn back, then israel acted to take control of the turkish beach.

So despite israels repeated protestations, turkey still unleashed their invasion beach against an israeli military blockade - so israel was within its rights to land on said beach.

But if Turkey were following the law they were not breaking any blockade as it does not exist in a legal basis. So Israel have no right to tell them to turn anywhere. And even if the blockade was legal they still have no right to board the ship in International waters. Army, Navy or whatever they have no legal right under maritime law. So explain to me what right it is that they had to be on there? You and defenders of Israel's actions have danced around answering that question. And don't spew the line of Israel that they were stopping arms reaching Hamas. They knew there were no arms on that ship and the activists would not be stupid enough to undermine their aim and goals by bringing arms on board. And even if there was a big cannon on the front of the ship they can't do anything other than escort it until it is in their waters. If the activists had of attacked without the IDF being on the ship well then they would have had every right to board. But since that did not happen they had no right. You can't ignore that fact.

B0jangles

wes wrote: »

Wow, he was unaware that people were already killed by the IDF pirates. Hardly conclusive proof, but nice try nontheless.

Also, the IDF claims are of course lies. The IDF always lie when they murder people, and they are doing the exact same thing now.

Yeah, the IDF - printing up t-shirts with HILARIOUS jokes about shooting pregnant palestinian women



http://wallstreetmeeting.de/videos/israeli-army-t-shirts-mock-gaza-killings/

I trust them to produce fair and unbiased information :rolleyes:

Dyr

bambooze wrote: »

Well I suppose one alternative would be for israel to make the irish citizens walk the plank out there in the middle of the sea before towing the ship to israel. Would they have preferred that?

Since they were on a vessel where many were killed and injured and violence in which which they may even have partaken, you can bet your life israel will be weeding out all those involved in the lynch mob.. they are ALL suspects until israel is satisified otherwise.

lol a lynch mob is supposed to go looking for its victim. When you bail in on top of a ships crew carrying weapons you're not being lynched, you're being repelled. So tell us, did you pick up this lynch buzzword from the IDF press releases or was an e-mail sent around?

wes

prinz wrote: »

So tell us wes, how did you come by the information that people were already dead, if somebody on the ship at the time had no clue?

Well, there are 2 sides, and I believe the floatilla people, who managed to get some info out, before Israel blackout and cover up of there murder of innocent people.

Its perfectly possible in all the confusion, not everyone was aware of what was going on, but its very simple to me. Israel have as much credibility as Hamas to me, and as such I don't believe a word that they have said.