Aid Floatillas Attacked

El Horseboxo

bambooze wrote: »

Well I suppose one alternative would be for israel to make the irish citizens walk the plank out there in the middle of the sea before towing the ship to israel. Would they have preferred that?

Since they were on a vessel where many were killed and injured and violence in which which they may even have partaken, you can bet your life israel will be weeding out all those involved in the lynch mob.. they are ALL suspects until israel is satisified otherwise.

But as it was Turkish soil it is Turkey's legal right to investigate. Not Israels. And the problem is not that they were brought to Israel. It is that they are being detained for which Israel has no right to and are being forced to sign documents. Would you agree to be arrested by IDF here in Ireland for starting a fight with an Israeli citizen, then taken to Israel and forced to sign a document stating you were arrested in Israel and can be punished under their law instead of Ireland's? I highly doubt it.

bambooze

wes wrote: »

The commando's killed people, and then were attacked.

There is no proof of this, just wild allegations.

doncarlos

It seems like the Israelis are threating their "guests" very well. Why would they confinscate their laptops and phones?? Afrid there may maybe damning evidence on it?

“I was one of the first victims to be released because I had a child,” she said, but “they confiscated everything, our telephones, laptops are all gone.” Her husband – the ship’s engineer – was still being held by Israel.

“During their interrogation, many of them were badly beaten in front of us,” said Aris Papadokostopoulos, who was on the Free Mediterranean travelling behind the Turkish ship.

He said that, while in Israeli custody, authorities had demanded he sign a paper written in Hebrew. He refused, and was eventually given another document that he signed.

“Everyone who didn’t accept to sign is in jail,” he said.



Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/flotilla-raid-passengers-tell-of-violent-attacks-459959.html#ixzz0pbfmRHuZ

El Horseboxo

Min wrote: »

I don't agree with the killings.

I don't believe there was a need for the violence by the people on the ship when the soldiers dropped in.

The violence led to more violence and the outcome was bad - this all goes back to the delivering of aid which could be landed in Israel to be delivered once it didn't contain stuff that terrorists could use.
Why did they want to deal directly with a terrorist ruled area, what were they afraid of the Israelis finding on the ship?
Break the blockade and God knows what weapons would be landing in Gaza by supporters of terrorism.

As Israel controls the ports in Gaza the normal protocol is to search the ship once it is docked. Not board and search in the middle of the night with armed soldiers. Why was it different for this ship? Plenty of ships dock in Gaza and are searched by normal protocol.

omega666

bambooze wrote: »

Despite the extreme violence use by the "peace activists"? They may well have been hamas members or something of that ilk. They were sure as hell not peaceful. Should israeli soldiers just allow themselves to be beaten to death to appease public opinion?

FYI it has happened before.. three unarmed israeli soldiers were lynched by palestinians in the west bank a few years back.. beaten to death and thrown from the upstairs window.. and filmed. But hey it was just the (large crowd of) poor downtrodden pali civilians that did it so of course it was israels fault.

Whatever your political views, defending a lynch mob doesnt really make sense to me. Your issue is really that israeli soldiers ulimately have a higher kill ratio? What if the mob had killed an equal number of soldiers? Would that equivalence make it ok for you? Last I checked there was nothing in the rules that said conflicts must have equal casualties.

The "peace activists" basically tried to kill the israelis which can be clearly seen on the videos. Ignore that truth all you want, the facts remain.

there are no facts becuase they woulnt allow the people on the board to
tell thier story.

the only thing you are going on is edited video clips released the the IDF press office that is obviously not going to show them slaughtering inccoent AID workers.

for all you know the IDF could have shot the 9 people before the clip was taken and then the clip shows AID workers were fighting for thier lives.

wes

bambooze wrote: »

There is no proof of this, just wild allegations.

Now, we have one side, known liars the IDF, and the other who suffered numerous deaths at the hand of the other. I am going to believe the victim here.

You are scrapping the bottom of the barrel here, with your absurd denial.

Dar

prinz wrote: »

Quite, and no footage has been released which proves it either. Yet it is still being repeated as fact.

I don't know if its true or not, and I haven't seen anything which proves or disproves it. However, it is established fact that the Israelis boarded the ship in international waters, outside of Israeli territorial waters and even outside the blockade zone (a blockade which is considered by many to be illegal). Doing so was a hostile act. The passengers and crew had every right to defend themselves.

Israel instigated this illegal boarding and as such should be held entirely accountable for the outcome.

bambooze

itac wrote: »

As for this statement....."they are ALL suspects until israel is satisified otherwise."

Surely with Israel's past, they would follow the innocent 'til proven guilty train of thought? Or is that me making some form of anti-semitic statement?

Well they are just suspects, nobody said they are guilty yet. Besides which I think they'll have a tough job using an alibi like "honest guv, I was home in bed with the missus at the time!" on account of them being on the boat in the middle of the sea running a blockade.

I'd be interested to hear what western witnesses on board have to say about the lynch mob.. will they have the balls to speak up or will they just tow the party line - "evil israel! we wus all just playing tiddlywinks!"

bambooze

doncarlos wrote: »

“During their interrogation, many of them were badly beaten in front of us,” said Aris Papadokostopoulos, who was on the Free Mediterranean travelling behind the Turkish ship"

I call major BS on that claim.

Pride Fighter

Facebook group created for the purpose of expelling the Israeli ambassador http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=131592446856082

Personally I'd agree with that position, firstly because they used stolen Irish passports to murder 2 months ago and secondly because of yesterdays cowardly act.

wes

bambooze wrote: »

I call major BS on that claim.

So you were there?!?

bambooze

omega666 wrote: »

the only thing you are going on is edited video clips released the the IDF press office

They can edit it until the cows come home but there's no way to dispute the clear fact that the "peace activists" were seriously laying in to the israelis with clubs and all sorts of other weapons.

Dar

bambooze wrote: »

Well they are just suspects, nobody said they are guilty yet. Besides which I think they'll have a tough job using an alibi like "honest guv, I was home in bed with the missus at the time!" on account of them being on the boat in the middle of the sea running a blockade.

I'd be interested to hear what western witnesses on board have to say about the lynch mob.. will they have the balls to speak up or will they just tow the party line - "evil israel! we wus all just playing tiddlywinks!"

Given that the ship was under Turkish jurisdiction at the time of the assault, I think you'll find it is up to the Turkish courts to decide whether they are "guilty" or not.

wes

bambooze wrote: »

They can edit it until the cows come home but there's no way to dispute the clear fact that the "peace activists" were seriously laying in to the israelis with clubs and all sorts of other weapons.

Yes, which they claimed happened after the IDF attacked them illegally.

bambooze

wes wrote: »

Now, we have one side, known liars the IDF, and the other who suffered numerous deaths at the hand of the other. I am going to believe the victim here.

You are scrapping the bottom of the barrel here, with your absurd denial.

Whatever, still doesn't change the fact that you have no proof, just wild accusations. Such things wont hold up in any court but that of public opinion.

Ardent

wes wrote: »

Its was posted earlier, several times.

Link please - to video footage showing IDF soldiers shooting aid workers before being set upon by said workers. Otherwise, I'll just assume you're just wishfully making stuff up.

wes

bambooze wrote: »

Whatever, still doesn't change the fact that you have no proof, just wild accusations. Such things wont hold up in any court but that of public opinion.

What proof do you have? Oh wait none.

The fact of course still remains, Israel had no right to be on the boat in anyways. So thats all I need really.

Dar

bambooze wrote: »

They can edit it until the cows come home but there's no way to dispute the clear fact that the "peace activists" were seriously laying in to the israelis with clubs and all sorts of other weapons.

wes wrote: »

Yes, which they claimed happened after the IDF attacked them illegally.

Boarding the ship constituted an attack. As such, the videos clearly show the "peace activists" defending themselves from an Israeli attack.

Gigiwagga

Pauleta wrote: »

I would love to see how long all these Palestian lovers on here would last on the streets of Gaza without being kidnapped or beheaded :rolleyes:

So you're suggesting those who express anti-Israeli opinion should be beheaded, geez that's nice of you. Of course the Israelis are the chosen people they can do what they want, in Gods name etc, without fear of sanction, because Big Daddy is watching over them. Israel owes nothing to anybody, right? Palestine was always theirs, they just had to take it back right?. In fact that was never really Palestine was it, it was always Israel, right?

B0jangles

bambooze wrote: »

Whatever, still doesn't change the fact that you have no proof, just wild accusations. Such things wont hold up in any court but that of public opinion.

I love the way that in your weird world any statements which make Israel look bad are "wild allegations", including EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS.

ScumLord

bambooze wrote: »

FYI it has happened before.. three unarmed israeli soldiers were lynched by palestinians in the west bank a few years back.. beaten to death and thrown from the upstairs window.. and filmed. But hey it was just the (large crowd of) poor downtrodden pali civilians that did it so of course it was israels fault.

Where on earth did they find unarmed Israeli soldiers? Everything I've seen about Israeli men shows they are very attached to their guns. While I don't doubt those men could have been killed I find it hard to imagine they went for a stroll unarmed through Gaza one evening. The way you've told the storey it sounds like something's missing.

wes

Ardent wrote: »

Link please - to video footage showing IDF soldiers shooting aid workers before being set upon by said workers. Otherwise, I'll just assume you're just wishfully making stuff up.

No, link was already posted. I see no reason to keep posting things, when you have already seen them.

Also, the video doesn't show people being shot, but shots are heard before the IDF board.

Also, finally the IDF had no right to attack the boat. So, there guilty either way.

bambooze

wes wrote: »

So you were there?!?

Were you?

My opinion is that he's talking through his arse, based on the fact that these are typically fairly radical activists and I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw em.

ejmaztec

bambooze wrote: »

They can edit it until the cows come home but there's no way to dispute the clear fact that the "peace activists" were seriously laying in to the israelis with clubs and all sorts of other weapons.

If I was sitting on some ship in international waters, and a bunch of nervous gun-toting unpredictables dropped out of the sky, I'd be reaching for the nearest defensive tool as well, as I would naturally assume that they were out to kill me.

wes

bambooze wrote: »

Were you?

My opinion is that he's talking through his arse, based on the fact that these are typically fairly radical activists and I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw em.

Have any proof for these claims against the man character then?

Also, No I wasn't there.

Still, the fact remains Israel attacked the boat. No amount of denialism and obfuscation will change that.

B0jangles

bambooze wrote: »

Were you?

My opinion is that he's talking through his arse, based on the fact that these are typically fairly radical activists and I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw em.

At this stage I can visualize you personally witnessing IDF troops shooting dead a baby while shouting "Death to Palestine!" and you'd STILL say there wasn't enough evidence to justify holding Israel responsible in any way.

omega666

bambooze wrote: »

They can edit it until the cows come home but there's no way to dispute the clear fact that the "peace activists" were seriously laying in to the israelis with clubs and all sorts of other weapons.

how do you know the AID workers werent defending themselves and just trying to stop the IDF attacking them? you dont becuase we havent been shown the entire video.

Gigiwagga

bambooze wrote: »

Whatever, still doesn't change the fact that you have no proof, just wild accusations. Such things wont hold up in any court but that of public opinion.

Hmmm that dreaded Public Opinion raises it's ugly head again, I think it's time to roll out the endless persecution of the jews ala the Holocaust etc. After all they are the only true victims the long history of humanity has known.

They deserve to make others suffer, they had it so bad who can blame them.

B0jangles

I think it's shameful how the Holocaust and the history of jewish persecution has been hijacked by Israel to justify their more repugnant and horrific acts.

bambooze

B0jangles wrote: »

I love the way that in your weird world any statements which make Israel look bad are "wild allegations", including EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS.

Eye witness accounts of those with a declared pro-pali agenda, engaged in an anti-israel protest.. thats like taking the word of jack the ripper in a room full of dead whores.

I'll wait for eye witness accounts by independent observers or journos, backed up with video evidence (which so far doesnt look good for the peace activists).