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Aid Floatillas Attacked

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12467…55

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    #92
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    On Pat Kenny just now the Rachel Corrie was a good distance behind the fleet and was not involved in this mornings incident. They are deciding whether to return to cyprus or continue on.
    Everyone on board is comfirmed as safe and well.

    This is an act of piracy, pure and simple. The ships where in international waters. Up to 16 people have been murdered today.


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    #93
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    prinz wrote: »
    Of course it matters.

    You do not attack a humanitarian aid ship in international waters. Israel does not rule the waves you know.


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    #94
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    iguana wrote: »
    Yes as it happens the Free Gaza Movement is an internationally recognised humanitarian organisation, endorsed by the likes of Desmond Tutu, and they are who organised this.


    So you won't have any difficulty showing what international organisations/countries recognise it officially then? Endorsements by private individuals is not international recognition.


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    #95
    iguana
    Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    prinz wrote: »
    So you won't have any difficulty showing what international organisations/countries recognise it officially then? Endorsements by private individuals is not internation recognition.

    States don't have to endorse aid/campaigning organisations/charities. They are usually non-governmental, it's what NGO stands for. You actually don't have a clue about what you are on about do you?

    It is however Registered Charity #HE 246993 in the US, Registered Charity No. 1101899 in the UK and will be registered in any country it raises funds in.


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    #96
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Israeli spokesman said that the Activists fired first and then Israeli commandos fired back in response (on Sky news). A Sky news correspondent went on to say that one of the activists may have grabbed a handgun/ rifle and started firing which caused the Israeli commandos' harsh response.

    Also (according to Sky News), Israel is telling its citizens to avoid travel to Turkey as a Turkish spokesman said something about Israel facing harsh consequences for its actions.


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    #97
    Pauleta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,778 ✭✭✭Pauleta


    gurramok wrote: »
    Talk about heartless. I'd never thought I'd see the day you condone the killing of aid workers.

    The moment they they tried to take the Israeli's guns from them they were no longer aid workers they became combatants.


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    #98
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Have there ever been any actual protests at the Israeli embassy in Ireland? Maybe even a group that organizes/publicizes them?


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    #99
    Raiser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭Raiser


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    "Hopefully they turn out to be false" - in other words, not only did you arrogantly ignore the sub-forums (there is a humanities forum) you also posted that rant before waiting to find out if it's even true? Are you a journalist??

    Where did you see a rant? I hate the fact that anything posted in After Hours that's not a Maddie joke or a Hah!-larious Fart joke is subject to this low-brow dismissive, reactionary shíte.

    - I 'Thanked' your post - Just in case that's what you were after.....


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    #100
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    Isreal has nukes, Turkey does'nt. Isreal has an army, Ireland does'nt (thanks largely to the same idiots who love neutrality but hate Isreal). Isreal has cash, Greece does'nt. Isreal is strong, everyone else is weak. What is going to happen? - sweet fcuk all.

    All these countries including Ireland are all mouth but don't have anything to back it up with.


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    #101
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,189 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Of course Israel is going to say, we were fired at first thus ignoring the attack they carried out on the aid convoy in international waters


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    #102
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    Jesus, the boards.ie IDF regemint are out in force!

    Are you really trying to justify the boarding of a ship in international waters, an act of piracy, and the deaths of up too 16 people?

    Get a grip ffs!


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    #103
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,189 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Pauleta wrote: »
    The moment they they tried to take the Israeli's guns from them they were no longer aid workers they became combatants.

    Laughable in the extreme


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    #104
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Pauleta wrote: »
    The moment they they tried to take the Israeli's guns from them they were no longer aid workers they became combatants.

    We don't know yet if that really happened.


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    #105
    iguana
    Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    Have there ever been any actual protests at the Israeli embassy in Ireland? Maybe even a group that organizes/publicizes them?

    Lots over the years. And there is one organised for this evening.


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    #106
    moonpurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭moonpurple


    i am not suggesting you look for israeli fresh produce in shops and damage it while examining it as a prospective purchase...:cool:

    but look for israeli goods and boycott them

    mostly fruit and veg in big shops

    but also large plastic garden lockers and playhouses in homebase

    i have had enough of these lethal nazi bullies:mad:

    another bloody sunday folks

    lets attack their export market..

    (i am not from the arabic community)


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    #107
    FishFood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭FishFood


    Very confused as to how anyone can defend Israel's actions here, I mean sure in the past there has been some claim of provocation/reaction to their actions in Gaza etc but in this case the facts speak for themselves:1) Aid ships in international waters2) Israel issues warning that ships are running a blockade if the enter ISRAELI waters3) Aid ships continue4) Israel boards ships in INTERNATIONAL waters instead of waiting for them to enter Israeli territory5) Some activists attempt to defend their ship from boarding6) 10-15 activists end up dead with a few soldiers 'injured'Now please point out where Hamas come in to this as some posters keep going on about. Please point out why everyone keeps saying the activists brought this on themselves by defending their ship, of course they were!! They were effectively being hijacked illegally in international waters! You are entitled to defend yourself! Its a fairly black and white situation, Israel had no right to board the ships, activists/aid workers had every right to defend their ships and themselves. Simple as. If they had boarded the ships in their own territorial waters then they would have some excuse, but they didn't, so they don't.


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    #108
    iguana
    Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Pauleta wrote: »
    The moment they they tried to take the Israeli's guns from them they were no longer aid workers they became combatants.

    Yeah imagine having a boarding party land on your property from helicopters aiming guns at you and threatening you in a part of the world where no army has jurisdiction and having the audacity to try and protect yourself? I mean when soldiers come on your property somewhere they have no right to be they are either rogue or committing an act of war.

    But I guess by your reckoning people should just accept that? So when Germany invaded Poland in 1939 everyone should just have gone along with them? Or maybe just because one group has more firepower it doesn't give them the right to do what they like?


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    #109
    itac
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭itac


    moonpurple wrote: »
    i am not suggesting you look for israeli fresh produce in shops and damage it while examining it as a prospective purchase...:cool:

    but look for israeli goods and boycott them

    mostly fruit and veg in big shops

    but also large plastic garden lockers and playhouses in homebase

    i have had enough of these lethal nazi bullies:mad:

    another bloody sunday folks

    lets attack their export market..

    i have as much connection to gaza residents as bosco has

    For people who are going to do this, please, do this at the tills!
    Bring it to the attention of the cashier, as many managers are just appeasing people with "yeah, yeah, we'll take it off the shelves because you're boycotting Israeli produce...:rolleyes:"

    The idea with the cashiers is that hopefully, when they have 2-3/5-6/whatever amount of items at their tills at the end of their shift that need to go back out onto the shelves & a supervisor/manager asks why, they will have to say X amount of customers aren't buying Israeli products.

    Just a thought....


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    #110
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    May be up to 19 people killed now (Sky News)

    ... sorry I'm not quoting more sources.


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    #111
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    iguana wrote: »
    States don't have to endorse aid/campaigning organisations/charities. They are usually non-governmental, it's what NGO stands for. You actually don't have a clue about what you are on about do you?....

    Er, yes I do. International recognition (which does apply to NGO's by the way) is usually helpful when it comes to say operating in a militarised area, it helps to give groups legitimacy and a degree of international protection.


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    #112
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    As for "aid workers", was this a sanctioned operation under a recognised international aid organisation or was it a private enterprise?

    OOooooh scare quotes around "aid workers".

    The real question is whether it was in international waters, or not. If so the Israelis were pirates. Armed pirates. Pirates with a job back home in the IDF, but pirates nevertheless.

    Arguing, if that is the case, that the victims were "responsible" for defending themselves with knifes, or sticks, or by trying to disarm the invaidng pirates would set a unique legal precedent where pirates can storm ships, but the victims are guilty of aggression if they were armed. If having sticks, a knife etc. is armed.

    Of course it is also, besides being piracy, a potential Act of War. This is an attack on a NATO member by a rogue State which has attacked NATO members before. It has attacked America, for instance.
    NATO should declare war.


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    #113
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    iguana wrote: »
    Lots over the years. And there is one organised for this evening.
    Where can I find information about this? Can dedicated threads be made on boards.ie and several other forums publicizing it? (if there's a website or something, it would be a good idea to send in an email to the Irish Times and RTE too, and other newspapers etc., to try and maximize publicity)


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    #114
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    militarised area

    INTERNATIONAL WATERS....


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    #115
    Pauleta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,778 ✭✭✭Pauleta


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    We don't know yet if that really happened.

    The people that were on the ships have already posted videos where you can cleary see them trying to wrestle the guns off them and they were hitting them with metal bars. These are the videos that the people on the boat posted not Israeli ones.


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    #116
    moonpurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭moonpurple


    itac wrote: »
    For people who are going to do this, please, do this at the tills!
    Bring it to the attention of the cashier, as many managers are just appeasing people with "yeah, yeah, we'll take it off the shelves because you're boycotting Israeli produce...:rolleyes:"

    The idea with the cashiers is that hopefully, when they have 2-3/5-6/whatever amount of items at their tills at the end of their shift that need to go back out onto the shelves & a supervisor/manager asks why, they will have to say X amount of customers aren't buying Israeli products.

    Just a thought....


    you could also carry the produce for a while and maybe put it down while you are looking at the meat or some other area of the shop..and goodness knows you might forget you put it down,
    you would not be breaking any laws..unlike israel
    breaking the laws of common decency


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    #117
    moonpurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭moonpurple


    Pauleta wrote: »
    The people that were on the ships have already posted videos where you can cleary see them trying to wrestle the guns off them and they were hitting them with metal bars. These are the videos that the people on the boat posted not Israeli ones.

    pauleta please dont use my passport next time you smother some fellow to death who is bitter about his farm being taken from his grandad in 1949


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    #118
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    darkman2 wrote: »
    Isreal has nukes, Turkey does'nt. Isreal has an army, Ireland does'nt (thanks largely to the same idiots who love neutrality but hate Isreal). Isreal has cash, Greece does'nt. Isreal is strong, everyone else is weak. What is going to happen? - sweet fcuk all.

    All these countries including Ireland are all mouth but don't have anything to back it up with.

    It ain't that hard to have all of the above when the US is pumping a 2 or 3 billion dollars in aid into your economy every year


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    #119
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Pittens wrote: »
    INTERNATIONAL WATERS....

    Israel is a non-signatory to the UN Convention on Law of the Sea, and the protective principle will be invoked. The protective principle which allows states, amongst other things, board ships intent on entering their waters to break the law/threaten state security etc.


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    #120
    moonpurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭moonpurple


    hitting their export market hurt other racists in south africa (big military allies of tel aviv during apartheid)


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    #121
    Bob the Seducer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭Bob the Seducer


    Pauleta wrote: »
    The moment they they tried to take the Israeli's guns from them they were no longer aid workers they became combatants.

    And the moment Israeli commandos boarded a ship in international waters they became criminals.

    The International Maritime Bureau definition of piracy:
    the act of boarding any vessel with an intent to commit theft or any other crime, and with an intent or capacity to use force in furtherance of that act

    Once they boarded a ship in international waters with the intention of forcing it to dock in Israel, it became no different to hijacking an American plane and forcing it to fly to Cuba


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