Aid Floatillas Attacked

B0jangles

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

Don't forget a couple of knives & box cutters enabled the hijackers of the 9/11 planes to murder over 3000 innocent people.

But in that scenario the IDF commandos are like the civilian aeroplane passengers and the aid workers are like the highly trained hijackers?

Waaait a minute, something doesn't quite ring true here...

EuskalHerria

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

Don't forget a couple of knives & box cutters enabled the hijackers of the 9/11 planes to murder over 3000 innocent people.

Jesus christ, seriously what is the point of that post? Are you comparing terrorists that pre determined a violent action with that of human rights activists that had witnessed there fellow volunteers being murdered?

Or was it you think they were about to turn the flotilla around and fly it into large israeli buildings?

Seriously the intelligence of the human race just dropped with that post

deisedevil

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

Don't forget a couple of knives & box cutters enabled the hijackers of the 9/11 planes to murder over 3000 innocent people.

Ya. Imagine what Hamas could have done with some extra kitchen knives and box cutters. Israel were lucky they killed these so called peace activists otherwise their people would come under heavy attack from professors, holocaust survivors, politicians, UN amabassadors, nobel peace prize winners all launching attacks with their box cutters and knives with Hamas by their side.

Believe in the Israeli propaganda bull much?

B0jangles

deisedevil wrote: »

Ya. Imagine what Hamas could have done with some extra kitchen knives and box cutters. Israel were lucky they killed these so called peace activists otherwise their people would come under heavy attack from professors, holocaust survivors, politicians, UN amabassadors, nobel peace prize winners all launching attacks with their box cutters and knives with Hamas by their side.

Believe in the Israeli propaganda bull much?

But they also had WHEELCHAIRS

the IDF commandos might have also had their toes lightly squashed

THE HORROR

JONJO THE MISER

Just on the news now, Brian Cowen says if any harm come's to our 5 Irish citiens it will have the most serious consequence, its not often i agree with Brian Cowen but well done to him and its high time that all Israeli scum are expelled from our country.

Run_to_da_hills

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

Don't forget a couple of knives & box cutters enabled the hijackers of the 9/11 planes to murder over 3000 innocent people.

So were led to believe. :rolleyes:

strobe

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

Don't forget a couple of knives & box cutters enabled the hijackers of the 9/11 planes to murder over 3000 innocent people.

Come now Mak, you're not suggesting the flotilla's plan was to allow Hamas to overcome the IDF and hijack Israel by smuggling sticks and kitchen knives to their fighters are you? Situation not comparable maybe?

B0jangles

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Or was it you think they were about to turn the flotilla around and fly it into large israeli buildings?

post

They did have a catapult...:pac:

Archie D Bunker

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Jesus christ, seriously what is the point of that post? Are you comparing terrorists that pre determined a violent action with that of human rights activists that had witnessed there fellow volunteers being murdered?

Or was it you think they were about to turn the flotilla around and fly it into large israeli buildings?

Seriously the intelligence of the human race just dropped with that post

The intelligence of the human race is dropping, that's a fact.
For example, believing that people who prepare in advance stocks of knives, steel pipes and other assortment of weaponry are peace activists and aid workers...

deisedevil

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

The intelligence of the human race is dropping, that's a fact.
For example, believing that people who prepare in advance stocks of knives, steel pipes and other assortment of weaponry are peace activists and aid workers...

Ya see people are finally getting smarter and not just believing the bull they are fed anymore. Some of us anyways. :rolleyes:

B0jangles

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

The intelligence of the human race is dropping, that's a fact.
For example, believing that people who prepare in advance stocks of knives, steel pipes and other assortment of weaponry are peace activists and aid workers...

Well they would have to be remarkably stupid people to think they could plan in advance to defeat IDF commandos with what looks to be about 30 kitchen knifes, some sticks, 2 bottles of stones and a catapult distributed among 700 people.

So either they planned ahead, were amazingly incompetent and had pathetic supplies, OR realised they were being shot at and grabbed whatever they could at short notice.

Occam's Razor.

Ardent

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Jesus christ, seriously what is the point of that post? Are you comparing terrorists that pre determined a violent action with that of human rights activists that had witnessed there fellow volunteers being murdered?

Or was it you think they were about to turn the flotilla around and fly it into large israeli buildings?

Seriously the intelligence of the human race just dropped with that post

Not at all. They may seem like trivial weapons to you but hink about it in real terms:

You're getting the crap beat out of you by a couple of fanatics with metal bars and knives. You look over and see your comrade on the deck with 5 guys laying into him with metal bars and who knows what else.....

You don't think you'd be reaching for your pistol, tough guy?

deisedevil

Ardent wrote: »

Not at all. They may seem like trivial weapons to you but hink about it in real terms:

You're getting the crap beat out of you by a couple of fanatics with metal bars and knives. You look over and see your comrade on the deck with 5 guys laying into him with metal bars and who knows what else.....

You don't think you'd be reaching for your pistol, tough guy?

Of course the soldiers were going to open fire. They should never have been there though. It's not their fault their government sent them on an illegal mission.

Archie D Bunker

B0jangles wrote: »

Well they would have to be remarkably stupid people to think they could plan in advance to defeat IDF commandos with what looks to be about 30 kitchen knifes, some sticks, 2 bottles of stones and a catapult distributed among 700 people.

So either they planned ahead, were amazingly incompetent and had pathetic supplies, OR realised they were being shot at and grabbed whatever they could at short notice.

Occam's Razor.

The most reasonable explanation would be that among the 700 aid workers and peace activists on board the ship, there were also several dozens who were there for one reason only - to cause as much trouble as possible, and they came prepared.

ejmaztec

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

The most reasonable explanation would be that among the 700 aid workers and peace activists on board the ship, there were also several dozens who were there for one reason only - to cause as much trouble as possible, and they came prepared.

They were probably plumbers, or Boy Scouts..

B0jangles

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

The most reasonable explanation would be that among the 700 aid workers and peace activists on board the ship, there were also several dozens who were there for one reason only - to cause as much trouble as possible, and they came prepared.

Exactly.






Hang on, I'm talking about the IDF commandos - who are you talking about?

arybvtcw0eolkf

strobe wrote: »

Come now Mak, you're not suggesting the flotilla's plan was to allow Hamas to overcome the IDF and hijack Israel by smuggling sticks and kitchen knives to their fighters are you? Situation not comparable maybe?

Not in the least.

But people are down playing how dangerous the attack on the IDF personnel was.

As for the Israeli's firing on the ships first, big deal. Completely in keeping with S.O.P.'s in any army to fire warning shots after verbal warnings.

The problems with these types of discussions is we get the usual lunatics running screaming in hysterics about the big bad Israeli's, completely blinded by hatred. And with a complete lack of understanding of conflict.

Lets me clear about something, from a laymans POV boarding the ship in international waters may have been an illegal act. But thats where the laymans point of view ends!.

Once onboard and under attack those IDF personnel had an obligation to protect themselves, their comrades from bodily harm and to protect themselves from being forcibly disarmed - it goes the same way for any soldier, regardless what flag he/she serves under.

Elenxor

How many Soldiers did they kill?

IrishTonyO

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

Not in the least.

But people are down playing how dangerous the attack on the IDF personnel was.

As for the Israeli's firing on the ships first, big deal. Completely in keeping with S.O.P.'s in any army to fire warning shots after verbal warnings.

The problems with these types of discussions is we get the usual lunatics running screaming in hysterics about the big bad Israeli's, completely blinded by hatred. And with a complete lack of understanding of conflict.

Lets me clear about something, from a laymans POV boarding the ship in international waters may have been an illegal act. But thats where the laymans point of view ends!.

Once onboard and under attack those IDF personnel had an obligation to protect themselves, their comrades from bodily harm and to protect themselves from being forcibly disarmed - it goes the same way for any soldier, regardless what flag he/she serves under.

when soldiers act illegally they have no rights

Archie D Bunker

IrishTonyO wrote: »

when soldiers act illegally they have no rights

Thing is - they did act legally (San Remo)

B0jangles

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

Not in the least.

we get the usual lunatics running screaming in hysterics about the big bad Israeli's, completely blinded by hatred. And with a complete lack of understanding of conflict..

I object strongly to this.

I have posted many times in support of the flotilla in this thread and I challenge you to find a single post of mine which expresses "blind hatred" or "screaming hysterics" against the Israeli people. I sympathize very much with the terrible position they were put into but I can still criticize Israel's way of addressing any opposition to its actions.

Ardent

This discussion is becoming a major drag. There's no talking sense to some people, with their damned prejudices. This debate keeps going around in circles and the goalposts keep moving, to suit the agenda of some.

I'm taking a break, peace out.

El Horseboxo

You are all just beating a dead horse by trying to argue who was at fault here. The Israeli defenders don't want to listen.

Bottom line is Israel invaded a ship in International waters illegally and activists either attacked them straight away if you believe the Israeli side or the activists responded in self defense if you believe the activists side. In either scanerio the activists had every right to defend their ship from an invader.

The videos Israel have release prove nothing. They show only from a certain point and show nothing that precedes it.

ScumLord

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

Lets me clear about something, from a laymans POV boarding the ship in international waters may have been an illegal act. But thats where the laymans point of view ends!.

Not really, laymen are the average citizen of the world, what makes the military so right? Just because they have guns doesn't mean their automatic right and justified in what they're doing just because it makes sense to them.

eamo12

You guys just don't get it. If they wanted to get the aid (not that the palis need aid given the massive amount of funds given to that terrorist sh1thole from europe and the US), they could have taken the Israeli offer to dock at Haifa and then transported.

But no, this band of so-called 'peace protesters' choose to confront the Israelis and tried to kill the soldiers landing on the ship. I have no sympathy whatsoever for this sort of recklessness - they got what they wanted and deserved.

Dar

Dar wrote: »

Israel cannot impose a blockade and then selectively decide which ships it is doing to stop. Each of these convoys has been publicized - they are in essence a publicity stunt by pro-Palestinian groups. They cannot be considered smugglers.

Israel knew of the previous convoys and did not stop them, despite having the power to do so. Therefore the blockade is not effective. They cannot impose a blockade, fail to enforce it and then decide that due to more recent political developments that they "really mean it now".

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

Thing is - they did act legally (San Remo)

Care to respond?

B0jangles

eamo12 wrote: »

You guys just don't get it. If they wanted to get the aid (not that the palis need aid given the massive amount of funds given to that terrorist sh1thole from europe and the US), they could have taken the Israeli offer to dock at Haifa and then transported.

But no, this band of so-called 'peace protesters' choose to confront the Israelis and tried to kill the soldiers landing on the ship. I have no sympathy whatsoever for this sort of recklessness - they got what they wanted and deserved.

NO THEY COULDN'T

a large proportion of the aid was in the form of concrete, for rebuilding bulldozed houses.

Israel does not allow concrete into the Gaza Strip.

deisedevil

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

The most reasonable explanation would be that among the 700 aid workers and peace activists on board the ship, there were also several dozens who were there for one reason only - to cause as much trouble as possible, and they came prepared.

I wouldn't for one minute try and suggest that every one of the 700 passengers were peace loving and would never raise a hand to anyone. But do you seriously think that even the craziest activist on there thought they were going to have the slightest of hope with a few knives and scaffolding poles and plastic chairs against the might of the IDF with their gun boats, ships, autmoatic weapons and highly trained soldiers. They never thought the Israelis would do what they did, they thought they would be left through. So I wouldn't agree that they went out there hoping the Israelis would attack them and they would attack back. Just too much to believe and coming from the Israeli government who have told countless lies and broken countless agreements and treaties and have done pretty much whatever the like.

strobe

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

Once onboard and under attack those IDF personnel had an obligation to protect themselves, their comrades from bodily harm and to protect themselves from being forcibly disarmed - it goes the same way for any soldier, regardless what flag he/she serves under.

I'd go farther than that. It is reasonable for any human being to defend themselves or their friends when under attack, it is not a preserve of soldiers, of people serving under a flag. I haven't seen anyone claim that the soldiers should have stood by and watch their freinds get stabbed to death. Pretty much everybody agrees that if you are holding a rifle and people are beating your buddy with iron bars you drop them. I don't know why people keep bringing that up. It is the one point there is no contention on. It's strange, is what it is. Perhaps because it is the only point of the entire debacle from start to finish that there is a possible point to side with Israel and the IDF on.

Dyr

So two days on and the Israelis haven't even released a body count yet, let alone identify the dead. Scumbaggery of the highest order and their apologists are now little more than scumbag fellow travellers in my eyes.