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Aid Floatillas Attacked

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    #1412
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I wish these people would stop calling it piracy. It wasnt piracy. An act of war technically speaking.

    It's piracy, wether you like it or not... wether you agree or not, that's what it is.


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    #1413
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Degsy wrote: »
    Here's a nice vid of the attitudes some isreali people have to everybody else.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2RHz6Zn2eU

    I know that's just one stupid drunk kid out of millions but the sad thing is this is the kind of aggressive and arrogant attitude and personality a lot of Israeli youths seem to have. Anyone that's met up with them while doing the whole back packer thing in Australasia or South America seem to confim that. It was certainly my experience with the majority of Israelis I met while traveling. It's unfortunate, and I'd love to know where the attitude stems from. Is it a result of the ultra-nationalism the government seems obsessed with instilling into the population or something. I'd love to know what kind of "civic education", meant in the most creepy and Orwelian sense of the phrase, the kids are given in school to have this kind of effect on them. It's pretty depressing.


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    #1414
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Edwin Calm Wife wrote: »
    It's piracy, wether you like it or not... wether you agree or not, that's what it is.

    It's not technically piracy if the people doing the piracy are members of the armed forces of a sovereign nation and are displaying insignia.


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    #1415
    Carlos_Ray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Carlos_Ray


    bambooze wrote: »
    So, an american who appears to be an expert in the field is somehow not credible in your world?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Kohlmann

    And the french intelligence report? Not credible?

    And the turkish authorities raiding IHH? Not credible?

    Basically any evidence, no matter from where, that might possibly ruin your rose tinted view of the middle east is not credible. Glad we've cleared that up.


    Firstly you only gave two links and I have addressed both. You gave no direct link to either a French or Turkish intelligence report.

    Secondly in relation to Kohlmann, he is part of the dubious selection of people tasked with "finding evidence" against "America's enemies" in a similar fashion to the "experts" tasked with finding wmds in Iraq and connecting Saddam Huessein with 911. He has helped imprison innocent people in Guantanamo. His "evidence" is really only accepted by American military courts and of course the Israelis.

    As for sources, American and Israeli sources are not credible on this issue. Likewise sources from Iran or Syria are not. I have worked in Israel and I have formed my opinions based on what I have seen and experienced. I have also made my judgements on humaitarian reports, UN reports, and of course the International Court of Justice.

    Furthermore, Israels refusal to allow media freedom coupled with its refusal to allow independent investigations into events such as these speaks volumes.

    To give you an insight into Israeli mentality. I was returning to Ireland after spending some time near a settlement in Hebron. I had pictures on my camera of graffiti on Palestinian girls school that said "GAS ALL ARABS" and another picture of a grown settler man spitting in the face of an elderly frail Palestinian women (a soldier on a rooftop laughed at this). The airport security checked my camera, forced me to delete the pictures (along with others) and threatened me to mind my own business, and made my ordeal quite difficult and uncomfortable. The Israeli state is manifested and survives purely on carefully manufactured propaganda.


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    #1416
    Drake66
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Drake66


    strobe wrote: »
    It's not technically piracy if the people doing the piracy are members of the armed forces of a sovereign nation and are displaying insignia.

    Piracy, war or just plain murder by some thugs with guns.


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    #1417
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Edwin Calm Wife wrote: »
    It's piracy, wether you like it or not... wether you agree or not, that's what it is.
    *sigh* its not by definition piracy. In any case an act of war is worse.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1418
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Carlos_Ray wrote: »
    Firstly you only gave two links and I have addressed both. You gave no direct link to either a French or Turkish intelligence report.

    Secondly in relation to Kohlmann, he is part of the dubious selection of people tasked with "finding evidence" against "America's enemies" in a similar fashion to the "experts" tasked with finding wmds in Iraq and connecting Saddam Huessein with 911. He has helped imprison innocent people in Guantanamo. His "evidence" is really only accepted by American military courts and of course the Israelis.
    Exactly. Independent source he is not.
    As for sources, American and Israeli sources are not credible on this issue. Likewise sources from Iran or Syria are not.
    Agreed. Why trust one and not the other.
    I have also made my judgements on humaitarian reports, UN reports, and of course the International Court of Justice.
    Ditto.

    To give you an insight into Israeli mentality. I was returning to Ireland after spending some time near a settlement in Hebron. I had pictures on my camera of graffiti on Palestinian girls school that said "GAS ALL ARABS" and another picture of a grown settler man spitting in the face of an elderly frail Palestinian women (a soldier on a rooftop laughed at this). The airport security checked my camera, forced me to delete the pictures (along with others) and threatened me to mind my own business, and made my ordeal quite difficult and uncomfortable. The Israeli state is manifested and survives purely on carefully manufactured propaganda.
    I've personally heard similar many times from all sorts of sources. The most compelling for me was a Jewish woman I knew who went over to live there. Well I know her Irish rellies, she's from London herself. She had her eyes opened. She fully backs the state and notion of Israel, but had serious questions and misgivings about how that state went about its business.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1419
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Standard Toaster wrote: »
    Irish Activist accuses Israel of piracy

    Neither Israel nor Turkey are signed up to UNCLOS.. so I'm not sure it can be applied to this case unless it's forced by the UN, which won't happen.. they've already said that Israel should be the ones to carry out the investigation


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    #1420
    IrishTonyO
    Registered Users Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Neither Israel nor Turkey are signed up to UNCLOS.. so I'm not sure it can be applied to this case unless it's forced by the UN, which won't happen.. they've already said that Israel should be the ones to carry out the investigation

    All members of the UN wanted an independent enquiry except the US who veteod this and got the statement changed to one done by Isarel itself.


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    #1421
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    6mm0d.th.png


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    #1422
    joesoap007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭joesoap007


    Edwin Calm Wife wrote: »
    It's piracy, wether you like it or not... wether you agree or not, that's what it is.


    It is not piracy, as the Israeli vessels carried a military commission. It is rather an act of illegal warfare on turkey,The Law of the Sea is quite plain that, when an incident takes place on a ship on the high seas (outside anybody's territorial waters) the applicable law is that of the flag state of the ship on which the incident occurred. In legal terms, the Turkish ship was Turkish territory?? is this right?if they act in the same with the rachel corrie is it an act of war against us.the boat is irish


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    #1423
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,072 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    All members of the UN wanted an independent enquiry except the US who veteod this and got the statement changed to one done by Isarel itself.

    Another crazy use of the US veto.

    I think I know what the outcome would have been, had Pol Pot been given the go ahead to investigate the actions of his own Khmer Rouge, thanks to a veto from one of the UNSC members.


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    #1424
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    strobe wrote: »
    I know that's just one stupid drunk kid out of millions but the sad thing is this is the kind of aggressive and arrogant attitude and personality a lot of Israeli youths seem to have. It's pretty depressing.

    What it must be like to be palestinian living amongst them..


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    #1425
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    Another crazy use of the US veto.

    I think I know what the outcome would have been, had Pol Pot been given the go ahead to investigate the actions of his own Khmer Rouge, thanks to a veto from one of the UNSC members.

    I really wish they'd get rid of those damn veto's. The UN's hands are always tied by the UNSC members with their vetoes.


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    #1426
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Ahh yes - "settlers" - the less publicised bearded weirdies of the middle east.


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    #1427
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Degsy wrote: »
    What it must be like to be palestinian living amongst them..

    If them palestinians don't like it they can go back to where they came from..hmmm....:confused:


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    #1428
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Degsy wrote: »
    What it must be like to be palestinian living amongst them..

    Man, that video is horrible.


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    #1429
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Degsy wrote: »
    What it must be like to be palestinian living amongst them..

    Filthy little scumbags!


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    #1430
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    strobe wrote: »
    Filthy little scumbags!

    It wasn't just that though, the soldiers weren't helpful at all, and the woman at the end was just shocking.

    I really feel for the Palestinians, I'm sure that most of them given the chance would just opt to leave but no one will help them and they are stuck in what must seem like one of teh circles of Dante's inferno.


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    #1431
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    karma_ wrote: »
    Man, that video is horrible.

    O thats nothing
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7451691.stm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8yKFKao0sI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mO8CWSam2o&feature=related

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=897_1258569027

    More beatings and humiliation by police here
    http://news.walla.co.il/?w=//1330308


    Whats interesting is that this lot
    http://www.yesh-din.org/site/index.php?page=about.us&lang=en

    have done an in depth study of settler violence as treated by the occupation authorities. It makes for grim reading. There is of course a vast difference in the way Palestinians and settlers are treated....
    http://www.yesh-din.org/sys/images/File/LESVDataSheetJuly2008Eng[1].pdf


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    #1432
    Archie D Bunker
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭Archie D Bunker


    Nodin wrote: »
    O thats nothing
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7451691.stm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8yKFKao0sI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mO8CWSam2o&feature=related

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=897_1258569027

    More beatings and humiliation by police here
    http://news.walla.co.il/?w=//1330308


    Whats interesting is that this lot
    http://www.yesh-din.org/site/index.php?page=about.us&lang=en

    have done an in depth study of settler violence as treated by the occupation authorities. It makes for grim reading. There is of course a vast difference in the way Palestinians and settlers are treated....
    http://www.yesh-din.org/sys/images/File/LESVDataSheetJuly2008Eng[1].pdf

    So, deteriorating the thread, as so many others in the past, into Israel bashing again?


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    #1433
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    strobe wrote: »
    Filthy little scumbags!

    How many live rounds do you reckon they'd receive if they were Palestinian though....I'd say two each, seeing as they haven't learnt to keep their heads down.

    In Gaza, the IDF used enforce curfews by sniper, so if you wanted to go next door, you were stuck. As they'd turn off the water, and it could go on for up to a week, people might be forced to dash over if somebody had some spare supplies. As a result of this rather nerve racking business, they eventually developed trenches from house to house. There, thats another thing you can chalk up to the 'only liberal democracy in the middle east'.


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    #1434
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Archie D Bunker wrote: »
    So, deteriorating the thread, as so many others in the past, into Israel bashing again?

    Well, If Israel would stop bashing, I'd have a few less things to link in that post.

    You've 39 posts, all of them defending Israel. Without a bit of "Israel bashing" I doubt you'd have anything to say. However, I'm merely passing on information, some of it from very reliable and informative organisations.


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    #1435
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Archie D Bunker wrote: »
    So, deteriorating the thread, as so many others in the past, into Israel bashing again?

    "Evidence goes straight towards the character and patern of behaviour of the accused your Honour."

    "Objection overruled."

    *Loud Gavel Bang*


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    #1436
    Archie D Bunker
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭Archie D Bunker


    Nodin wrote: »
    Well, If Israel would stop bashing, I'd have a few less things to link in that post.

    You've 39 posts, all of them defending Israel. Without a bit of "Israel bashing" I doubt you'd have anything to say. However, I'm merely passing on information, some of it from very reliable and informative organisations.


    And the next step when all else fails, is bashing the posters...


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    #1437
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Archie D Bunker wrote: »
    And the next step when all else fails, is bashing the posters...

    Steady on now, I'm not some IDF bruiser manning a checkpoint....


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    #1438
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    strobe wrote: »
    Filthy little scumbags!


    And all this racial and sectarian abuse goes on witth the complicty of the israeli authorities and government...a soldier jeering away a few feet from the womans house.
    If this was any other country bar Isreal the UN would be calling for armed intervention in defense of the palestinians.


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    #1439
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    You know what this reminds me of? Whataboutery...... the very thing that some of the posters here love to scream when attacks on Israelis are mentioned. Pathetic.


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    #1440
    Archie D Bunker
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭Archie D Bunker


    Degsy wrote: »
    And all this racial and sectarian abuse goes on witth the complicty of the israeli authorities and government...a soldier jeering away a few feet from the womans house.
    If this was any other country bar Isreal the UN would be calling for armed intervention in defense of the palestinians.


    Actually, the same and worse happens all the time in countries such as China, Syria, Iran, Thailand, etc.
    Try finding any type of serious discussion here on boards that relates to human rights abuse in these countries...
    You also won't find too many UN resolutions that address human rights issues in these countries...


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    #1441
    lisbon_lions
    Registered Users Posts: 517 ✭✭✭lisbon_lions


    What about our citizens been detained against their will - for nothing other than sailing the open seas? What about the forgery of Irish passports to aid and abet an assassination? What are our government doing to defend her citizens and her good name in foreign travel? When are those in Lenister house going to do the right thing and kick Israeli ambassador out of Ireland?

    I know there are matters of 'diplomatic protocols' for such a step, but Israel have crossed that line a long time ago and now such a move is warranted imo!


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