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Aid Floatillas Attacked

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    #122
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    skelliser wrote: »
    On Pat Kenny just now the Rachel Corrie was a good distance behind the fleet and was not involved in this mornings incident. They are deciding whether to return to cyprus or continue on.
    Everyone on board is comfirmed as safe and well.

    This is an act of piracy, pure and simple. The ships where in international waters. Up to 16 people have been murdered today.

    I do not want to be the bearer of bad news. Most of the Irish were on the Rachel Corrie but there was 3 Irish at least on board the ship that was attacked.


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    #123
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Pauleta wrote: »
    The people that were on the ships have already posted videos where you can cleary see them trying to wrestle the guns off them and they were hitting them with metal bars. These are the videos that the people on the boat posted not Israeli ones.

    Where? Please give us links. I've seen some videos and all I can see is armed soldiers coming down ropes [which most likely were from helicopters]. Then I see a load of people in orange life-jackets on the ground.


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    #124
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    FishFood wrote: »
    Israel had no right to board the ships, activists/aid workers had every right to defend their ships and themselves. Simple as. If they had boarded the ships in their own territorial waters then they would have some excuse, but they didn't, so they don't.

    They do. Ouch.


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    #125
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    iguana wrote: »
    Yeah imagine having a boarding party land on your property from helicopters aiming guns at you and threatening you in a part of the world where no army has jurisdiction and having the audacity to try and protect yourself? I mean when soldiers come on your property somewhere they have no right to be they are either rogue or committing an act of war.

    But I guess by your reckoning people should just accept that? So when Germany invaded Poland in 1939 everyone should just have gone along with them? Or maybe just because one group has more firepower it doesn't give them the right to do what they like?
    Blockades are typically all illegal. In theory, the US committed an act of war against Cuba and the Soviet Union when it blockaded Cuba to keep weapons off the island.

    Israel wants to keep weapons out of Gaza that can and are used against Israel.

    As for the people on the boat, when armed soldiers board, you put your hands up and go into port, where the worlds media will wait to see the 'disgrace' of Israel arresting these peaceful protestors.

    Instead, they chose to make a fight of it.


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    #126
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Nijmegen wrote: »

    Instead, they chose to make a fight of it.

    you were there huh?


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    #127
    henryporter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭henryporter


    This all coming not so long after the use of Irish, British and American passports for the purpose of the summary execution of a Hamas Commander in Dubai. When is the world going to say enough to these out of control paranoid lunatics. The simple fact is that no western government will cross the line and send aid to what is effectively a massive prison, so these individuals took it upon themselves to do so. Israel, masters of spin and deception, boarded a vessel in international waters, killed civilians, prevented all communications in and out of the area other than their own and concocted a fantasy about an attack on the Israeli State by a group aligned with Hamas etc. and as usual appear to be getting away with this. So easy too - anyone against the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands is branded anti-semitic and somehow if you're for the right of the Palestinian people to return to their own country (as in Arcticle 13 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights), then you somehow condone the atrocities of WWII. How did human beings end up so far up their own a*ses??


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    #128
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    Instead, they chose to make a fight of it.

    Not to mention that Israel had offered to hand the aid over to the UN and have it transferred overland to Gaza. Apparently getting aid to Gaza is secondary to getting themselves into Gaza.


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    #129
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    TURKEY HAS WITHDRAWN ITS AMBASSADOR FROM ISRAEL

    -- Sky News.


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    #130
    iguana
    Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    Instead, they chose to make a fight of it.

    1) There is no evidence whatsoever that happened.

    2) They were entitled to defend themselves as the soldiers had no jurisdiction, no rights to be on the ship and were breaking the law.

    3) Nobody has a clue what they would do in a situation where a criminal points a gun at them.


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    #131
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    Nijmegen wrote: »

    Israel wants to keep weapons out of Gaza that can and are used against Israel.

    I remember the rte report about the rachel corrie being loaded with aid in an irish port, i didnt see crates of ak's and amunnition, i saw clothes, food, wheelchairs and x-ray machines.

    btw there was a holocaust survivor and MPs from european states on board these ships.


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    #132
    moonpurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭moonpurple


    it is time to give israel the medicine that cured south africa
    boycott their goods


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    #133
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    prinz wrote: »
    Not to mention that Israel had offered to hand the aid over to the UN and have it transferred overland to Gaza. Apparently getting aid to Gaza is secondary to getting themselves into Gaza.

    Nothing like starting the day legitimising an act of murder and piracy in international waters.

    your work is done for today prinz.


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    #134
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    Instead, they chose to make a fight of it.

    That's blaming the victims. A boarded ship has a right to make a "fight of it" if it feels it is being boarded illegally.

    EDIT:

    and even then, the "fight" is not certain, some reports say the IDF boarded with guns blazing.


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    #135
    iguana
    Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    prinz wrote: »
    Not to mention that Israel had offered to hand the aid over to the UN and have it transferred overland to Gaza. Apparently getting aid to Gaza is secondary to getting themselves into Gaza.

    Aid has been sent in this way before and never reaches Gaza. The Israelis don't let it through, they just confiscate it.


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    #136
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    iguana wrote: »
    1) There is no evidence whatsoever that happened.

    2) They were entitled to defend themselves as the soldiers had no jurisdiction, no rights to be on the ship and were breaking the law.

    3) Nobody has a clue what they would do in a situation where a criminal points a gun at them.
    They were warned not to run the blockade. They chose to do so, even when other avenues existed to deliver to aid to Gaza. They wanted to make a PR show of Israel.

    They were entitled to do what they liked, but never bring a 2x4 to a gun fight.


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    #137
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Pittens wrote: »
    That's blaming the victims. A boarded ship has a right to make a "fight of it" if it feels it is being boarded illegally.

    Unfortunately boards has become infested with right wing nutjobs, we can argue as much as we can and show all the evidence under the sun, all will just be sidestepped.


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    #138
    Local-womanizer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Local-womanizer


    Yes if people tried to wrestle the weapons of the soldiers they are allowed to react in a manner to make sure that does not happen.....

    But,we dont know if that happened but we do know that the IDF should not have been on that boat.

    Why they couldent have stopped,boarded and searched the boats in a calm manner to search for contraband I dont know.

    Tis handy that the only radio traffic out of the area is the IDFs aswell.


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    #139
    zimovain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 708 ✭✭✭zimovain


    Great footage on Al Jazerra now.


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    #140
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Can we keep this on the topic of the boarding of the aid ship(s) and not so much "kill Israeli produce/Jews are racists".
    Thread has been doing good so far, please keep it on topic.


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    #141
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    karma_ wrote: »
    Nothing like starting the day legitimising an act of murder and piracy in international waters..

    Are you going to deny the legal principle? Something about side stepping evidence?


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    #142
    Local-womanizer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Local-womanizer


    Also,the Guardian are doing good coverage of the event with some good videos and pictures as well as different sources.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2010/may/31/israel-troops-gaza-ships


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    #143
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    karma_ wrote: »
    Unfortunately boards has become infested with right wing nutjobs, we can argue as much as we can and show all the evidence under the sun, all will just be sidestepped.
    What about Israel's right to defend itself, by blockading Gaza to prevent weapons from entering it, to the hands of a group that has the stated aim of wiping out Israel at best, and the capability to randomly drop rockets on the homes of innocent civilians?


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    #144
    iguana
    Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    They were warned not to run the blockade. They chose to do so, even when other avenues existed to deliver to aid to Gaza. They wanted to make a PR show of Israel.

    They were entitled to do what they liked, but never bring a 2x4 to a gun fight.

    They did not run the blockade. They were attacked illegally in international water. Seriously are you just choosing to ignore the facts and making up your own story to fit your agenda?


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    #145
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Laughable in the extreme

    Attempting to disarm military personnel, normaly ends bad ;), this is how they are trained, and it doesn't matter who it is that's trying to disarm them. If a soldier is being disarmed, they are advised to stop this from happening, this may result in the culprit getting shot.


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    #146
    Fizman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,605 ✭✭✭Fizman


    Posted this in the Politics thread too.....
    Originally Posted by galwaybabe
    If you do one thing today, make it a boycott of Israeli goods. Remember, it was international pressure of the hitting the pocket variety that helped bring down aparteid in SA. Tell the store managers where you shop that you will boycott their stores until they remove Israeli goods.

    Out of interest, what popular products sold in this country would originate from Israel? I'm sure there are plenty, but people may just be unaware. Maybe even form a list??


    Just read this on reuters.....
    Quote:
    Israeli officials said the marines were met with gunfire and knives when they boarded the ships, which included a large ferry flying the Turkish flag. Activists seized at least two pistols from the boarding party, the officials said.

    Ya so Mary the innocent aid worker disarmed an Israeli commando and turned the gun on him. Very interested to see Americas response to this whole thing.


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    #147
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    What about Israel's right to defend itself, by blockading Gaza to prevent weapons from entering it, to the hands of a group that has the stated aim of wiping out Israel at best, and the capability to randomly drop rockets on the homes of innocent civilians?

    While we're throwing get out jail for free cards around: what about the HOLOCAUST!1!!


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    #148
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    iguana wrote: »
    They did not run the blockade. They were attacked illegally in international water. Seriously are you just choosing to ignore the facts and making up your own story to fit your agenda?
    No, I am not.

    The blockade extends into international waters. There is precident for doing this. Look at Cuba.

    A blockade is legitimate if, as in this case, its purpose is to stop the transit of weapons to a group destined to use them to try and kill civilians.


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    #149
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Bambi wrote: »
    While we're throwing get out jail for free cards around: what about the HOLOCAUST!1!!
    I'm not using it as a get out of jail free card.

    If you want to understand the Israeli, you need to understand all the things in his head that make him tick.

    Same for the arab.

    Understand them, and you might make a peace.


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    #150
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    iguana wrote: »
    They did not run the blockade. They were attacked illegally in international water. Seriously are you just choosing to ignore the facts and making up your own story to fit your agenda?

    Please show how they acted illegally and what law they broke?


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    #151
    iguana
    Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Fizman wrote: »
    Out of interest, what popular products sold in this country would originate from Israel? I'm sure there are plenty, but people may just be unaware. Maybe even form a list??

    Mainly fruit and veg, especially stuff that's out of season here.


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