Aid Floatillas Attacked

biko

Winty wrote: »

I think it would be a good idea to finish this thread on the words of Wibbs

Unfortunately the incident isn't over yet and another would start asap.
We'll stick with this for now.


You'd think that for a government that has almost perfect the art of secret warfare "Mossad" the Israelis really mess it up on occasion.
Of course they don't answer to anyone but their own population, and the US.
Will Turkey declare war over their ship being attacked and their citizens killed by Israeli soldiers on international waters?
Turkey is Israel's only "Arab" friend and now they've burned them too.

Edit: Turkey is not strictly Arab, but have a strong Islam tradition.

nice1franko

When's that straggler Irish ship due at Gaza? I can't see them letting it through but I'm guessing they'll handle this one a little more delicately at least

doncarlos

nice1franko wrote: »

When's that straggler Irish ship due at Gazza? I can't see them letting it through but I'm guessing they'll handle this one a little more delicately at least

The only reason it was late is because they had to paint over the giant tricolour on the side as it's a Malaysian registered boat.

bambooze

biko wrote: »

Unfortunately the incident isn't over yet and another would start asap.
We'll stick with this for now.


You'd think that for a government that has almost perfect the art of secret warfare "Mossad" the Israelis really mess it up on occasion.
Of course they don't answer to anyone but their own population, and the US.
Will Turkey declare war over their ship being attacked and their citizens killed by Israeli soldiers on international waters?
Turkey is Israel's only "Arab" friend and now they've burned them too.

Edit: Turkey is not strictly Arab, but have a strong Islam tradition.

Relations with turkey have been unraveling for quite a while now.. the islamist erdogan administration is not overly fond of their relations with israel.

On the other hand most of the deals are military (they buy israeli weapons and the IAF trains there - or used to) but the military in turkey is the defender of secularism which creates an interesting situation. Erdogan meanwhile has been 'taking out' the top military brass with claims of planning a coup..

So how far will things go? Will the army in turkey eventually decide they'd rather ditch erdogan than go to war with israel? Probably unlikely, but coups are not unheard of there.

nice1franko

doncarlos wrote: »

The only reason it was late is because they had to paint over the giant tricolour on the side as it's a Malaysian registered boat.

Aye, I read in some article that were caught up by some bureaucracy thing...

Anyone know when it's due though?

Wibbs

Winty wrote: »

I think it would be a good idea to finish this thread on the words of Wibbs

Thanks for that. Usually I just bore a thread into the ground.

bambooze wrote: »

Relations with turkey have been unraveling for quite a while now.. the islamist erdogan administration is not overly fond of their relations with israel.

On the other hand most of the deals are military (they buy israeli weapons and the IAF trains there - or used to) but the military in turkey is the defender of secularism which creates an interesting situation. Erdogan meanwhile has been 'taking out' the top military brass with claims of planning a coup..

So how far will things go? Will the army in turkey eventually decide they'd rather ditch erdogan than go to war with israel? Probably unlikely, but coups are not unheard of there.

You just cant let it go can you, nor see any other angle but your own. It is often useful to observe the blinkered view in action, but it does get to a point where it feels one is dealing with a human laser printer mechanically spewing out the received viewpoint until the paper runs out. I include people who hold the opposing view BTW.

Its the best analogy I can dream up of the entire conflict. Two opposed printers spewing out the same document, while the majority just get drowned in paper. Somebody needs to hit cancel.

syklops

Id like to know when it is due as well.

Shame we didnt send one of our Naval ships to go with her. Israel might have no qualms boarding a defenceless aid ship, but they might think twice about boarding or firing upon a Naval ship belonging to a neutral country in International Waters. That is one page three of "How to lose friends and alienate people(International Diplomacy edition).

nice1franko

"The Rachel Corrie, which has five Irish nationals and five Malaysians aboard, is due to arrive in Gazan waters over the coming days, a spokeswoman for the Irish Palestine Solidarity Campaign said. It became separated from the main aid flotilla after being delayed for 48 hours in Malta due to logistical reasons, and is currently off the coast of Libya."

- http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0601/breaking33.html

that was yesterday... presumably if it was delayed 48 hours it'd be due about now

galwaybabe

nice1franko wrote: »

"The Rachel Corrie, which has five Irish nationals and five Malaysians aboard, is due to arrive in Gazan waters over the coming days, a spokeswoman for the Irish Palestine Solidarity Campaign said. It became separated from the main aid flotilla after being delayed for 48 hours in Malta due to logistical reasons, and is currently off the coast of Libya."

- http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0601/breaking33.html

that was yesterday... presumably if it was delayed 48 hours it'd be due about now

Fingers crossed they manage to land at Gaza and do so safely.

My name is URL

syklops wrote: »

Id like to know when it is due as well.

Shame we didnt send one of our Naval ships to go with her. Israel might have no qualms boarding a defenceless aid ship, but they might think twice about boarding or firing upon a Naval ship belonging to a neutral country in International Waters. That is one page three of "How to lose friends and alienate people(International Diplomacy edition).

You can track ships here but for some reason the Rachel Corrie isn't showing up on it

Morlar

galwaybabe wrote: »

Fingers crossed they manage to land at Gaza and do so safely.

They will be intercepted enroute (if nothing mysterious happens to their steering in the meantime - as happened to 2 other boats in the original flotilla).

I just hope for their sakes that they have some intl media onboard and that they have communications which the israelis can't jam because otherwise it could turn into a free for all.

Nodin

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

Actually, the same and worse happens all the time in countries such as China, Syria, Iran, (.......)
You also won't find too many UN resolutions that address human rights issues in these countries...

There isn't the same knowledge of Israeli abuses as there is of those. Palestinian violence is too often reported without context. Theres some context in that post. Perhaps if you addressed it, rather than dedicating your posts to defending the indefensible, you might learn something.

Archie D Bunker wrote: »

The flotilla debate is the first time I've ever commented in boards.ie, even though I've been reading threads for several years now (not just Israeli/Palestinian ones btw). ...

Thats almost a paraphrase of what "Bambooze" said, and they too have only ever posted on one topic.

IT-Guy

Degsy wrote: »

What it must be like to be palestinian living amongst them..

This video stuck with me for a long time after I saw it, I think it's the same woman calling the other woman a whore in the vid you linked to. It's eye-opening to see how she turns from pleasant and thankful to be living where she is to the bare faced hatred and contempt she displays towards her Arab neighbour. All in the presence of an Israeli soldier who seems keen on protecting the settler more than the Arab. Probably gonna get labelled an Anti-Semite for this post but what the hell, it seems clear to me this woman's attitude towards the Arabs living in the area is they are a problem and need to be moved on. Then the neighbourhood will be all Jewish which seems to be her wish for all of Hebron. I know it's only one lady and I hope she's not representative of the settler's attitude towards the existent Arab population but one can't help but wonder, just a local dispute or symptomatic of a greater issue?

Back OT, I hope the IDF release more footage of the boardings including the point where the decision was made to shoot the activists. No doubt the furore from this will die down in a few days/weeks and things will continue on until the next incident of victimhood perpetrated by the Israelis. I still don't understand why the Israeli gov't used the military and not a Coastguard vessel, presuming they have a Coastguard? Surely the Coastguard are better trained to board and take control of a civilian vessel rather than the military?

Manic Moran

skelliser wrote: »

Any update on the Rachel corrie?

[Pedant Mode]
It is generally incorrect to use 'the' when referencing a vessel by its name. It would be akin to my asking "Have you heard anything from the skelliser?" or saying "I'm going to the John's house for dinner".

Because the vessel's name is a definitive identifier, an additional definite article becomes redundant
[/Pedant mode]

NTM

karma_

IT-Guy wrote: »

This video stuck with me for a long time after I saw it, I think it's the same woman calling the other woman a whore in the vid you linked to. It's eye-opening to see how she turns from pleasant and thankful to be living where she is to the bare faced hatred and contempt she displays towards her Arab neighbour. All in the presence of an Israeli soldier who seems keen on protecting the settler more than the Arab. Probably gonna get labelled an Anti-Semite for this post but what the hell, it seems clear to me this woman's attitude towards the Arabs living in the area is they are a problem and need to be moved on. Then the neighbourhood will be all Jewish which seems to be her wish for all of Hebron. I know it's only one lady and I hope she's not representative of the settler's attitude towards the existent Arab population but one can't help but wonder, just a local dispute or symptomatic of a greater issue?

Back OT, I hope the IDF release more footage of the boardings including the point where the decision was made to shoot the activists. No doubt the furore from this will die down in a few days/weeks and things will continue on until the next incident of victimhood perpetrated by the Israelis. I still don't understand why the Israeli gov't used the military and not a Coastguard vessel, presuming they have a Coastguard? Surely the Coastguard are better trained to board and take control of a civilian vessel rather than the military?

She seems to be from the Ilse Koch school of compassion.

My name is URL

Manic Moran wrote: »

[Pedant Mode]
It is generally incorrect to use 'the' when referencing a vessel by its name. It would be akin to my asking "Have you heard anything from the skelliser?" or saying "I'm going to the John's house for dinner".

Because the vessel's name is a definitive identifier, an additional definite article becomes redundant
[/Pedant mode]

NTM

People might get it mixed up with the real Rachel Corrie then.. she could be on her way to Israel too, to haunt the IDF for what they did to her

Maybe she's already there :eek:

IT-Guy

Manic Moran wrote: »

[Pedant Mode]
It is generally incorrect to use 'the' when referencing a vessel by its name. It would be akin to my asking "Have you heard anything from the skelliser?" or saying "I'm going to the John's house for dinner".

Because the vessel's name is a definitive identifier, an additional definite article becomes redundant
[/Pedant mode]

NTM

[Puts normal cap on]

To be fair, calling the ship THE Rachel Corrie is probably just human linguistics differentiating her from the activist the ship is named after

[/Erm, leaves normal cap on?]

Manic Moran

the turkish government now break relations with Israel, isolating Israel from any muslim country

Not too badly, mind. Turkey's Defence Minister stated yesterday that they are not planning on cancelling any of their arms deals, and will still take delivery of Israeli drones this summer, the next currently scheduled sale.

NTM

El Horseboxo

Manic Moran wrote: »

[Pedant Mode]
It is generally incorrect to use 'the' when referencing a vessel by its name. It would be akin to my asking "Have you heard anything from the skelliser?" or saying "I'm going to the John's house for dinner".

Because the vessel's name is a definitive identifier, an additional definite article becomes redundant
[/Pedant mode]

NTM

Using definite articles is acceptable by most styles and is not grammatically incorrect if there is no prefix present at the ships name.

karma_

IT-Guy wrote: »

[Puts normal cap on]

To be fair, calling the ship THE Rachel Corrie is probably just human linguistics differentiating her from the activist the ship is named after

[/Erm, leaves normal cap on?]

Really not worthy of a response in fairness, I've regularly seen US warships referred to as 'The...' and no one ever took issue with it.

Nodin

karma_ wrote: »

She seems to be from the Ilse Koch school of compassion.

Settlements are like 'vetted' communities, so the level of fanaticism varies. Theres only 400 settlers in Hebron, but they're hardcore.

IT-Guy

karma_ wrote: »

She seems to be from the Ilse Koch school of compassion.

Just Googled her :eek: Psychopaths have a way of sniffing each other out it would seem

Silverado

Manic Moran wrote: »

[Pedant Mode]
It is generally incorrect to use 'the' when referencing a vessel by its name. It would be akin to my asking "Have you heard anything from the skelliser?" or saying "I'm going to the John's house for dinner".

Because the vessel's name is a definitive identifier, an additional definite article becomes redundant

It is maritime tradition to call a ship by the definite article i.e. The Titanic, The Victory etc. when the vessels were actually registered as "Titanic" and "Victory".

My name is URL

Silverado wrote: »

It is maritime tradition to call a ship by the definite article i.e. The Titanic, The Victory etc. when the vessels were actually registered as "Titanic" and "Victory".

They do it on Deadliest Catch too.. The Northwestern, The Wizard, The Cornelia Marie.. and those guys are tough as nails.. way tougher than soldiers!
*hides on soldiers*

bambooze

So innocent, not planned at all eh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZlSSaPT_OU

bambooze

bambooze wrote: »

So innocent, not planned at all eh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZlSSaPT_OU

Yes and while the guys on the ship were preparing their sticks and stones the IDF were loading their assault rifles.

Silverado

On a slightly different issue. We are all being told that The Rachel Corrie is heading for the port of Gaza.

Did anyone tell them that she is likely to go aground in the harbour because it is purely a small basin for fishing craft? That's something which is disastrous in the non tidal Mediterranean. Apparently the Palestinians have been trying to improve the depth and create a concrete quayside but, guess what, they don't have the cement.

They also don't have the equipment to dredge the harbour either because, yes - that's right, the Israelis won't allow it to be dredged. At the moment the locals are trying to do what they can by hand and with a few small mobile cranes. They have also constructed a small sand barge to collect the spoil for discharging outside.

Anyway if she actually is allowed to the harbour she can always anchor outside and have her cargo taken off gradually by the small fishing boats.

mikom

bambooze wrote: »

So innocent, not planned at all eh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZlSSaPT_OU

Goebbels would be proud.

bambooze

mikom wrote: »

Goebbels would be proud.

Godwin

mikom

bambooze wrote: »

Godwin

He was here a long time ago my man.