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Aid Floatillas Attacked

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    #152
    Jim236
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭Jim236


    I hope Micheál Martin expells the Israeli ambassador for this.


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    #153
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Jim236 wrote: »
    I hope Micheál Martin expells the Israeli ambassador for this.

    I hope we get a clear understanding of the issue at hand before we "expell" any diplomats. Lets not jump the gun here, excuse the pun...


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    #154
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB-Mk4bFz-U


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OTLoxIZEGc


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    #155
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,403 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Raiser wrote: »
    Where did you see a rant? I hate the fact that anything posted in After Hours that's not a Maddie joke or a Hah!-larious Fart joke is subject to this low-brow dismissive, reactionary shíte.

    - I 'Thanked' your post - Just in case that's what you were after.....

    Point was that, at the time of posting, OP had no idea if it was true or not. I;d class it as a rant against the Isrealis, whereas waiting and posting facts rather than rumour would have been a more measured and less emotional responce.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #156
    keefg
    Registered Users Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭keefg


    Jim236 wrote: »
    I hope Micheál Martin expells the Israeli ambassador for this.

    I think a quick phone call from that big factory in Celbridge would put a stop to any thoughts of that type of action ;)


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    #157
    iguana
    Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    prinz wrote: »
    Please show how they acted illegally and what law they broke?

    It's already been shown. But you are just ignoring anything that doesn't suit your agenda.

    FYI, I've worked for NGOs for years, including the one of the most "internationally recognised" of them all. We don't seek that recognition, it doesn't affect the way we operate, it's good to have it as it can make our aid workers safer and because we often get state funding. But how we operate, our charter, what we stand for, what is done with that money, issues that we campaign on, people/states that we condemn have nothing to do with any state or law but the morality of the organisation. International recognition isn't a legal term, it's just descriptive.

    You are talking out of your ass about most things on this thread.


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    #158
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    I'm not using it as a get out of jail free card.

    If you want to understand the Israeli, you need to understand all the things in his head that make him tick.

    Same for the arab.

    Understand them, and you might make a peace.

    Neville chamberlain felt the same way. :)


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    #159
    iguana
    Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    No, I am not.

    The blockade extends into international waters.

    The weren't within the exclusion zone either. But don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasy.:rolleyes:


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    #160
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    iguana wrote: »
    It's already been shown. But you are just ignoring anything that doesn't suit your agenda. .

    How has it been shown? So far I have seen nobody show that Israel acted illegally, that it is outside the remit of any nation to act in international waters etc. Please refresh my memory?
    iguana wrote: »
    International recognition isn't a legal term, it's just descriptive..

    Who do you think has in real terms more legitimacy and more protection say the Red Cross or Miley from Glenroe driving his tractor of aid?
    iguana wrote: »
    You are talking out of your ass about most things on this thread.

    Such as what exactly?


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    #161
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    Please show how they acted illegally and what law they broke?

    hasnt this been done? Piracy? An illegal invasion of a Turkish registered ship in international waters. Your counter claim that the Israelis are exempt from this law because they havent signed it, and anyway the US did the same with Cuba, is spurious.

    Laws about international waters and piracy far precede the UN conventions, a country doesn't get to decide what water it owns.

    And what "arms" was this flotilla supposed to be carrying?


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    #162
    Spastafarian
    Registered Users Posts: 749 ✭✭✭Spastafarian


    In fairness this aid flotilla was clearly done to get a reaction from isreal, they hardly expected to waltz into Gaza and they obviously hated Israel or they wouldn't have started battering armed commandos with iron bars. The isreali attack on the ships was carried out in the dumbest way possible though, why would you drop commandos who clearly have terrible sense of balance into the middle of a group of angry guys with sticks? Extreme stupidity on both sides as usual.


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    #163
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Pittens wrote: »
    Laws about international waters and piracy far precede the UN conventions, a country doesn't get to decide what water it owns.

    Been done before. Will be done again. Protective principle. Again lots of rhetoric nothing to back it up.


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    #164
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Pittens wrote: »
    hasnt this been done? Piracy? An illegal invasion of a Turkish registered ship in international waters. Your counter claim that the Israelis are exempt from this law because they havent signed it, and anyway the US did the same with Cuba, is spurious.

    Laws about international waters and piracy far precede the UN conventions, a country doesn't get to decide what water it owns.

    And what "arms" was this flotilla supposed to be carrying?

    They were clearly smuggling a consignment of surface to surface crowbars.


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    #165
    iguana
    Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    prinz wrote: »
    Who do you think has in real terms more legitimacy and more protection say the Red Cross or Miley from Glenroe driving his tractor of aid?

    Well if you knew what you were talking about at all, you'd know that the Red Cross is completely different to other NGOs and is partially subject to the Geneva Convention. Just by that comment alone you have shown that much of your arguments are coming from your own fantasies rather than facts.

    And in real terms a charity giving aid has every bit as much legitimacy as any other charity giving aid. Just because one charity is very large doesn't make it more worthwhile or legitimate than a smaller one. If it's registered as a charity then that means that it's a charity.


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    #166
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    The protective principle is a bit dubious. Since this was an unarmed aid convoy.

    That said, I suppose that you would accept Israeli ships to be targets in international waters, or their own now - since they seem to attack other people's registered vessels at will..


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    #167
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Pittens wrote: »
    hasnt this been done? Piracy? An illegal invasion of a Turkish registered ship in international waters. Your counter claim that the Israelis are exempt from this law because they havent signed it, and anyway the US did the same with Cuba, is spurious.

    Laws about international waters and piracy far precede the UN conventions, a country doesn't get to decide what water it owns.

    And what "arms" was this flotilla supposed to be carrying?
    The flotilla was carrying no arms. But a blockade is universal.

    If someone wants to go to war with Israel over this blockade, for example the arab defenders of the Palestinians (look at all they've done for them down through the years............), they can feel free.


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    #168
    Elessar
    Registered Users Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭Elessar


    Like the Israeli invasion of gaza, this will blow over and be forgotten about in a few weeks. Because the sad fact of the matter is, Israel can do whatever the hell it wants.

    Nothing to see here, move along people.


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    #169
    iguana
    Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    The flotilla was carrying no arms. But a blockade is universal.

    If someone wants to go to war with Israel over this blockade, for example the arab defenders of the Palestinians (look at all they've done for them down through the years............), they can feel free.

    They were not within the blockaded exclusion zone. They were in completely undisputed, uncontrolled International Water.


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    #170
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    iguana wrote: »
    They were not within the blockaded exclusion zone. They were in completely undisputed, uncontrolled International Water.
    With a stated intention to run the blockade.

    If I was the Israeli's, I wouldn't have boarded. I'd have taken out their rudder and towed them in, whether they liked it or not.

    They were wrong to board the ships.

    They were not wrong to stop them.


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    #171
    Standard Toaster
    Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Standard Toaster


    One Irish citizen reported injured on Gaza aid ships
    Israeli media has reported that one Irish person had been wounded on the attack on Gaza-bound aid ships by the Israeli Navy today.


    Just seen some of the footage, crazy stuff altogether


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    #172
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    The main problem I have is that the aid workers attacked the Israeli commandos with sticks (we don't know who attacked first). It was hardly right for the Israelis to attack back with guns. Rubber bullets maybe but not not lead bullets.


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    #173
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    The Fox/Sky news are spinning this one out already, who's to say they cant for instance, plant arms on these ships?

    Israel, like America, can do whatever the f**k it wants, and if you or I even dare to question them, we're branded as Hamas/Al Quaeda supporters. The sad thing is this will be forgotten in a month because of the above mentioned media. Orwell got it right in 1984.


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    #174
    SlabMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 462 ✭✭SlabMurphy


    PeterIanStaker wrote: »
    The Fox/Sky news are spinning this one out already, who's to say they cant for instance, plant arms on these ships?

    Israel, like America, can do whatever the f**k it wants, and if you or I even dare to question them, we're branded as Hamas/Al Quaeda supporters. The sad thing is this will be forgotten in a month because of the above mentioned media. Orwell got it right in 1984.
    Because little Israel is the First state of America.......


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    #175
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    No matter how some Israeli support like to put it, Israeli fired upon a ship under the Turkish flag which is technically and act of belligerence against Turkey.


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    #176
    EuskalHerria
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,273 ✭✭✭EuskalHerria


    No guns aboard Gaza humanitarian aid ships

    Customs officials at the Antalya port have denied Israel’s claims that weapons were detected on a ship taking humanitarian aid to Gaza that took off from Antalya on Sunday.
    Officials of the Customs Directorate said all of the passengers that boarded the Mavi Marmara ship had to go through X-ray detectors. They said not a single passenger had weapons in their person. “42 passengers had boarded in Istanbul, here 504 passengers got on the ship. They passed through detectors and X-rays. We did not spot any weapons and there is no such record in our logs. We did not notice anything suspicious about Mavi Marmara. If our officers got suspicious of anything, they would have reported it.”
    Israeli commandoes stormed a flotilla of ships carrying activists and aid supplies to Gaza on the early hours of Monday. 16 were reported dead.

    http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=211621&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


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    #177
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    What are the odds that Turkey will consider the storming of its ship in international waters by a foreign power an act of war and invoke the NATO treaty, thereby involving the United States?

    yeah, thought so.


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    #178
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    No matter how some Israeli support like to put it, Israeli fired upon a ship under the Turkish flag which is technically and act of belligerence against Turkey.
    Turkey would be welcome to have a go. They could ring up the Syrians, the Jordanians, the Iraqi's, the Egyptians and others to ask for winning advice.


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    #179
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    A digusting act of piracy in international waters, by a regime, well known for killing innocent people. No matter which version of events is to be believed, Israel is still in the wrong.


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    #180
    SlabMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 462 ✭✭SlabMurphy


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    They were warned not to run the blockade. They chose to do so, even when other avenues existed to deliver to aid to Gaza. They wanted to make a PR show of Israel.

    They were entitled to do what they liked, but never bring a 2x4 to a gun fight.
    No, bring Zyklon B instead.


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    #181
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    PeterIanStaker wrote: »
    The sad thing is this will be forgotten in a month because of the above mentioned media.

    That is pretty much what they are counting on.

    Just like when they forged Irish passports to carry out a murder a few months back.

    They really have absolutely no sense of shame and are completely brazen in their contempt and lack of respect for intl. law.

    They are also experts at media manipulation & spin and have countless lobby and advocacy groups trying to manipulate how the media portray their actions.

    I think the thing to do is to remember these incidents, personally boycott ALL israeli produce if you are not already doing this and keep to that permanently.

    Also Irish consumers boycotting israeli goods will help Irish jobs rather than support this particular regime.


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