Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

paulaa

prinz wrote: »

Firstly Israel is not a signatory of the UN Convention of the Law of the Sea.

Secondly a country has the legal right to act in international waters in some circumstances. It's called the protective principle.

Israel is obviously not a believer in decency and humanity either unless it is their own.

The only good thing about this whole fiasco is that more and more people will see Israel for what it has become, a vicious apartheid state with no regard for human rights, international laws or treaties.
It's a pity innocent, decent & well meaning people had to die.

Di0genes

SlabMurphy wrote: »

Well I'll tell you one thing comrade, if I pick up some punters in my taxi this week and ask them where they are from and their from the Zionist state, telling them to f*** off out of my car will be the most polite words they'll get out of me :mad:

Well there's a mature attitude. You do understand that much in the same way not every British person defends their army's behavior 100% many israeli's will be as shocked and disgusted as you are by the IDF actions.

I know of several people of jewish ethnicity who will be joining in the protest in Dublin tonight.

IrishTonyO

prinz wrote: »

Firstly Israel is not a signatory of the UN Convention of the Law of the Sea.

Secondly a country has the legal right to act in international waters in some circumstances. It's called the protective principle.

The protective principle only applies when the security of the state involved is threatened. There is no evidence of that at all, the ships were checked before departure from all ports.

prinz

halkar wrote: »

Israel should have send their customs, inspect the goods and if they did not find what they looking for they should have escort the ships to Gaza and monitor the unloading of the ships. There was no need to play rambo here..

Again, the Israelis offered this, they offered this be done under the watchful eye of the UN, the organisors refused.

ghostdancer

baldbear wrote: »

The Israelis are saying a person on the boat grabbed a rifle off a soldier. Thats what started the violence. From the videos all i could see was afew people with mops and sticks throwing them around. Heavy handed over reaction is a big understatement here.
This is like the spin the British put out after bloody Sunday.

funny that there's already a video out there that shows people injured and blood all over the boat, well before the IDF even boarded, as shown by the video of them still in their boats approaching.


if israel wants to BS the world, it should really get it's story solid before it starts giving their version of events....

Nijmegen

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I can only imagine considering how they reacted when they knew food and medicine was being brought in last night....

Blockades only work when they are universal.

The aid could have gone in over land. If not through Israel, why not Egypt, fellow Muslim brethern? Oh, yes, they think Hamas is bonkers too.

A blockade is a blockade.

IrishTonyO

prinz wrote: »

Again, the Israelis offered this, they offered this be done under the watchful eye of the UN, the organisors refused.

Israel only allows 15,000 tonnes of aid a month into Gaza and according to the the UN and the Red Cross this is about 25% of what is required.

FishFood

I just don't understand why other topics like Egypt/Hamas/previous conflicts get dragged into this topic.Look at this event as a stand alone circumstance.You have aid ships with the cargo checked by aid agencies for weapons, ships with activists/humanitarians/politicians etc of various countries in international waters.Israel issues a warning that they run the risk of running a military blockade and face consequences if they do.But instead of waiting for the ships to cross into what they perceive as their waters they board them in International waters which is piracy/hijacking in any sense of the word and entitles the people on board to defend themselves as they see fit.In makes no difference what Hamas are up to or who considers the occupation/blockade to be illegal or whatever the hell Egypt get up to as some of the apologists keep trying to confuse the situation with. The fact is that Israel acted illegally with no fear of sanction and the result is that civilians have ended up dead again.Imagine the reaction if it had been Iranian soldiers boarding a western aid fleet and 10-15 american/british civilians had died and the Iranian claim was 'Oh it was self defence and they were heading into our waters although the weren't actually in them yet'....

OhNoYouDidn't

prinz wrote: »

Again, the Israelis offered this, they offered this be done under the watchful eye of the UN, the organisors refused.

No they didn't. They offered to take the aid to an Israeli port and disperse as they saw fit. The UN would have not been involved.

On the basis the stated policy of Isreal is to not give enough aid to the people of Gaza, the offer was refused.

BluePlanet

prinz wrote: »

Again, the Israelis offered this, they offered this be done under the watchful eye of the UN, the organisors refused.

Can you provide a link supporting this?

eamo12

SlabMurphy wrote: »

( why anyone could be surprised at these disgusting sub humans the Zionists is beyond me ).

Ah yes, I see you got your old anti-Semite fascist dictionary out again. Not unexpected given your profile name.

prinz

IrishTonyO wrote: »

The protective principle only applies when the security of the state involved is threatened..

I'd say Hamas threaten Israeli security wouldn't you?

RasTa

The reason the organisers refused is because chocolate and pencils and other such ridiculous items are on the sanction list by the Israeli's

OhNoYouDidn't

Nijmegen wrote: »

Blockades only work when they are universal.

The aid could have gone in over land. If not through Israel, why not Egypt, fellow Muslim brethern? Oh, yes, they think Hamas is bonkers too.

A blockade is a blockade.

And its still illegal, immoral and fundamentally wrong.

Up tp 20 unarmed people were killed by commandos and helicopter gunshiips for trying to hand out food to a near starving people and you are justifying it. Says a great deal about you and the cancerous political system you defend

arybvtcw0eolkf

gurramok wrote: »

LOL, comedy here?

Have a look at the truth. Israeli Arabs are 2nd class citizens in their own country.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8165338.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8164755.stm

I don't have time to go through the whole thing, but mostly where Arabs living in Israel fall short and where even Jew's in Israel fall short - is they don't do reserve service in the IDF.

Failure to do so closes a lot of avenues to employment rights, social welfare (include health) and a host of other things to anyone who excuses themselves from military service in Israel, except maybe the settlers - who are hated by Arabs and Israeli's equally.

But thats an entirely separate discussion and I'm already late for training & work.

OhNoYouDidn't

prinz wrote: »

I'd say Hamas threaten Israeli security wouldn't you?

I'm sure they do, but its irrelevent to the topic in hand, which is shooting up an aid convoy in the dead of night in international waters....

ghostdancer

Nijmegen wrote: »

I don't think Israel really cares about legal where keeping up a blockade that prevents rockets landing on its territory is concerned. Neither was the US in blockading Cuba. Neither have most blockades in history.

If you were the leader of Israel you knew rockets and other weapons were being brought into Gaza, what might you do, pray tell?

The answer 'disband Israel and leave, because we never had a right to be there' doesn't count. The Israeli's had some serious debate with the arabs next door on the point, several times. They usually won.

ah yes, the old israel apologists excuse of

"it doesn't matter what israel did, hamas are launching rockets at them, that gives israel the right to do XYZ".

almost used as often as "well, iran is pretty crazy, so whatever we do in the ME is ok".


i'll not reply to your hypothetical and silly scenario if you don't mind, i'd prefer to discuss the issue at hand.


talking about hamas and rockets can be left to other threads when israel-supporters drag them off course attempting to justified whatever they've done that time.

Nijmegen

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And its still illegal, immoral and fundamentally wrong.

Up tp 20 unarmed people were killed by commandos and helicopter gunshiips for trying to hand out food to a near starving people and you are justifying it. Says a great deal about you and the cancerous political system you defend

It is not fundamentally wrong to prevent arms from falling into the hands of people who would happily bomb civilians all day long.

It is not fundamentally right, the conflict there. There are no good guys.

There's just a thin strip of land with scant resources and a lot of people.

Hamas is not willing to talk peace. So they can have hardship and war.

The Israeli blockade of the West Bank? Not so bad, I hear.

IrishTonyO

prinz wrote: »

I'd say Hamas threaten Israeli security wouldn't you?

oh so the people of Gaza do not deserve food medicine or building materials then, so it all ok, I mean the food might make them live and threaten Israel. Your logic or lack of it is amusing to say the least. The flotilla was full of aid workers, politicians, and humanitarian activists from all over the world including Ireland.
And can you explain what threat pencils or chocolate are tp Israel that they are on the banned list????

dlofnep

Ok - I'm back.

Israel's intentions were very clear when they stated a few days ago asking the world to "understand their response". They stated that Gaza did not require aid, despite the UN countering these claims.

Israel should be ashamed on itself and Ireland should cut all ties with Israel.

A number of protests are being organised today. I urge everyone to get up off their hole and get out and be heard. Debating this on boards.ie will get us nowhere.

4 protests that I know of today are organised:

BELFAST
Monday, May 31, 2010 4:00 PM Wellington Place

DUBLIN
Monday, May 31, 2010 6:00 PM Dublin Spire, O'Connoll Street

CORK
Monday, May 31, 2010 1:00 PM Daunt Sq

WATERFORD
Monday, May 31, 2010 4:45PM Bridge Hotel, Waterford City

Be active, get mobile! This is one issue you cannot afford to be an armchair critic on.

ghostdancer

prinz wrote: »

Firstly Israel is not a signatory of the UN Convention of the Law of the Sea.

Secondly a country has the legal right to act in international waters in some circumstances. It's called the protective principle.

israel, picking and choosing international laws to suit them.

glad this shining beacon of democracy in the middle east exists to show others the way.

OhNoYouDidn't

Nijmegen wrote: »

It is not fundamentally wrong to prevent arms from falling into the hands of people who would happily bomb civilians all day long.

It is not fundamentally right, the conflict there. There are no good guys.

There's just a thin strip of land with scant resources and a lot of people.

Hamas is not willing to talk peace. So they can have hardship and war.

The Israeli blockade of the West Bank? Not so bad, I hear.

Nor are Israel, so therefore they deserve all they get?

Grow up. What happened last night was unprecedented in its barbarity and disregard for the rules.

prinz

BluePlanet wrote: »

Can you provide a link supporting this?

http://www.kuwaittimes.net/read_news.php?newsid=NTc1MzIzMzIy re the diverting and unloading of aid..

Here for what happens to the aid that does get through..

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL4273371._CH_.2400

PeakOutput

report from british journalist in israel who is at the dock

he says that it sounds like the idf were attacked with sticks and knives as they boarded and then shots were fired from twopistols at them which is when they returned fire

however the reports are also saying there is up to 19 dead which does sound excessive

alastair

SlabMurphy wrote: »

Well I'll tell you one thing comrade, if I pick up some punters in my taxi this week and ask them where they are from and their from the Zionist state, telling them to f*** off out of my car will be the most polite words they'll get out of me :mad:

Racist/bigot taximan shocker!

Amhran Nua

Nijmegen wrote: »

It is not fundamentally right, the conflict there. There are no good guys.

Having almost fifty people gunned down is about as far from good as you are likely to get. Thats not random or suppressive fire, thats a deliberate effort to kill everyone they saw.

Nijmegen

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Nor are Israel, so therefore they deserve all they get?

Grow up. What happened last night was unprecedented in its barbarity and disregard for the rules.

Israel and the more moderate fellows over in the W. Bank were fairly close to a deal when Hamas went off on one.

I don't think the Israeli people enjoy living in a country where it rains rockets.

baldbear

Im listening to newstalk. Theres the Israeli ambassador on. Hes saying they wanted a confrontation and was a preplanned violent attack! Great spin.

dlofnep

PeakOutput wrote: »

report from british journalist in israel who is at the dock

he says that it sounds like the idf were attacked with sticks and knives as they boarded and then shots were fired from twopistols at them which is when they returned fire

however the reports are also saying there is up to 19 dead which does sound excessive

That is what Israel stated happened.

We know full well the media propaganda spins are going to try and turn this against the activists. The world will see Israel for what it is. Tweets were sent out that Israel boarded via helicopters and opened fire immediately, without provocation.

thusspakeblixa

PeakOutput wrote: »

report from british journalist in israel who is at the dock

he says that it sounds like the idf were attacked with sticks and knives as they boarded and then shots were fired from twopistols at them which is when they returned fire

Yeah but that was a Sky News report AFAIK.

Take it with a pinch of salt, as neither Ha'aretz nor Al Jazeera are reporting that.