Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

Memnoch

gandalf wrote: »

Its between 0.51 & 0.53 on the video entitled Weapons Found on the Flotilla Ship Mavi Marmara Used by Activists Against IDF Soldiers

On the idfnadesk channel on your favourite youtube. Can't wait for your comments on this

ROFL
I paused the video on the close up of the bottle.

I'm a doctor... that's a bottle of SODIUM CHLORIDE(NaCL), also known as NORMAL SALINE and is given to people who are losing blood to keep up their blood pressure... also, it's attached very clearly to a plastic IV giving set which is used to deliver the saline and control the rate at which it goes.

Fecking hell, you can even read the fecking label it says SODYUM KLORUH (which I presume translates to Sodium Chloride) below a blue band that says 500 ml.

Also there's this little blue plastic around the bottle that would be typically used to hang up the bottle on a bedside stand or a nail or something...

And the Israelis and their supporters tried to claim that this is a WEAPON? A FIRE ****ING BOMB no less?

Are you joking? God, please hang me now.

Seriously, if I was someone who believed ANYTHING the IDF said, and I looked at that, and they claimed that was a fire bomb....

I'd have to be the biggest idiot in the world to believe a word that comes out of their mouth again.

P. Breathnach

Irlandese wrote: »

No, friend, I am afraid bambooze is definitely right on all counts here. In fact, under EU legislation, regarding privacy, it would be illegal to show same unedited.

EU legislation? What has that got to do with anything here?

Further, what is the legal authority for Israel having taken possession of other people's videos and showing them at all? Copyright law has more applicability here than EU law.

digme

Memnoch wrote: »

ROFL
I paused the video on the close up of the bottle.

I'm a doctor... that's a bottle of SODIUM CHLORIDE(NaCL), also known as NORMAL SALINE and is given to people who are losing blood to keep up their blood pressure... also, it's attached very clearly to a plastic IV giving set which is used to deliver the saline and control the rate at which it goes.

Fecking hell, you can even read the fecking label it says SODYUM KLORUH (which I presume translates to Sodium Chloride) below a blue band that says 500 ml.

Also there's this little blue plastic around the bottle that would be typically used to hang up the bottle on a bedside stand or a nail or something...

And the Israelis and their supporters tried to claim that this is a WEAPON? A FIRE ****ING BOMB no less?

Are you joking? God, please hang me now.

Seriously, if I was someone who believed ANYTHING the IDF said, and I looked at that, and they claimed that was a fire bomb....

I'd have to be the biggest idiot in the world to believe a word that comes out of their mouth again.

amen

prinz

Memnoch wrote: »

ROFL
I paused the video on the close up of the bottle.
I'm a doctor... that's a bottle of SODIUM CHLORIDE(NaCL), also known as NORMAL SALINE and is given to people who are losing blood to keep up their blood pressure... also, it's attached very clearly to a plastic IV giving set which is used to deliver the saline and control the rate at which it goes.

If I take a bottle of coke, fill it with petrol and use it as a petrol bomb, does the fact that it says CocaCola on the label have anything to do with it?

prinz

BluePlanet wrote: »

Actually i read they are pulling into another port to allow more human rights activists onboard.

Ah yes, just what you need when you are starving under a blockade. Activists.

P. Breathnach

prinz wrote: »

If I take a bottle of coke, fill it with petrol and use it as a petrol bomb, does the fact that it says CocaCola on the label have anything to do with it?

You know there is petrol in the bottle, then?

Memnoch

Is the reason why more "eyewitnesses" haven't come out to say that they saw fellow crew mates try to murder Israeli commandos because it never happened? I doubt it. However, just because I doubt it doesn't make it a potential reason. Just very very very unlikely.

What? It's very very very unlikely that the reason there are no eye-witnesses to something is because it didn't happen in the first place? I would have thought that would be the most likely reason for there to not be eye-witnesses to something.

Also murder is a very interesting term. I notice you use murder for the civilians if they "attacked" (even in self-defence?) the commandos. I've never seen you use that term in relation to the Israeli soldiers shooting someone in the head four times.

prinz

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You know there is petrol in the bottle, then?

Nope. No more than anyone else knows there wasn't.

BluePlanet

prinz wrote: »

Ah yes, just what you need when you are starving under a blockade. Activists.

Starving?

Sure what about all that other Aid the Israeli's are supposedly delivering?
:rolleyes:

Memnoch

prinz wrote: »

Ah yes, just what you need when you are starving under a blockade. Activists.

If they bring enough moral pressure to bear that the blockade is lifted and aid that is already there and waiting is allowed to go in, then yes, that's EXACTLY what you need.

wes

prinz wrote: »

If I take a bottle of coke, fill it with petrol and use it as a petrol bomb, does the fact that it says CocaCola on the label have anything to do with it?

Any evidence to back up your fire bomb claims? Thus far you have give none.

digme

BluePlanet wrote: »

Starving?

Sure what about all that other Aid the Israeli's are supposedly delivering?
:rolleyes:

isnt coke cola banned?

prinz

BluePlanet wrote: »

Sure what about all that other Aid the Israeli's are supposedly delivering?
:rolleyes:

Perhaps if the Israelis loaded their trucks with activists too, the Gazans would be better off.

wes

prinz wrote: »

Nope. No more than anyone else knows there wasn't.

You are making the claim, so its up to you to prove it, which you have repeatedly failed to so.

sceptre

prinz wrote: »

Nope. No more than anyone else knows there wasn't.

In that case, it might be prudent for everyone not to make any assumptions about what's in it or not in it.

prinz

wes wrote: »

You are making the claim, so its up to you to prove it, which you have repeatedly failed to so.

Sorry I think it was Fuhrer who began making claims about what was and what wasn't used.

Foxtrol

Memnoch wrote: »

What do you mean no one can back up those statements?

Eye-witness reports (of which there have been PLENTY) are accepted in pretty much every single legitimate court of law. And those eye-witness reports CANNOT be dismissed simply on the basis that they come from the victim, otherwise no one would ever be convicted of rape.

When taking into account eye-witness reports the key is the credibility of the person giving the report. And most of these reports are coming from international citizens in good standing. Politicians, novelists, journalists, writers.

While it's been demonstrated innumerable times and I believe IRREFUTABLY that the IDF have no credible standing.

As for more objective and unquestoinable evidence? Oh wait, the IDF siezed it all and refuse to show it to anyone. But hey, lets find some random reason to justify this that takes the blame away from the IDF because well, we're all just SOOO impartial here, and not trying to abet a cover-up AT ALL.

Lets throw out the example of rape again...

I'm not saying the IDF aren't trying to cover up it all. I'm saying the Flotilla have just as much reason to cover up parts of the story as the IDF do. If it came out that there was a portion of the flotilla who were, from the outset, hell bent on attacking Israelis then the whole protest and the actions of the IDF would both be seen in a different light. "Politicians, novelists, writers" who to take time out of their schedules to join the flotilla. This is before they were detained (possibly with force), held for days, deported and even potentially a friend killed on the boat.

There are many here finding "random reasons" to place no blame whatsoever on the Flotilla. (That is not an excuse to again provide said random reasons)

bambooze

Foxtrol wrote: »

Im sure many here and around the world would claim the Israelis were monsters if they posted videos of them blowing protesters brains out. Is that the reason why they're not giving out the videos? Probably not.

Actually there has been some debate in israel regarding display of gruesome images of terrorist attacks.. typically any pics you would see of the aftermath of a bus bombing for example would have already had all the dead and wounded and dismembered limbs removed.

Some people have argued that since hamas and their ilk will display every shocking image they can find of anyone killed or wounded by israel then Israel should counter with the same. I dont know what the current official stance is.

Fuhrer

prinz wrote: »

Sorry I think it was Fuhrer who began making claims about what was and what wasn't used.

Yes


But I made claims on what was more likely


Not that horrible cop out argument "what was possible"

prinz

sceptre wrote: »

In that case, it might be prudent for everyone not to make any assumptions about what's in it or not in it.

Indeed it would be. Which is why the same prudency should be exercised by everyone.

wes

prinz wrote: »

Sorry I think it was Fuhrer who began making claims about what was and what wasn't used.

You said it was a firebomb. Prove it was a firebomb then. You made this claim, and have provided 0 evidence for it. So again, do you have a single shred of evidence for your claim?

**EDIT**
You made the claim in this post:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66233124&postcount=3049

So once again, can you prove your claim?
**END EDIT**

Dar

prinz wrote: »

If I take a bottle of coke, fill it with petrol and use it as a petrol bomb, does the fact that it says CocaCola on the label have anything to do with it?

Hmmmm, let me see:

- Bottle says saline on the label
- Drip chamber still attached
- IV line still attached
- Hanger still attached

Why obviously its a petrol bomb!

gandalf

sceptre wrote: »

In that case, it might be prudent for everyone not to make any assumptions about what's in it or not in it.

But I am not making assumptions I have stated what it is labelled as and someone who is a doctor has confirmed that it is set up correctly for medical use.

People claiming that its a petrol bomb have not shown anything to prove that assumption.

Memnoch

prinz wrote: »

If I take a bottle of coke, fill it with petrol and use it as a petrol bomb, does the fact that it says CocaCola on the label have anything to do with it?

Jesus, you can see the dried blood on the ****ing bottle and the label from the person that was trying to treat the patient handling it...

I meaning mother ****ing christ you can see the ****ing blood INSIDE the IV giving set at the point to which it joins the bottle and also in part of the tube, probably from back flow from the patient.

Seriously, if you had to climb up on the roof of your house and stick the antenna up your arse in order to convince yourself that everything the Israelis were saying was true and they were perfectly innocent, would you do that too?

Especially considering the whole White Phospherous incident. Oh Darling, I'm so sorry. I promise it was just this ONE time. I'll never beat you black and blue again.

prinz

Fuhrer wrote: »

The one about a "Fire Bomb" being thrown.
When it was a firework.

Fuhrer wrote: »

Yes
But I made claims on what was more likely
Not that horrible cop out argument "what was possible"

I don't see anything in the above post about anything being more likely?

sceptre

gandalf wrote: »

But I am not making assumptions I have stated what it is labelled as and someone who is a doctor has confirmed that it is set up correctly for medical use.

People claiming that its a petrol bomb have not shown anything to prove that assumption.

That was intended to be part (and a significant part) of what I was implying:) You're entirely correct.

Wibbs

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'm pleased to say that I have no special expertise on firebombs, and I have forgotten more chemistry than I remember (I'm less pleased about the latter). I do know, however, that to make a firebomb you need a highly volatile material, and I'm pretty sure that the sort of fuel or lubrication oil that you might find on a ship would not be suitable for such a purpose. If there were Molotov cocktails on board, I would suspect that they were prepared in advance of the flotilla sailing. That does not gel with the fact that all other weaponry shown either was not weaponry at all or looked like the sort of thing you might might grab and use in a fight.

Oh I agree. That was my point. Even moreso as fuel oil as used on ships would be a very effective firebomb fuel. So the IDF notion that the passengers were prepared for this sort of action is laughable. If a couple of kids on the west bank or the street of belfast can rustle up firebombs in matter of minutes, then nutters(tm) on a boat surrounded by all the materials required would have no difficulty at all. Yet the only "evidence" so far is a firecracker NOT a firebomb and a bottle that would be part of medical equipment for either on board use or as part of the supplies bound for Gaza.

droidus

I was down in Temple Street recently. Firebombs everywhere. The monsters were even attatching them to children!

doncarlos

doncarlos wrote: »

Bambooze, Prinz

These are indisputable facts;

1. There was a video released by the IDF showing their soldiers being attacked when they were boarding
2. Footage of what happened before and after that would prove what happened is being withheld by the IDF
3. The IDF have made claims and now have withdrawn them.
4. The reports from the IDF and EVERYONE on the boats conflict
5. The IDF and Israel have been known to lie in the past.

What compels you to believe what the IDF are telling you?

Lads any chance you could answer my question please?

prinz

wes wrote: »

You said it was a firebomb. Prove it was a firebomb then.
So once again, can you prove your claim?
**END EDIT**

Can Fuhrer prove what was thrown was a firework? You see this works both ways.