Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

prinz

dlofnep wrote: »

Tweets were sent out that Israel boarded via helicopters and opened fire immediately, without provocation.

Well if it's a tweet from someone on board one of the ships it's obviously true :rolleyes:

Memnoch

Nijmegen wrote: »

It is not fundamentally wrong to prevent arms from falling into the hands of people who would happily bomb civilians all day long.

They were not trying to prevent arms, you can lie about this all day long. They were trying to prevent aid as part of their general action to punish the civilian population of gaza by limiting the amount of aid reaching a starving populace. They have acted criminally every single step of the way. You're attempts to derail the issue are equally deplorable and disgusting and completely representative of the criminals you are trying to defend.

It is not fundamentally right, the conflict there. There are no good guys.

The civillian population of Gaza are the good guys. A bunch of strong hearted and willed people, not cowering to the bullying of Israel and trying to bring essential food and supplies to the people of Gaza are the good guys. These good guys mercilessly butchered by war criminals are heroes.

There's just a thin strip of land with scant resources and a lot of people.

Due to the continuing criminal actions of the state of Israel and the war crimes committed by the IDF.

Hamas is not willing to talk peace. So they can have hardship and war.

This has nothing to do with Hamas. Classic lies and deflection in defence of murder and criminality.

The Israeli blockade of the West Bank? Not so bad, I hear.

Of course not. Wouldn't expect anything else from someone who defends the cold blooded murder of innocent civillians.

You disgust me.

PeterIanStaker

Sky News is going to have a field day with this. Remember, if you say anything bad about Israel, you're automatically a holocaust denying Nazi:rolleyes:

stackerman

No more Israeli goods in my house

IrishTonyO

prinz wrote: »

Well if it's a tweet from someone on board one of the ships it's obviously true :rolleyes:

Look at the video posted previously taken from the ships, there was gun fire blood and people injured/killed before the soldiers boarded.

doncarlos

PeakOutput wrote: »

report from british journalist in israel who is at the dock

he says that it sounds like the idf were attacked with sticks and knives as they boarded and then shots were fired from twopistols at them which is when they returned fire

That's what the Isralies are saying. Completely different report coming from the ships saying the commandos fired before boarding the ships.


"The two sides offered conflicting versions of events, with a reporter on one of the boats saying the Israelis fired at the vessel before boarding it.
However, the Israelis said they only opened fire after being attacked by activists with sticks, knives and live fire. An IDF statment said the operation turned deadly after one of the activists grabbed a weapon from one of the commandos, which was then discharged.
According to tweets from activists on board the ships, Israeli forces dropped from helicopters on to the deck of the Turkish passenger ship, the Marvi Mamara, at 4.30am and immediately opened fire. The ship was surrounded by navy vessels."

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/31/israel-kills-activists-flotilla-gaza

wes

To be perfectly honest, even if Israel version of events were true, there still in the wrong, as they were engaged in an act of piracy in international waters. If what they say is true (which with Israel track record of always lieing is unlikely), then any resistance, is no different than a vessel resisting attack from Somali pirates.

Anyway, you look at it, Israel is in the wrong. There actions are illegal, regardless of who's version of events you believe. They had no right to board that ship, and as such were engaged in piracy, and there is no doubt about that.

bernardo mac

kev1639,interesting you mentioned Apatheid South Africa.Just came across an article from The Guardian re.Shimon Peres ,Israeli Defence Minister in 1975 and his discussions ,that year,with PW Botha S.A's Defence Minister about the purchase of " Israeli weapons systems including ballistic missiles".Shimon Peres,now President of Israel denies that nuclear warheads were offered but Secret South African documents clearly reveal otherwise ,according to academic Sasha Polakow-Suransky.In 1975,Israel would not deny or admit it had Nuclear weapons.

Zulu

baldbear wrote: »

Im listening to newstalk. Theres the Israeli ambassador on. Hes saying they wanted a confrontation and was a preplanned violent attack! Great spin.

I know, the mind boggles!
Clearly they wanted a confrontation! If I was going to confront IDF commandos, brush handles & knives would be exactly what I'd use. :rolleyes:

I think someone has been watching WAY TOO MUCH Stephen Segal.

Euroland

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And its still illegal, immoral and fundamentally wrong.

Up tp 20 unarmed people were killed by commandos and helicopter gunshiips for trying to hand out food to a near starving people and you are justifying it. Says a great deal about you and the cancerous political system you defend

He is an Israeli, and most of them just brainwashed by their government.

B0jangles

And a man on the dock who got 2nd/3rd hand accounts from the IDF about what happened is GUARANTEED 100% to have gotten the truth

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Nijmegen

Everyone seems to be assuming that Israel is lying and the people on the boats are all saints.

I'd say the majority of them were good for good reasons, but a few likely caused all the trouble. You always get trouble makers at this sort of a gig, only this time instead of smashing up a McDonald's at a G20 meeting they tried their luck smacking an Israeli soldier.

That's a supposition, not fact. But it's likely, in my guess, that Israel didn't send soldiers onto those ships with orders to shoot everything that moved. They're heavy handed, but I think there's two sides to this tale.

dlofnep

prinz wrote: »

Well if it's a tweet from someone on board one of the ships it's obviously true :rolleyes:

You're going to believe, what you're going to believe - no matter what I say. I couldn't give a monkeys about what you believe. :rolleyes:

PeakOutput

dlofnep wrote: »

That is what Israel stated happened.

We know full well the media propaganda spins are going to try and turn this against the activists. The world will see Israel for what it is. Tweets were sent out that Israel boarded via helicopters and opened fire immediately, without provocation.

if that is the case why was the violence only on one ship?

if they wanted to kill everyone they could have they have a massively well armed army

i
IF the actibists did want to provoke a reaction so thee could take the moral highground do you not think they would have sent out twits straight away no matter what happened?

im undecided on this particular incident and up to 19 ppl dead sounds like a massive over reaction but it annoys me when people jump to conclusions either way and the majority jump to the conclusion that israelis the bad guy no matter what

prinz

wes wrote: »

Anyway, you look at it, Israel is in the wrong. There actions are illegal, regardless of who's version of events you believe. They had no right to board that ship, and as such were engaged in piracy, and there is no doubt about that.

They have the right to board that ship. Just like Ireland has the right to board a ship heading our way with intent to break a law of this land.

doncarlos

prinz wrote: »

Well if it's a tweet from someone on board one of the ships it's obviously true :rolleyes:

But it must be true if the Israeli army say it?? :rolleyes:

B0jangles

Al jazeera is broatcasting footage of the soldiers firing while they were rappelling down on to the deck.

justification please?

Euroland

keving wrote: »

No more Israeli goods in my house

+1

SlabMurphy

Lailah Black Rabbit wrote: »

Can I book you?.

Sure, you can try your James Bond Israeli super self defence Krav Maga claptrap on me :rolleyes:

Di0genes wrote: »

Well there's a mature attitude. You do understand that much in the same way not every British person defends their army's behavior 100% many israeli's will be as shocked and disgusted as you are by the IDF actions.

I know of several people of jewish ethnicity who will be joining in the protest in Dublin tonight.

The few Israeli's you talk about who you claim " will be as shocked and disgusted as you are by the IDF actions. " are just a handful of trendies muttering some empty words of condemnation and who will regardless continue to soldier, work and support the zionist state in every way possible. If they have any real dislike of the zionist state they should leave it.

Like I said in my post, I have an issue with zionists ( and that includes christian ones ) not people of the Jewish religion.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

dlofnep

PeakOutput wrote: »

im undecided on this particular incident and up to 19 ppl dead sounds like a massive over reaction but it annoys me when people jump to conclusions either way and the majority jump to the conclusion that israelis the bad guy no matter what

You're not going to be any wiser tomorrow, as the media spin will only grow.

IrishTonyO

Nijmegen wrote: »

Everyone seems to be assuming that Israel is lying and the people on the boats are all saints.

I'd say the majority of them were good for good reasons, but a few likely caused all the trouble. You always get trouble makers at this sort of a gig, only this time instead of smashing up a McDonald's at a G20 meeting they tried their luck smacking an Israeli soldier.

That's a supposition, not fact. But it's likely, in my guess, that Israel didn't send soldiers onto those ships with orders to shoot everything that moved. They're heavy handed, but I think there's two sides to this tale.

Israel has been consistently caught out lying before, so it is not much of an assumption to make. the Israeli ambassador is on Newstalk now saying the people of Gaza have plenty of food and medicine.

Nody

PeakOutput wrote: »

he says that it sounds like the idf were attacked with sticks and knives as they boarded and then shots were fired from twopistols at them which is when they returned fire

however the reports are also saying there is up to 19 dead which does sound excessive

So let me get this straight; a Commando force of elite military forces armed with shock granades, assault helicopters and assault weapons can not handle a bunch of civilians with sticks and possibly knives (the guns are supposidly actually Israeli pistols that their crack elite commandos lost)?

I guess the standard for military service in Israel REALLY has to be low if they require to shot and kill 19 people and shot and wound another 30+ civilians to handle that. I guess this also explains why they in general has problem with civilian killings; their training is clearly subpar including how to aim, use of tactics and alternative methods of attack (tear gas comes to mind).

Euroland

prinz wrote: »

They have the right to board that ship. Just like Ireland has the right to board a ship heading our way with intent to break a law of this land.

The ship was following to Gaza, not to Israel.

Scofflaw

SlabMurphy wrote: »

They should have said their was a gas leak on board the ships to keep the Israeli macho men away. They always get petrified looking when you mention the word gas.

Not appropriate - banned for a week.

moderately,
Scofflaw

IrishTonyO

prinz wrote: »

They have the right to board that ship. Just like Ireland has the right to board a ship heading our way with intent to break a law of this land.

Only in our national waters

prinz

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Only in our national waters

Nope, we can legally extend our jurisdiction if we wish.

Nody

prinz wrote: »

They have the right to board that ship. Just like Ireland has the right to board a ship heading our way with intent to break a law of this land.

No, Ireland would only have a right to board a ship when it is with in the borders of the country (usually 30 nautical miles and expansion can not be uniliterally increased) unless it is in a state of war (which Israel is not no matter what they wish to claim).

Euroland

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Israel has been consistently caught out lying before, so it is not much of an assumption to make. the Israeli ambassador is on Newstalk now saying the people of Gaza have plenty of food and medicine.

He is a lying s**m.

dlofnep

prinz wrote: »

They have the right to board that ship. Just like Ireland has the right to board a ship heading our way with intent to break a law of this land.

Actually, they don't have that right. It was not Israeli waters. They were not breaking any laws. Israel doesn't have the right to control Gaza waters - it is an illegal blockade.

Memnoch

prinz wrote: »

They have the right to board that ship. Just like Ireland has the right to board a ship heading our way with intent to break a law of this land.

Wrong.

They were in INTERNATIONAL WATERS heading for GAZA or GAZIAN WATERS. It is the Israeli's who acted illegally and engaged in an act of piracy followed by murder in INTERNATIONAL WATERS.

The Israeli's had no right to be there so your analogy is wrong if not deliberately designed to deceive.