Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

FlutterinBantam

Foxtrol wrote: »

Yes and if the "Aid ships" were not turned into a PR stunt masquerading as aid ships then the situation wouldnt have occurred and they would have been treated like previous flotilla's.

Look I'm done arguing this point as it just gives more posters ammo to call me an "Israeli apologist" or the like. Out of my mates the ones who get in the most fights on nights out are the ones who go looking for them. If you believe this allows them to put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the other party then fine, I dont. In my eyes the organisers flotilla and those who attacked the commandos have their share of blood on their hands. This in no way exonerates the IDF for the botched operation or Israels continued illegal actions but in my eyes it rather shares out the blame on all those who helped escalate this situation to the point were 9 people lost their lives while leaving many more injured. I might post on this thread again at another point but right now I'm sick of the consistent abuse and misrepresentation I'm receiving.

Par for the course Fox, just bunker in and return fire.

You are up against vested interests and single issue punters here, don't let it distract you.


The truth will always out;)

A Dub in Glasgo

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The truth will always out;)

Not when we are talking about Israel

gandalf

The Aid ships were always a PR stunt given the amount of aid that Gaza needs what they carried would only be a drop in the ocean. I could have told you that from day one.

Its aim was to highlight the Gaza blockade and thanks to the heavy handed illegal actions of the Israeli Government and their armed wing the IDF they have got the message out there. I am sure they did not expect to have people murdered to achieve this PR. Probably expected to have "Israelis turn back peace convoy" headlines for page 3 of Tuesdays broadsheets. But when an American Teen get 4 bullets in the head you get page 1 headlines.

Next time I suggest Israel respects International Law and treats civilians convoys as if they are just that.

karma_

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The truth will always out;)

This is complete nonsense also. The winners write the history books.

A Dub in Glasgo

The (Glasgow) Herald wrote:

Critics of the Gaza flotilla, who point out that activists on board deliberately set sail with the intention of creating an international outcry and provoking a reaction, are absolutely correct. After all, somebody has to do it. Maybe the time has come for those officially tasked with handling affairs of state finally to face up to their responsibilities, even if they fly in the face of Israeli disapproval.

Couldn't have said it better myself

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/guest-commentary/time-to-talk-to-hamas-with-or-without-israel-s-blessing-1.1032579

donkey balls

i have read the majority of the posts here now can someone from the pro israeli side tell me WHY do the israeli govt&idf want to inspect the cargo on the rachel corrie for arms.
now tell me if im wrong was this ship not taken under an IRISH reg&flag and loaded with cargo from a port here in the republic, more than likely under customs supervision and yet we have the israeli govt saying that they want to inspect it for arms?

are they suggesting that Ireland is a rogue state?:rolleyes:

bambooze

Oh well..

The Irish Department of Foreign Affairs has announced that it reached an agreement with the Israeli government by which the 'Rachel Corrie' would dock at Ashdod port, where it would unload the aid meant for Gaza and submit it to inspection, however the crew aboard the vessel refused.

sceptre

donkey balls wrote: »

now tell me if im wrong was this ship not taken under an IRISH reg&flag

Small correction: the boat is registered in Cambodia and has been since 2005 (previously in Latvia, Jamaica and Antigua respectively).

bambooze

donkey balls wrote: »

i have read the majority of the posts here now can someone from the pro israeli side tell me WHY do the israeli govt&idf want to inspect the cargo on the rachel corrie for arms.
now tell me if im wrong was this ship not taken under an IRISH reg&flag and loaded with cargo from a port here in the republic, more than likely under customs supervision and yet we have the israeli govt saying that they want to inspect it for arms?

are they suggesting that Ireland is a rogue state?:rolleyes:

But where has it been since it left ireland? I recall reading some news report a couple of days ago saying they were stopped in libya of all places.. hardly going to inspire confidence.

wes

bambooze wrote: »

Oh well..

The Irish Department of Foreign Affairs has announced that it reached an agreement with the Israeli government by which the 'Rachel Corrie' would dock at Ashdod port, where it would unload the aid meant for Gaza and submit it to inspection, however the crew aboard the vessel refused.

The whole point is to break Israel's siege, so doing what Israel wants kind of misses the point of the exercise. Also, it customary to provide a link .

bambooze

wes wrote: »

The whole point is to break Israel's siege, so doing what Israel wants kind of misses the point of the exercise. Also, it customary to provide a link .

On several places now but here's one..
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/passengers-of-rachel-corrie-reject-agreement-between-israel-and-ireland-1.294173

donkey balls

bambooze wrote: »

But where has it been since it left ireland? I recall reading some news report a couple of days ago saying they were stopped in libya of all places.. hardly going to inspire confidence.

have you got a link to that story? if so can you please post it on another note would you agree for israel& the idf to inspect a ship that left a port here in Ireland and headed straight towards gaza without stopping off at a another port?

sceptre

bambooze wrote: »

But where has it been since it left ireland? I recall reading some news report a couple of days ago saying they were stopped in libya of all places.. hardly going to inspire confidence.

All the reports I've read mentioned that it was off the coast of Libya as part of a progress report, I don't recall any saying it stopped there.

It had a repairs layover in Malta for 48 hours (second link) (that being the reason it's later than the other boats in the first place) though so obviously it stopped there.

droidus

THe Israeli Government press office displaying their usual tact as the bodies lie fresh in their graves in Turkey. Reminiscent of all those Rachel Corrie jokes:

...But the most recent video distributed on Friday by the Israeli government press office (which belongs to the Israeli prime minister's office and is responsible for accrediting foreign journalists) is distasteful and insulting to those killed and injured on the Freedom Flotilla, and quite frankly disturbing - especially since it was made by the Jerusalem Post's deputy managing editor, Caroline Glick, who also moonlights for the American Center for Security Policy in Washington, DC. (Read more about Caroline Glick and her dual role as a pro-Israeli advocate and "credible journalist" in mainstream American and Israeli media here.)...

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2010/06/04/israeli-governments-media-madness

bambooze

donkey balls wrote: »

would you agree for israel& the idf to inspect a ship that left a port here in Ireland and headed straight towards gaza without stopping off at a another port?

Well its more a matter of principle for israel - the blockade must be seen to hold, aid supplies can be trucked in. If the blockade is fails for whatever reason (pressure from the US for example) then the worry for israel is that its open season on iranian weapon shipments to hamas.

Israel obviously cannot trust hamas not to import missiles and if the blockade is ended then israel somehow has to monitor an endless stream of cargo ships from all over the world and somehow find out if any weapons are aboard.

gandalf

bambooze wrote: »

Well its more a matter of principle for israel - the blockade must be seen to hold, aid supplies can be trucked in. If the blockade is fails for whatever reason (pressure from the US for example) then the worry for israel is that its open season on iranian weapon shipments to hamas.

Israel obviously cannot trust hamas not to import missiles and if the blockade is ended then israel somehow has to monitor an endless stream of cargo ships from all over the world and somehow find out if any weapons are aboard.

So much a matter of principle that they break International Law.

bambooze

gandalf wrote: »

So much a matter of principle that they break International Law.

Well you know.. a gaza full of iranian missiles is not exactly a good thing, probably not legal and certainly not peaceful.

Just imagine the consequences.. hamas has long range heavy duty missiles all over gaza and a war breaks out - what do you think israel will do to gaza? I don't think the gaza residents will benefit thats for sure.

Byron85

This was just posted over on an other forum that i'm on.

And this is what the Israeli Embassy's twitter page had to say.

"The Isreali Embassy in Dublin remains closed this moring due to an....(get this!) **ILLEGAL PROTEST** ******and****** **EXTREME VIOLENCE OVERNIGHT** "



Whats so funny you ask?

Well, i was their all night and all we did was sit around, have cans, drank tea, have local D4 businesses bring us coffee, blankets, etc. No violence at all.

On that note, The Israeli started to spread their propaganda, also they started to post False "misleading" Links, videos, and pictures everywhere on the web. (found this on a facebook group status, no examples i'm afraid)

Yea, don't know how stupid they think we all are. ****ing terrorist state indeed

It seems Israel is an expert on Irish law too. Who knew!

IrishTonyO

look what the Israeliglobalpr twitter account is saying

Israel apologises for the death of a US citizen aboard the flotilla, however we must state that the individual was not white

http://twitter.com/IsraelGlobalPR

I assume this is not an offical account

gandalf

bambooze wrote: »

Well you know.. a gaza full of iranian missiles is not exactly a good thing, probably not legal and certainly not peaceful.

Just imagine the consequences.. hamas has long range heavy duty missiles all over gaza and a war breaks out - what do you think israel will do to gaza? I don't think the gaza residents will benefit thats for sure.

And a world where International Law is ignored is a frightening thought as well.

Israel could have stopped these ships within the waters that they have stewartship for and respected International Law. They didn't.

Stop deflecting from the fact that Israel broke International Law.

karma_

IrishTonyO wrote: »

look what the Israeliglobalpr twitter account is saying

Israel apologises for the death of a US citizen aboard the flotilla, however we must state that the individual was not white

http://twitter.com/IsraelGlobalPR

That can't be linked to an official Israeli governmental body surely?

dlofnep

IrishTonyO wrote: »

look what the Israeliglobalpr twitter account is saying

Israel apologises for the death of a US citizen aboard the flotilla, however we must state that the individual was not white

http://twitter.com/IsraelGlobalPR

I assume this is not an offical account

It's obviously a piss-take. Have a read of the rest of the status updates.

Quite hilarious, might I add!

sceptre

And this is what the Israeli Embassy's twitter page had to say.

"The Isreali Embassy in Dublin remains closed this moring due to an....(get this!) **ILLEGAL PROTEST** ******and****** **EXTREME VIOLENCE OVERNIGHT** "

Bleh, I hate misquotes in quote marks.

I just checked.

It said "Due to an illegal violent demonstration the Embassy will not open today as usual."

The meaning is the same (minus the word "EXTREME" and the capitals, mind you) but I still hate misquotes in quote marks. The guy could have checked, he was on the Internet anyway when he posted it and it took me all of 5 seconds to find the Dublin Israeli embassy twitter page.

IrishTonyO wrote: »

look what the Israeliglobalpr twitter account is saying

Israel apologises for the death of a US citizen aboard the flotilla, however we must state that the individual was not white

http://twitter.com/IsraelGlobalPR

I assume this is not an offical account

I think it's safe to make that assumption that it isn't official (ditto with the sister account HamasGlobalPR). Random twitter quotes from randomers are hardly relevant to this discussion, we'd effectively be inviting every bad satirist and tinfoil underpants wearer here if they were.

bambooze

Another video - seems to be a combination of various clips of the incident, including some I hadn't seen before, plus info about some of the people and organisations behind it, particularly the islamic extremist aspects. Make of it what you will, I don't know who is behind the vid although obviously from the israeli point of view but it certainly adds to the evidence on the true mindset of some people on board..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb-G1PlFGIs&feature=player_embedded

[EDIT]I gave quite specific instructions about videos. You link to them.[/EDIT]

gandalf

bambooze wrote: »

Another video - seems to be a combination of various clips of the incident, including some I hadn't seen before, plus info about some of the people and organisations behind it, particularly the islamic extremist aspects. Make of it what you will, I don't know who is behind the vid although obviously from the israeli point of view but it certainly adds to the evidence on the true mindset of some people on board..

But the mindset is irrelevant the only relevant thing is that Israel broke International Law.

Byron85

bambooze wrote: »

certainly adds to the evidence on the true mindset of some people on board..

And I saw a video of people in Ashdod celebrating the actions of the IDF and chanting "kill the Arabs" while assaulting other Israelis who questioned what they were doing. Mindset is irrelevant. I dislike most people. I'm still a moral person though.

A Dub in Glasgo

bambooze wrote: »

Another video - seems to be a combination of various clips of the incident, including some I hadn't seen before, plus info about some of the people and organisations behind it, particularly the islamic extremist aspects. Make of it what you will, I don't know who is behind the vid although obviously from the israeli point of view but it certainly adds to the evidence on the true mindset of some people on board..

Quite the information finder you are... tell me, how long do you wait from receipt of mass email to post here?

bambooze

gandalf wrote: »

But the mindset is irrelevant the only relevant thing is that Israel broke International Law.

A bunch of terrorists heading for a terrorist run state, involved in violent confrontation, are "taken out" and you think the only thing thats relevant is that it was somehow "illegal"? (debatable anyway)

Israel should just have let them through with their jihadist ambitions and fistfulls of cash?

The evidence keeps mounting that there was a group of islamic extremists on that boat and the foreign organisers were too naive to see it. Welcome to the middle east.

gandalf

bambooze wrote: »

A bunch of terrorists heading for a terrorist run state, involved in violent confrontation, are "taken out" and you think the only thing thats relevant is that it was somehow "illegal"? (debatable anyway)

Israel should just have let them through with their jihadist ambitions and fistfulls of cash?

The evidence keeps mounting that there was a group of islamic extremists on that boat and the foreign organisers were too naive to see it. Welcome to the middle east.

But you have already said it was illegal.

bambooze

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Quite the information finder you are... tell me, how long do you wait from receipt of mass email to post here?

Sorry to disappoint you but I found the video on the twitter account posted by sceptre a few posts back..

http://twitter.com/IsraelIE