Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

A Dub in Glasgo

bambooze wrote: »

How do you get to that conclusion from the autopsy report?

In fact I notice no mention of a shot to the TOP of the head as was claimed by the al jazeera journo..

I really must stop reading your ****e

hideous ape

bambooze wrote: »

You're trying to trip me up on a matter of international law which I have said I am not qualified to comment on. Israel is pretty much constantly at war with a dizzying and ever changing array of terrorists organisations, the precise official status with regard to a specific group has never really been of much interest to me. Sorry to disappoint.

I think you'll find that citizens of all democratic societies would know precisely who they were or were not at war with. Maybe instead of defending your country so feverishly on a foreign forum you should use your time on the internet to find out if your country is currently at war or not???

You see it is a quite a crucial piece of information because it affects the legal position & rights involved on the ground or at sea. Remember you are posting on a forum in a country whose citizens are well versed on the tactics and government PR machine Israel is using, conflict zone politics and manouvering, government sponsored murder, weapons caches, warring factions symbols & insignia's, etc. For example, the careful placement of the palestinian keffiyeh on the Israeli weapons video doesn't escape most of us, we know that little trick of association. That entire weapons video is pretty basic propaganda video-making. Scene set with three Turks or Arabs, associate palestinian symbols to objects claimed as weapons and end by focusing on the boat name so everything that was shown is tied to a name that can be remembered and repeated.

Irish citizens know what we are looking at and it stinks of bull****!

Ireland isn't at war with anyone right now but Israel is moving up the list of countries pissing us off;)

bambooze

You see it is a quite a crucial piece of information because it affects the legal position & rights involved on the ground or at sea.

I am aware of that and I know that is why I am being asked so you all can jump on me with a "ah ha! so you admit it was illegal!" or words to that effect - but it makes no difference what I say about it since I am not the government. I'll leave the legal technicalities to others.

Clawdeeus

Aparrantly 6 of them were killed by one soldier, and there are now reports that some of the more radical people on the boat were dragging soldiers to a room, whilst the more moderate tried to stop them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7144099.ece

gandalf

bambooze wrote: »

I am aware of that and I know that is why I am being asked so you all can jump on me with a "ah ha! so you admit it was illegal!" or words to that effect - but it makes no difference what I say about it since I am not the government. I'll leave the legal technicalities to others.

Sounds like you realise that there is no state of war between Israel and Gaza then.

That means the operation was in International Waters and it was illegal.

I also notice that in that article from the Guardian that 3 of the men were shot in the back of the head. That certainly sounds like they were executed.

Fred Cohen

bambooze wrote: »

I am aware of that and I know that is why I am being asked so you all can jump on me with a "ah ha! so you admit it was illegal!" or words to that effect - but it makes no difference what I say about it since I am not the government. I'll leave the legal technicalities to others.

In other words, you are offering opinions on a subject you are not qualified to comment on ?

bambooze

gandalf wrote: »

Sounds like you realise that there is no state of war between Israel and Gaza then.

That means the operation was in International Waters and it was illegal.

I also notice that in that article from the Guardian that 3 of the men were shot in the back of the head. That certainly sounds like they were executed.

You're putting words into my mouth again which is a bit tedious now.

bambooze

Fred Cohen wrote: »

In other words, you are offering opinions on a subject you are not qualified to comment on ?

Which opinions would they be?

gandalf

bambooze wrote: »

You're putting words into my mouth again which is a bit tedious now.

Leave then. Because I will continue to point this out to you on every post you make here.

Israel are not at war with Gaza.

Therefore the blockade is illegal.

Therefore the operation was Illegal and technically an act of war against the nations that the ships are registered with.

wes

Clawdeeus wrote: »

Aparrantly 6 of them were killed by one soldier, and there are now reports that some of the more radical people on the boat were dragging soldiers to a room, whilst the more moderate tried to stop them.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7144099.ece

Yeah, it should be pointed out that the people on the floatilla said that the IDF killed people before boarding, and as such any attacks on the IDF were self defense. Also, the IDF had no right to be on the boat in the first place either, so either way the IDF were in the wrong.

Mr.Micro

Fred Cohen wrote: »

In other words, you are offering opinions on a subject you are not qualified to comment on ?

That is about 280 posts now or so, trying to defend an atrocity as if its perfectly normal and acceptable...maybe in Israel?

Irlandese

Hiya Bambooze.
You certainly seem to have the hounds at your toes as opposed to your heels !
Good lad !
I think that maybe they should read Krauthammers article to get a better perspective on the facts?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/03/AR2010060304287.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns

Scofflaw

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Par for the course Fox, just bunker in and return fire.

You are up against vested interests and single issue punters here, don't let it distract you.


The truth will always out;)

Enough with the flame bait / insults already.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw

Irlandese wrote: »

Hiya Bambooze.
You certainly seem to have the hounds at your toes as opposed to your heels !
Good lad !
I think that maybe they should read Krauthammers article to get a better perspective on the facts?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/03/AR2010060304287.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns

Krauthammer...perspective on the facts. That's hilarious.

seriously, lol,
Scofflaw

bambooze

gandalf wrote: »

Leave then. Because I will continue to point this out to you on every post you make here.

Ok then, have fun debating amongst yourselves and agreeing with each other. :rolleyes:

Irlandese

gandalf wrote: »

Leave then. Because I will continue to point this out to you on every post you make here.

Israel are not at war with Gaza.

Therefore the blockade is illegal.

Therefore the operation was Illegal and technically an act of war against the nations that the ships are registered with.

Wrong, Gandalf.
Krauthammer said it before me so I will just ref his article for you;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/03/AR2010060304287.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns

Mr.Micro

Irlandese wrote: »

Hiya Bambooze.
You certainly seem to have the hounds at your toes as opposed to your heels !
Good lad !
I think that maybe they should read Krauthammers article to get a better perspective on the facts?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/03/AR2010060304287.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns

What a load bloated over heated rubbish. The poor victim is Israel yet again.

Irlandese

Scofflaw wrote: »

Krauthammer...perspective on the facts. That's hilarious.

seriously, lol,
Scofflaw

Glad you are as amused as I am.
Krauthammer's piece is way better at a dialectic level than the increasingly
wayward attacks on bambooze here.
I think I may just say Boker Tov !

Irlandese

Mr.Micro wrote: »

What a load bloated over heated rubbish. The poor victim is Israel yet again.

See what I mean, Scofflaw?
IRMC ! ( I rest my case )

Byron85

bambooze wrote: »

Ok then, have fun debating amongst yourselves and agreeing with each other. :rolleyes:

Can we actually report you to the mods for being a troll or an obvious PR plant?

gandalf

Irlandese wrote: »

Glad you are as amused as I am.
Krauthammer's piece is way better at a dialectic level than the increasingly
wayward attacks on bambooze here.
I think I may just say Boker Tov !

Attack on bambooze. I asked someone who lives in Israel if they are WAR with Gaza and they couldn't answer?

How pathetic is that. Irlandese are you in Israel? If you are can you answer the question.

I mean how messed up is a country where someone who lives there cannot state if they are war with another territory or not?

Mr.Micro

Krauthammer and Israel can dress it up how they like but to treat 1.5 million people in Gaza like s**t year in and out is an international outrage and reprehensible. These people are denied any future even a basic standard of living so the the state of Israel can exist?

Irlandese

bambooze wrote: »

Oh well..

The Irish Department of Foreign Affairs has announced that it reached an agreement with the Israeli government by which the 'Rachel Corrie' would dock at Ashdod port, where it would unload the aid meant for Gaza and submit it to inspection, however the crew aboard the vessel refused.

Thats right, and we all know why, but the truth is a little inconvenient at the moment, for some.
Here is what Krauthammer says on the subject:
"Oh, but weren't the Gaza-bound ships on a mission of humanitarian relief? No. Otherwise they would have accepted Israel's offer to bring their supplies to an Israeli port, be inspected for military materiel and have the rest trucked by Israel into Gaza -- as every week 10,000 tons of food, medicine and other humanitarian supplies are sent by Israel to Gaza.

Why was the offer refused? Because, as organizer Greta Berlin admitted, the flotilla was not about humanitarian relief but about breaking the blockade, i.e., ending Israel's inspection regime, which would mean unlimited shipping into Gaza and thus the unlimited arming of Hamas. "

Now, Bambooze, it is definitely " Boker Tov" :
Keep up the honest work.

Mr.Micro

Irlandese wrote: »

See what I mean, Scofflaw?
IRMC ! ( I rest my case )

That is my opinion on the piece.

gandalf

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/05/the_legal_posit.html

And here is a counter legal position from Craig Murray.

Craig Murray is a former British Ambassador. He is also a former Head of the Maritime Section of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. He negotiated the UK's current maritime boundaries with Ireland, Denmark (Faeroes), Belgium and France, and boundaries of the Channel Islands, Turks and Caicos and British Virgin Islands. He was alternate Head of the UK Delegation to the UN Preparatory Commission on the Law of the Sea. He was Head of the FCO Section of the Embargo Surveillance Centre, enforcing sanctions on Iraq, and directly responsible for clearance of Royal Navy boarding operations in the Persian Gulf.

I would say he knows a bit about maritime law

Irlandese

gandalf wrote: »

Attack on bambooze. I asked someone who lives in Israel if they are WAR with Gaza and they couldn't answer?

How pathetic is that. Irlandese are you in Israel? If you are can you answer the question.

I mean how messed up is a country where someone who lives there cannot state if they are war with another territory or not?

I said "attacks", as in multi-plural ! But he can handle it, easy !
To answer the question, Israel pays for everything in Gaza and is not at war with Gaza, only defending a sovereign country from terrorist attacks. Your questions are amply answered in the Krauthammer piece. Need the ref again?
Sorry, but I really have to get some rest.
Who knows what we will be up to tommorrow ?

Byron85

One man was fatally shot in the back of the head just two feet in front him

How can anyone defend that??

Deep Easterly

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

How can anyone defend that??

Just wait and see...

Irlandese

Mr.Micro wrote: »

That is my opinion on the piece.

How nice, no toilet "humour" this time....agh.......the peace.....

Boker Tov !

gandalf

Irlandese wrote: »

I said "attacks", as in multi-plural ! But he can handle it, easy !
To answer the question, Israel pays for everything in Gaza and is not at war with Gaza, only defending a sovereign country from terrorist attacks. Your questions are amply answered in the Krauthammer piece. Need the ref again?
Sorry, but I really have to get some rest.
Who knows what we will be up to tommorrow ?

They are not at war thank you.

Krauthammer is not an expert on Maritime Law but I have provided a link to one that is.

The blockade is illegal, the operation was illegal and Israel by definition is a Rogue State.

Thanks for at least having the fortitude to admit what bambooze was incapable of saying.