Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

wes

prinz wrote: »

They have the right to board that ship. Just like Ireland has the right to board a ship heading our way with intent to break a law of this land.

No, they have no such right. What they did violated international law, and was an act of piracy, plain and simple. This occured in International waters, they were headed to Gaza, which Israel claim to not be occupying, and as such it is Israel violating the law, and not the flottila.

PeakOutput

Euroland wrote: »

The ship was following to Gaza, not to Israel.

as far as i know ll the water surrouding gaza is israeli waters

also i havnt heard anything about it being an elite commando uniy of anything? has that been said somewhere?

Nijmegen

dlofnep wrote: »

Actually, they don't have that right. It was not Israeli waters. They were not breaking any laws. Israel doesn't have the right to control Gaza waters - it is an illegal blockade.

All blockades are illegal... Like the one around Cuba in the '60's, if you need a parallel example.

Blockade, or let weapons enter Gaza to be fired into Israel? Enie, meanie, miney, mo...

IrishTonyO

prinz wrote: »

Nope, we can legally extend our jurisdiction if we wish.

As I told you before only when security is threatened, can you explain how food, medicine, pencils, cement, building materials are a threat???

Scofflaw

Glenshane Pass wrote: »

No, I didn't mate, you'd love that wouldn't you.
Bye now.

Using the real names of other posters has never been acceptable.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw

This thread is temporarily closed while I do some infracting, some deleting, and probably some banning. It will probably be open in about half an hour - which I suggest you all spend thinking happy thoughts.

moderately,
Scofflaw

[EDIT]Thread reopened for the moment, but frankly, it's already well on its way to being a standard pro-Israeli/anti-Israeli thread, with the usual people in the usual positions. I'll check back in a while, but if I get any more reports from this thread (it's generated 14 complaints and 2 bannings so far this morning) I'll close it again.[/EDIT]

KetchupKid

prinz wrote: »

They have the right to board that ship. Just like Ireland has the right to board a ship heading our way with intent to break a law of this land.

Wrong! The Israeli forces had no right to board a ship in international waters, and the Irish Navy also has no jurisdiction to board a ship in international waters.

How can these terrible actions be condoned! Certainly if the shoe was on the other foot, they'd be Jews crying on every major media outlet in the world.

The facts are:
1. They were in international waters when attacked.
2. They were unarmed. This was confirmed and all passengers went through metal detectors before boarding. If there was one rifle as claimed by the IDF, then why were no members of the IDF shot. If they do produce one rifle, how do we know it wasn't a plant. The only IDF injury was a head injury. If forces unlawfully boarded an unarmed ship I was on, I'd be fighting them off with sticks too!
3. These ships were carrying humanitarian aid and although Israel allow some aid to the Palestinians, it's way too little.

This is an atrocity no matter how you try to defend it.

paulaa

Newstalk have reported that one Irish person has been injured in the raid. No names yet

IrishTonyO

Was on Newstalk news that reports are coming in of one Irish citizen wounded in the attack

prinz

KetchupKid wrote: »

Wrong! The Israeli forces had no right to board a ship in international waters, and the Irish Navy also has no jurisdiction to board a ship in international waters.

The Protective Principle
The protective principle recognizes that a sovereign can adopt a statute that criminalizes conduct that occurs outside of its borders when that conduct affects the sovereign itself. Under that principle a nation can adopt laws that make it a crime to engage in an act that obstructs the function of government or threatens its security as a state without regard to where or by whom the act is committed.

IrishTonyO

prinz wrote: »

The Protective Principle
The protective principle recognizes that a sovereign can adopt a statute that criminalizes conduct that occurs outside of its borders when that conduct affects the sovereign itself. Under that principle a nation can adopt laws that make it a crime to engage in an act that obstructs the function of government or threatens its security as a state without regard to where or by whom the act is committed.

And again I will ask you how food, medicine, building supplies, pencils and chocolate are a threat to the state of Israel?????

karma_

prinz wrote: »

The Protective Principle
The protective principle recognizes that a sovereign can adopt a statute that criminalizes conduct that occurs outside of its borders when that conduct affects the sovereign itself. Under that principle a nation can adopt laws that make it a crime to engage in an act that obstructs the function of government or threatens its security as a state without regard to where or by whom the act is committed.

and how is an unarmed vessel bringing aid to a beleaguered a threat to the state?

Your little more than an apologist. More people killed on that ship than on Bloody Sunday, I can just imagine you defending the paras too.

Nijmegen

IrishTonyO wrote: »

And again I will ask you how food, medicine, building supplies, pencils and chocolate are a threat to the state of Israel?????

They're not.

But a blockade cannot work if some ships that say they carry one thing are allowed in and others not.

They must all go through a control point. In this case, an Israeli port.

All ships must go through this the same as we all must go through airport security, even though only one in millions and millions of us will carry a weapon.

prinz

IrishTonyO wrote: »

And again I will ask you how food, medicine, building supplies, pencils and chocolate are a threat to the state of Israel?????

Israel is maintaining a blockade. It's irrelevant what is on board. The Israelis have made clear that the ships should have docked in Israel and unloaded their cargo for transportation to Gaza via checkpoints.

karma_ wrote: »

and how is an unarmed vessel bringing aid to a beleaguered a threat to the state?

As above, not to mention that the UN has reported that Hamas have been helping themselves to aid intended for the unfortunate Gazan population. Feed and cloth the 'soldiers' first seems to be the order of the day. No regard for you average Gazan on their part either.

karma_ wrote: »

More people killed on that ship than on Bloody Sunday, I can just imagine you defending the paras too.

:rolleyes:

IrishTonyO

Nijmegen wrote: »

They're not.

But a blockade cannot work if some ships that say they carry one thing are allowed in and others not.

They must all go through a control point. In this case, an Israeli port.

All ships must go through this the same as we all must go through airport security, even though only one in millions and millions of us will carry a weapon.

I would have no problem with that if Israel let all Aid in, but it doesn't it limits it, as I have said before the UN says the amount of Aid Israel lets through is about 25% of what is needed. Also Israel bombs and destroy homes in Gaza and will not allow building materials in, so they can rebuild. Cement is on the banned list!!!

Villain

Sad state of affairs but at least the international community will unite agianst Israel now, I just hope Obama takes a strong stance.

A boycott of anything coming from Israel should be started. I mean come on in International waters they boarded an Aid Flotilla they have gone too far this time.

baldbear

Hamas have called for a day of rage in revenge.They will use this as a massive PR tool. This is a massive mistake from israel. Violence breeds violence and civilians will be the ones to suffer. The good people who actually were trying to help in distributing aid are going to be tarnished by others actions.
I wonder who the Irish person injured was. Maybe some info. here?
http://oceanfm.ie/news/2010/05/31/fears-for-donegal-man-in-gaza-bound-flotilla/

arybvtcw0eolkf

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/event.php?eid=120606987976328&ref=mf

Usual invitation, I'll be there armed with nothing more dangerous as a camera - big good looking ginger lad!.

Jaap

karma_ wrote: »

and how is an unarmed vessel bringing aid to a beleaguered a threat to the state?

Your little more than an apologist. More people killed on that ship than on Bloody Sunday, I can just imagine you defending the paras too.

How do you know if the vessel was unarmed??? Were you on it???

And bringing Northern Ireland issues in to the discussion...what is that about??? Do you want to talk about mass murders by the IRA...or UDA??? We can drag up NI's past if you want!!!

I don't think anybody will get to the truth about what went on today with these murders...could be a propaganda stunt for the Palestines...might not be!!!

wayne0308

I was saying to myself last night as I seen pictures of the convoy leaving that this was not going to end well and indeed I woke up this morning and seen the news. Very sad and I hope the death toll does not rise further.

I've heard the Israeli statements that they were shot at and attacked etc. and I don't believe a word of it. Others have said that someone tried to grab a gun from one of the commando's, this is a bit more believable. I can only hope that the truth of this matter can be found out quickly.

alastair

prinz wrote: »

Israel is maintaining a blockade. It's irrelevant what is on board.

For any recourse to the Protective Principle to have any merit in law, Israel would need to establish that the aid was indeed a threat - which it hasn't (and can't tbh). The blockade is illegal, and the flotilla a legal endeavour, as defined by universally understood laws.

Selected

Scofflaw wrote: »

Not appropriate - banned for a week.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Cordially obtuse.

Glenshane Pass

Lailah Black Rabbit wrote: »

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/event.php?eid=120606987976328&ref=mf

Usual invitation, I'll be there armed with nothing more dangerous as a camera - big good looking ginger lad!.

Don't forget your Israeli flag! Just joking buddy :P

Mark Regev was on Al Jazeera, basically condemning the aid participants as terrorist supporters.

IrishTonyO

Brian Cowen has called for an international independent enquiry into the attack and questioned Israel boarding vessels in International Waters

dlofnep

Nijmegen wrote: »

All blockades are illegal... Like the one around Cuba in the '60's, if you need a parallel example.

Blockade, or let weapons enter Gaza to be fired into Israel? Enie, meanie, miney, mo...

What weapons? It was a humanitarian aid convoy. What right did Israel have to block it?

Nijmegen

dlofnep wrote: »

What weapons? It was a humanitarian aid convoy. What right did Israel have to block it?

As stated and repeated: A blockade must always stop all vessels and bring them to control points. Otherwise, it's a leaky sive and not worth the effort.

karma_

Jaap wrote: »

And bringing Northern Ireland issues in to the discussion...what is that about??? Do you want to talk about mass murders by the IRA...or UDA??? We can drag up NI's past if you want!!!

I don't think anybody will get to the truth about what went on today with these murders...could be a propaganda stunt for the Palestines...might not be!!!

It's called drawing a parallel.

Zulu

dlofnep wrote: »

What weapons? It was a humanitarian aid convoy. What right did Israel have to block it?

They could tape a fork to the end of the broom handle & throw it in the direction of the border.

wes

Nijmegen wrote: »

As stated and repeated: A blockade must always stop all vessels and bring them to control points. Otherwise, it's a leaky sive and not worth the effort.

The siege is illegal, as stated and repeated several times. Israel is in the wrong, no matter the amount of obfuscation that is thrown out.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Glenshane Pass wrote: »

Don't forget your Israeli flag! Just joking buddy :P
.

It'll be under my union jack boxer's

(sorry the earlier confusion, glad its been cleared up)