Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

dlofnep

Jakkass wrote: »

Israel has no comparison to South Africa. Palestinians had free movement within the State of Israel before 2002 as I've just said. The deterioration this situation is a result of a deterioration of trust. This is down to those Palestinians who attacked Israel as well as the Israeli's being overly suspicious.

I was referring to Israel supplying an apartheid South Africa with nuclear weapons. You obviously missed that memo.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

I don't want to go entirely off-topic. This is in context to monitoring of aid/weapons going to and from Israel. What's good for the goose and all that..

gandalf

Laminations wrote: »

If you're referring to me I've said that the assault was illegal and if this was the only issue of this thread it should have been closed eons ago as it's not debatable, Israel were 100% in the wrong. But the conflict is still a two sided conflict and the side takers have perpetuated this thread as they do the conflict itself.

Actually I wasn't and you have engaged here in a very intelligent fashion and I agree with you 100% that the conflict is the fault of both sides and is perpetuated because of the 2 sides.

As for the thread I disagree with you. I have learnt a hell of a lot because of this thread and I am still learning from it.

It has been a very useful exercise for a lot of us here including communicating with our Israeli spokesmen

philologos

Nodin wrote: »

We can discuss that here.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055828565

We could, but we could also discuss the Israel - Palestine conflict on its own merits rather than invoking other situations with differing circumstances.

Laminations

alastair wrote: »

It's pretty hard to see how activism to end a blockade on aid (deemed illegal by the UN no less) perpetuates any hatred or conflict, if I'm being honest. The 'sides' in this particular debate have Israel on one side, and eh, pretty much everyone else on the other. Given that you can either support the restrictions on aid, or oppose them, it's pretty hard to sit on the fence.

I'm not sitting on any fence, I oppose the blockade and occupation but this doesn't make me pro Palestinian because I can't support either side as both have committed atrocitites.

Someone said the blockade won't end the terrorism. I agreed with this and added that terrorism won't stop the blockade. What part of that statement do you disagree with?

alastair

Laminations wrote: »

Someone said the blockade won't end the terrorism. I agreed with this and added that terrorism won't stop the blockade. What part of that statement do you disagree with?

I don't disagree with it, but it's besides the point - No-one has suggested that terrorism would end the blockade - they've disputed the rationale for the blockade as presented by Israel, and supported an endeavor to undermine/break that blockade. There's no need to extend the context into taking sides on the broader conflict - I doubt there's much unanimity amongst the flotilla people as to the possible strategies for ending the broader conflict - let alone here - so the 'taking sides' thing is well off the point.

gandalf

Laminations wrote: »

Someone said the blockade won't end the terrorism. I agreed with this and added that terrorism won't stop the blockade. What part of that statement do you disagree with?

I agree with both statements.

However you have to agree with me that the blockade will drive more people towards those who practice terrorism. Far from being a mechanism to tackle extremism it is a catalyst to more getting involved in terrorism.

With regard to the illegal assault on the convoy earlier this week it has turned more people and countries that Israel would have counted as sympathetic to them against them and provided a massive PR coup to their enemies.

The policy of illegal blockade is terminally damaged, lets hope the Israeli authorities end it soon and save the people of Gaza any more suffering.

Scofflaw

glaston wrote: »

I agree with you on this.

However the plight of people in Gaza is due to the actions of both Israel and Hamas.

Israeli pulls its citizens out of Gaza and the the rocket attacks only intensify.

glaston banned for a week for a hugely off-topic video post. Please follow the mod warnings in effect, people.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Byron85

Following the take over of the vessel, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu issued a statement saying: 'Forces used the same procedures for Monday's flotilla and Saturday's sailing but was met by a different response.
'On today's ship and in five of the six vessels in the previous flotilla, (their boarding) procedure ended without casualties.
'The only difference was with one ship where extremist Islamic activists, supporters of terrorism, waited for our troops on the deck with axes and knives.'

I must give it to the Israelis, they're quite good at twisting the facts to suit themselves. They used the same procedures today as they did on Monday?? I didn't realise that boarding a ship in broad daylight in Palestinian waters without helicopters was the exact same procedure as the boarding that took place on Monday. Then again, what do we know eh? :rolleyes:

sceptre

Netanyahu needs a new speechwriter. The better approach would have been "Monday didn't go well though we're not admitting blame. We used a different approach today and it went OK".

You mightn't agree with the sentiment there but it would have been a better statement. The MV Rachel Corrie people effectively claimed to be an unstoppable force, the IDF claimed to be an immovable object - while science is still out on whether these two things can exist in one universe and which would win given that there wasn't a practical demonstration today, at least no-one got shot this morning.

Any confirmation on whether the 550 tonnes of cement (for example) on board the Corrie will actually be allowed through to Gaza from Ashdod, given the shifting sands of statements on allowing the aid through versus allowing the allowed aid through?

dlofnep

If they let the cement through, I'd be very surprised.

Ben Hadad

Ironically the Gaza flotilla and the founders of Israel have alot in common.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Exodus

Exodus 1947 was a ship that carried Jewish emigrants, that left France on July 11, 1947, with the intent of taking its passengers to Mandate Palestine. Most of the emigrants were Holocaust survivor refugees, who had no legal immigration certificates to Palestine. Following wide media coverage, the British Royal Navy seized the ship, and deported all its passengers back to Europe.

A telegram written by Jewish leaders of the camps on 20 October 1947 makes clear the wishes and determination of the refugees to find a home in Palestine.

"Nothing will deter us from Palestine. Which jail we go to is up to you

Run_to_da_hills

dlofnep wrote: »

If they let the cement through, I'd be very surprised.

Not a hope, ill, it will be impounded and utilised in the construction of more illegal walls.

Wasn't Irish cement a player in the Palestinian wall in the first place.

ZakaiNaaman

How are these Peaceful Aid ships if they were armed?

Run_to_da_hills

ZakaiNaaman wrote: »

How are these Peaceful Aid ships if they were armed?

You are looking at too much Israeli propaganda, :rolleyes:

dlofnep

ZakaiNaaman wrote: »

How are these Peaceful Aid ships if they were armed?

Armed with what exactly? There was nothing onboard, that would not otherwise be onboard a ship of that size.

ZakaiNaaman

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You are looking at too much Israeli propaganda, :rolleyes:

I have seen video's man of Arabs attacking IDF soliders with poles and I'll be happy to provide you with links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl4kmiOCjQE

A Dub in Glasgo

ZakaiNaaman wrote: »

How are these Peaceful Aid ships if they were armed?

Mork calling Orson

IrishTonyO

ZakaiNaaman wrote: »

I have seen video's man of Arabs attacking IDF soliders with poles and I'll be happy to provide you with links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl4kmiOCjQE

maybe you should read through the thread first.

ZakaiNaaman

3,600 replies and you want me to read through them? Just tell me who here supports Israel and wy is there so much Anti Semitism here. Your all acting like Nazi's.

youcrazyjesus!

Zakai, you devalue anti-Semitism and make it difficult to identify true bigots by slandering people who are protesting because they have a conscience. It does nobody any service.

You referred in another thread to "these Arabs". I suggest you look at yourself in the mirror before making charges.

ZakaiNaaman

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Zakai, you devalue anti-Semitism and make it difficult to identify true bigots by slandering people who are protesting because they have a conscience. It does nobody any service.

You referred in another thread to "these Arabs". I suggest you look at yourself in the mirror before making charges.

Whats wrong with calling an Arab an Arab?

Nodin

ZakaiNaaman wrote: »

3,600 replies and you want me to read through them? Just tell me who here supports Israel and wy is there so much Anti Semitism here. Your all acting like Nazi's.

If you see anti-semitic remarks, report the post. O, and quote them to back up your accusation.

How does one 'act like a nazi', btw?

youcrazyjesus!

ZakaiNaaman wrote: »

Whats wrong with calling an Arab an Arab?

If I said "these Jews" what would you say?

ZakaiNaaman

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

If I said "these Jews" what would you say?

Jews aren't a race of people, anyone can become Jewish because it's a religion.

Run_to_da_hills

ZakaiNaaman wrote: »

I have seen video's man of Arabs attacking IDF soliders with poles and I'll be happy to provide you with links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl4kmiOCjQE

So, they were only defending themselves and their property against unauthorised pirates in international waters of which they were entitled to.

the_syco

ZakaiNaaman wrote: »

3,600 replies and you want me to read through them? Just tell me who here supports Israel and wy is there so much Anti Semitism here. Your all acting like Nazi's.

I support Israel, but the way this attack was handled leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Someone f**ked up in the IDF intelligence. Badly.

youcrazyjesus!

ZakaiNaaman wrote: »

Jews aren't a race of people, anyone can become Jewish because it's a religion.

It's not the point.

Macha

ZakaiNaaman wrote: »

3,600 replies and you want me to read through them? Just tell me who here supports Israel and wy is there so much Anti Semitism here. Your all acting like Nazi's.

If you haven't read the thread, how can you know any of the above?

Anti-Zionism does not equal anti-Semitism

ZakaiNaaman

taconnol wrote: »

If you haven't read the thread, how can you know any of the above?

Anti-Zionism does not equal anti-Semitism

Yes it does, because if you are against The Zionist then you refuse The Jews a homeland, thus you are an anti Semite. A Zionist is A Jew that believes in A Jewish Homeland. Return to Zion. Get it?

Mr.Micro

ZakaiNaaman wrote: »

3,600 replies and you want me to read through them? Just tell me who here supports Israel and wy is there so much Anti Semitism here. Your all acting like Nazi's.

Ah grow up ..... this forum is for thinking people, just because posters oppose the Israeli outrage they are Nazis.