Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

gandalf

Irlandese wrote: »

Sorry, away again straight after last post.
Agh....you know airsoft too !
I have been out at HRTA in Swords a few times for fun and practice but never at paintball, so may very well be wrong to give benefit of doubt on that one. (That is of course evasion speak for "made a right bolli@ of that one "
Now have to read the others to see where replies warranted.
No rest for the wicked........

Well if you have been at HRTA there is a good chance we could have met so

Irlandese

gandalf wrote: »

One thing if he is a member of S13 I would doubt very much that he would bad mouth them to someone outside that sphere as I believe most members of any active military unit would not criticise their comrades.

So basically your friend is saying his superiors made a "dogs bollix" of the planning.

What about his opinion on carrying out the operation in International Waters & at night?

Again because of the whole International Waters issue it can be argued that the people on the boat had a right to defend themselves. I believe they were mistaken as they were taking on troops who are normally used in combat operations like assassinations. Then again a Libyan crew fought back against Somali Pirates and were hailed heroes.

Yup, the politicos made the mess but they are regular seal-type commandos, not assassination squads by training or general purpose, although they do do take-outs
on occasion. Sounds too cynical said that way. They are professionals in a bad world.
I am glad I do not have their job.

Iwasfrozen

halkar wrote: »

Would you support Iran if Iran attack the Israeli submarines close to her coastlines while they are in international waters? It would be better if Iran prevents any incident before these subs put in use.

Obvious strawman is obvious. Stay on-topic please.

ejmaztec

Those nice Iranians, out of the goodness of their hearts, have offered to escort future aid convoys.:eek:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/06/gaza-blockade-iran-aid-convoy
Gaza blockade: Iran offers escort to next aid convoy

Hojjatoleslam Ali Shirazi, an aide to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, pledged Tehran would send Revolutionary Guard units to escort Gaza aid convoys. Photograph: Reuters
Iran has warned that it could send Revolutionary Guard naval units to escort humanitarian aid convoys seeking to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza – a move that would certainly be challenged by Israel.
...
George Galloway, the founder of Viva Palestina, announced in London that two simultaneous convoys "one by land via Egypt and the other by sea" would set out in September to break the Gaza blockade. The sea convoy of up to 60 ships will travel around the Mediterranean gathering ships, cargo and volunteers.

[EDIT]Do not copy and paste entire articles. Copy a chunk, and link the rest.[/EDIT]

Irlandese

Memnoch wrote: »

Ah well, you're welcome to that misguided opinion, but if you don't have any evidence to base that on, it would seem to be "evidence" of bias on your behalf.

Here is your answer, in spades, friend:
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/quickly+truth+sacrificed+propaganda/3117106/story.html

"How quickly the truth is sacrificed for propaganda

The UN Human Rights Council condemned Israel for its Gaza raid, but abuses abound in the countries backing the resolution

By Stephen Hume, Vancouver Sun June 5, 2010



Nobody disputes that the botched Israeli commando raid on a self-described "humanitarian aid convoy" to Gaza is a public relations disaster.

But much of the subsequent outrage smells more of opportunistic political theatre than genuine concern for human rights abuses.

Both sides know that the real struggle is to command the field of public opinion and so the important battles are now waged with cellphone videos, blogs and YouTube posts.

It took only minutes for what happened on the Turkish ship to play out. Then it shifted online where competing images sought to frame the incident either as a massacre of innocents or as a bloodthirsty mob of purportedly peaceful humanitarian aid workers attacking security forces.

...

I could go on but don't have sufficient space. However, when interest groups in Canada reflexively cite the UN Human Rights Council as an authority that grants permission for anti-Israel sentiments, remember this context -- the council is composed of some of the cruellest, most blood-soaked abusers of human rights on the planet.

By what logic do these states -- or those who unquestioningly align themselves with the values they represent -- have moral authority to condemn anyone?

shume@islandnet.com
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun"

[EDIT]You see the bit at the bottom, that says "© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun"? That's there to remind you not to copy and paste entire articles. Copy a chunk, and link the rest.[/EDIT]

Mr.Micro

halkar wrote: »

Would you support Iran if Iran attack the Israeli submarines close to her coastlines while they are in international waters? It would be better if Iran prevents any incident before these subs put in use.

Of course Israel would be understanding of such a move, not happy, but could not complain since it would do ( has this past week) the same itself. As a country flouting any Laws of the sea then it cannot expect other nations to observe them either, in this case Iran.

Macha

Iran getting involved would be a nightmare from anyone's point of view.

But the rest of the article pointing out the wrongs of other countries is completely irrelevant. No country's hands are bloodless. That doesn't mean what Israel's doing cannot be condemned. More muddying of the waters.

gandalf

ejmaztec wrote: »

Those nice Iranians, out of the goodness of their hearts, have offered to escort future aid convoys.:eek:

The Iranian Navy is all but obsolete and would be no match for the Israelis, its a bit of International media cock waving probably for the benefit of the Turks.

Mr.Micro

taconnol wrote: »

Iran getting involved would be a nightmare from anyone's point of view.

But the rest of the article pointing out the wrongs of other countries is completely irrelevant. No country's hands are bloodless. That doesn't mean what Israel's doing cannot be condemned. More muddying of the waters.

Of course Iran might be only too happy to stir trouble in this case and make things a lot worse.

Irlandese

gandalf wrote: »

The Iranian Navy is all but obsolete and would be no match for the Israelis, its a bit of International media cock waving probably for the benefit of the Turks.

Yes, but what if the North Koreans also sent in their diesel mini-subs to help them??
Now I know I am off topic.................

Manic Moran

And I'd like to know exactly what kind of helicopter can spray cold seawater onto anything. I've never heard of a helicopter being equiped with pumps that could do that. I know the Israelis have some CH-53s for fighting fires but they just dump water down in one go, not pump it for 3 hours or whatever these people are trying to say.

For the record, such helicopter attachments do exist. From videos, it seems to be able to spray water or foam about 50-75 yards.



However, I make no statements as to if the Israelis have them, or if they were used.

Israel could legally stop them in Gazan waters or Israeli waters, not elsewhere

That is one of those points of contention which have not been definitively determined. Both sides lawyers agree that under certain circumstances, being situated in international waters provide no immunity from being boarded. The point of dispute is whether those circumstances were in effect, a situation which has not yet been adjudicated upon by competent authority.

NTM

Irlandese

Manic Moran wrote: »

For the record, such helicopter attachments do exist. From videos, it seems to be able to spray water or foam about 50-75 yards.



However, I make no statements as to if the Israelis have them, or if they were used.



That is one of those points of contention which have not been definitively determined. Both sides lawyers agree that under certain circumstances, being situated in international waters provide no immunity from being boarded. The point of dispute is whether those circumstances were in effect, a situation which has not yet been adjudicated upon by competent authority.

NTM

No, that is definitely a helicopter with a paintball gun .........................

Memnoch

Irlandese wrote: »

Here is your answer, in spades, friend:
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/quickly+truth+sacrificed+propaganda/3117106/story.html
[EDIT]You see the bit at the bottom, that says "© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun"? That's there to remind you not to copy and paste entire articles. Copy a chunk, and link the rest.[/EDIT]

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense to me.

How does an opinion piece in a Canadian tabloid serve as evidence that the activists were manipulative? Also the link to the article doesn't seem to work for me. So you'll need to post the relevant paragraph or two that you claim as evidence.

jill_valentine

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Thats a matter for the politicians and senior military commanders though, you can't blame the soldiers for the orders that they were given.

Few here actually have though. One group of people are objecting to the use of soldiers to achieve Israel's end in the first place, the other keep asking what anybody expected soldiers to do under the circumstances - essentially two separate arguments that don't really overlap. I can't help feeling that in at least some cases, it's a quite deliberate attempt to knock the conversation off course.

Johnboy1951

The German-Jewish organization Jewish Voice for Peace in the Middle East is preparing a Jewish flotilla to the Gaza Strip. "We intend to leave around July," a member of the organization, Kate Leitrer, said to Ynet. "We have one small craft so far, in which there will be between 12 and 16 people, mostly Jews."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3899915,00.html

alastair

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They may have been in international waters but their intention to break Israeli law was evident. It was better that Israel prevented the incident from happening in the first place rather then waiting untill they actually did break the law.

Thankfully Israel was able to get in first and break the law (and kill 9 people in the process) in order to stop the activists breaking the law the following morning by bringing aid into territorial waters and not stopping when asked. At least some have their priorities right - heaven forbid Hamas get their hands on pencils and cement. :rolleyes:

wes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Israel is a democracy and to say it isn't is disingenuous.

And many countrys proclaim a state religion (UK for instance) or that the ethos of their state is based on one religion or another.

Even the Irish constitution for instance is riddled with references to Christianity in the preamble

Sorry, but Israel is not a democracy, and we are going a bit beyond mere references to Religion when it comes to Israel. Here in Ireland we are all Irish citizens, regardless of Religion or race.

However, in Israel that isn't the case:
Why there are no ‘Israelis’ in the Jewish State

**EDIT**
Also, if you want to still talk about this its probably better to take it to this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055828565&page=56
**END EDIT**

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Those peace deals were only made with Jordan after they were defeated in the 6 day war and with Egypt after they were defeated in the Yom Kippur war. Those arab states only dealt with Israel after they were beaten, they did not gift peace to Israel.

Irrelevant to the point I was making. The fact is that those peace deals exists, and as such Israel not surrounded by people trying to destroy them.

wes

mossyc123 wrote: »

Not to be too pedantic but i think Hyperbolic is the word your looking for Wes.

It was a spelling mistake.....

mossyc123 wrote: »

And it's not. History has taught Israel not to trust any of its neighbours...that's why they are so belligerent, they must be that way to survive.

I could easily say the same of Israel as well btw. If Israel want to continue this idiotic path, the that is there choice.

paulaa

http://m.guardian.co.uk/?id=102202&story=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/06/israel-youtube-gaza-flotilla

how cheap life is in Israel !! This is absolutely disgusting to mock those
those people who died on the ship.

Irlandese

Memnoch wrote: »

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense to me.

How does an opinion piece in a Canadian tabloid serve as evidence that the activists were manipulative? Also the link to the article doesn't seem to work for me. So you'll need to post the relevant paragraph or two that you claim as evidence.

No worries.
But, with respect, I feel that this thread has run it's course, at least for me and I will now transfer over to the other thread here on politics, "Solidarity with Israelis ", which is opening up a lot of interesting discussions on areas that I feel offer more hope for possible solutions etc.
Regards to all here.

BluePlanet

As we all know Israel gets loads of weapons from USA.
I just read an article comparing the US reaction to a US citizen being killed by a foreign entity, back in 1980's versus that reaction today.

The author went on to state what actions the Obama admin can do.
And one of them is finding out if Israel has infact violated the Arms Export Control Act (AECA).
As we know Israel receives huge military and political support from the US.

The AECA says that weapons provided by the USA can only be used by foreign countries for "internal security" or "self-defense". But since Israel commited this atrocity in International Waters, they may have violated this law.

This provides a legal route for the Americans to put manners on Israel, or cease supplying them.

Fat chance i know.

gandalf

Excellent article in the UK Independent today from the Queen of Jordan.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/queen-rania-of-jordan-hardliners-are-now-the-face-of-israel-1993157.html

What do chocolate, cookies, A4 paper, potato chips, cumin, toys, jelly, nuts, dried fruit, nutmeg, and goats have in common? It's a tricky one. If you're a moderate, they have nothing in common. But if you are a hard-line Israeli politician, they are all potentially dangerous goods that could threaten Israel's security. It seems that side of the political spectrum has won the argument, as all the above are items that the Israeli government has prohibited from entering Gaza.

The most pertinent quote from it is this.

Speaking as a moderate, I fear if the tides don't turn in our region, moderation will be amongst the most painful casualties of continued aggression and hardline policies. As someone who lived through the late King Hussein's fight for peace, until his very last breath, and watches his son, my husband, King Abdullah, continue that fight, it actually breaks my heart to see us moving further and further away from peace.

So basically far from making Israel a safer place actions like the crime perpetuated last Monday actually create the perfect breathing ground for more extremism and more death and create more enemies for the Israeli population. The Hawkish Neo Con government that sits in Power in Israel by its actions are isolating them among the international community. Regime change is not only needed in Gaza it is needed within the state of Israel.

Run_to_da_hills

Badly beaten Irish / Palistinian citizen gives his account.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeUhwELoKWo&feature=player_embedded

Memnoch

Memnoch wrote: »

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense to me.

How does an opinion piece in a Canadian tabloid serve as evidence that the activists were manipulative? Also the link to the article doesn't seem to work for me. So you'll need to post the relevant paragraph or two that you claim as evidence.

It doesn't.

It's just an article on blatant hypocrisy and how to activists,some human rights abuses are to be ignored in favour of others..

The resolution condemning Israel was proposed by Pakistan and Sudan.
In Sudan, militias backed by the Islamist government in Khartoum have waged a genocidal campaign against indigenous non-Muslim African tribes in its Darfur region, displacing 2.7 million in a campaign of rape and looting while butchering an estimated 300,000 people. In terms of state-sanctioned suffering, this dwarfs the entire Arab-Israeli conflict reaching all the way back to 1945 and renders the conflict in Gaza with its 1,400 casualties minuscule.
In Pakistan, according to the latest assessment from Amnesty International, "security forces used indiscriminate and disproportionate force and carried out suspected extrajudicial executions; civilians faced severe abuses, including arbitrary arrest and detention; torture and other ill-treatment; a near total absence of judicial process; stringent restrictions on freedom of expression and assembly; religious and ethnic discrimination; violence and discrimination against women and girls; violence against minorities."
Of the 47 nations that comprise the UN Human Rights Council, the majority are listed by Amnesty International as places where state-sanctioned human rights abuses are routine:

Read more:
The resolution condemning Israel was proposed by Pakistan and Sudan.
In Sudan, militias backed by the Islamist government in Khartoum have waged a genocidal campaign against indigenous non-Muslim African tribes in its Darfur region, displacing 2.7 million in a campaign of rape and looting while butchering an estimated 300,000 people. In terms of state-sanctioned suffering, this dwarfs the entire Arab-Israeli conflict reaching all the way back to 1945 and renders the conflict in Gaza with its 1,400 casualties minuscule.
In Pakistan, according to the latest assessment from Amnesty International, "security forces used indiscriminate and disproportionate force and carried out suspected extrajudicial executions; civilians faced severe abuses, including arbitrary arrest and detention; torture and other ill-treatment; a near total absence of judicial process; stringent restrictions on freedom of expression and assembly; religious and ethnic discrimination; violence and discrimination against women and girls; violence against minorities."
Of the 47 nations that comprise the UN Human Rights Council, the majority are listed by Amnesty International as places where state-sanctioned human rights abuses are routine:

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/quickly+truth+sacrificed+propaganda/3117106/story.html#ixzz0qA7TKEdl

Excerpt copyright Vancouver sun

No flotilla on the way to Darfur though.

Two weeks ago, as it was pulling out of Jebel Marra because of security concerns, Medecins du Monde reported that 100,000 people had been displaced. The Sudanese army now controls the strategic mountainous region and has prevented the U.N. peacekeeping mission from accessing the region to assess the humanitarian effect of the offensive.
The appalling silence of international diplomats pushing the Doha process only emboldens a government that already acts as though it can get away with murder. Absent strong international condemnation, the government is permitted to carry on with its peace negotiations in Doha while simultaneously bombing its citizens in Darfur. Civilians in Darfur would not be misguided to ask why an agreement in Doha is worth the paper on which it is printed. Speaking to journalists after his most recent trip to the region, U.S. Special Envoy Gration noted an urgency of “making sure that the conditions in Darfur are reversed – that people can have a brighter future, that they can have the opportunity to return or to stay in an urbanized environment.” There was no mention of the government offensive underway as he spoke, and the characterization of teeming camps wholly dependent on aid as ‘an urbanized environment’ was a gross misrepresentation.

More here


Based on that ,and notwithstanding the wrongness of Israels actions,One can't help wonder why the flotilla's aren't sailing up the Nile to somewhere something a 100,000 times worse is happening.


Is it because they only have eyes for the Israeli bogey man as relatively small as his crimes are comparatively?


It seems like priorities are up the swannee if you ask me.


Activists approach to Israel would be better spent on goods boycots as thats where it hurts.
Those guys aren't for turning when they have nukes.
It's the same with North Korea.
Theres nothing can be done when they have nukes.

wes

As someone who is very much against what Sudan is doing in Darfur (see my signature), I think it only fair to point out that there is plenty of activism against Sudan, and that I find the concern for Darfur in this thread to be hugely disingenuous. Its seem clear to me people bringing up Darfur are using it as a defense for Israel, and there is no genuine concern for the people there.

Now, to take a look at the people involved in trying to help Darfur, you can look here:
http://www.savedarfur.org/

Also, it should be pointed out that Sudan is currently under UN sanction:
http://www.dfat.gov.au/un/unsc_sanctions/sudan.html

Meanwhile, for Israel, they are currently under no UN sanctions, and hence why people feel they need to take things into there own hands, as Western governments are letting Israel get away with whatever they please, and in the case of Sudan, there are efforts by Western governments, as well as activists to punish Sudan for its crimes.

Also, if you look at the above site, you will learn about the various successes against Sudan in the US congress, but you will find no such successes when it comes to Israel.

Now, personally I find it repugnant, that anyone would use the situation in Darfur to try and smear the activists, and somehow claim there is no activism against Sudan, when there is plenty of it.

Scofflaw

Deleted User wrote: »

It doesn't.

It's just an article on blatant hypocrisy and how to activists,some human rights abuses are to be ignored in favour of others..
Excerpt copyright Vancouver sun

No flotilla on the way to Darfur though.

More here


Based on that ,and notwithstanding the wrongness of Israels actions,One can't help wonder why the flotilla's aren't sailing up the Nile to somewhere something a 100,000 times worse is happening.


Is it because they only have eyes for the Israeli bogey man as relatively small as his crimes are comparatively?


It seems like priorities are up the swannee if you ask me.


Activists approach to Israel would be better spent on goods boycots as thats where it hurts.
Those guys aren't for turning when they have nukes.
It's the same with North Korea.
Theres nothing can be done when they have nukes.


[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[/COLOR][/LEFT]

Again, that's completely irrelevant to the rights and wrongs of what Israel is doing. Nor is there any requirement that the countries who accuse Israel of doing wrong in this case don't have unspotted histories themselves.

You can't justify murder by any combination of saying "other people do it too", "he was a bad person", and "worse things happen".

regards,
Scofflaw

Memnoch

Deleted User wrote: »

It doesn't.

It's just an article on blatant hypocrisy and how to activists,some human rights abuses are to be ignored in favour of others..
Excerpt copyright Vancouver sun

No flotilla on the way to Darfur though....

This endless whataboutry is nonsensical and pointless.

Yes there are innumerable atrocities going on around the world. Yes we should be doing our best to address them.

The list of issues that need addressing is endless. Even WITHIN western countries there are huge social issues.

But people have limited ability, you can only do so much. You can't as an individual support and fight for every single worthy cause out there on the planet. Some people fight for women's rights. Other's for breast cancer. Other groups are focussed on father's rights. There are campaigns against what China is doing in tibet. Or what the US etc. did in Afghanasthan.

I mean why do people keep buying iphones or any other product made in China when we know how workers are treated there?

Maybe the entire human race is hypocritical and self-centred and myopic and we should just sit on our hands and not campaign or act on ANY humanitarian or worthy issue since there is ALWAYS another issue that needs our attention?

So what now? Should we go and declare all the people who fight for women's rights around the world as some kind of evil, manipulative hypocrites because they aren't campaigning equally for fair father's rights?

Or maybe there should be some international council that compiles a list of the world's problems and ranks them in order of importance....

Come on, this entire line of reasoning is ****ing moronic.

Take each issue on its merit.

Now ...the question of why the Israel-Palestine issue is such a strong one in public consciousness is an interesting and valid one.

Is it because of the recent attention on terrorism and that a lot of this is linked into the middle east and the Israel-palestine conflict?

Is it because Israel is supported by major western powers?

Is it because, Israel seems to be the only country currently engaged in this kind of action where any attempt at the UN to stop them is immediately shot down by US veto?

I don't know, it could be any of the above or a million other reasons. But whatever the reason....

but to say that because people actually give a damn about an issue and try to do something about it and aren't simultaneously devoting all their energies to fixing every other problem in the world and that this somehow makes their cause less valid or their actions less sincere.... that's just lowering the intellectual bar of the discussion into a place where only the brain dead can comfortably reside.

If you really want to go down that route you could make a similar arguement about all the people who speak out in defence of Israel and who complain about the rocket attacks.

I mean(taking your line of reasoning here) how the **** can anyone have a problem with Hamas rocket attacks on Israel that have killed 20 people in whatever number of years when so many more die every day from starvation. Therefore anyone who complains about the dangers that Israel supposedly faces is a blatant hypocrite.

@scofflaw

memnoch,that doesn't address my point at all.
Why is the Israeli bogey man getting all the attention whilst over the road mass muderers on a whoppingly much bigger scale and enslavers in a so called islamic regime are getting pretty much ignored by the left wing?

@scofflaw I didn't at any point make the post to justify Israel [goodness knows I've condemned them enough in this thread].

But it does mesmerize me as to why a much huger conflict practically next door is comparatively ignored.Where are the priorities?
Will the same people organising flotillas to Gaza be sailing up the Nile in defence of the 100's of 1000's there being displaced?
If not why not?

@wes I have sig's turned off.
Most of them are annoying but I laud your concern.

wes

Deleted User wrote: »

@wes I have sig's turned off.
Most of them are annoying but I laud your concern.

Ok, take a look at this site then:

http://www.savedarfur.org/

Here are a number of groups involved:

From http://www.savedarfur.org/pages/members

Organizational Members

National Groups


Affiliation of Christian Engineers

Africa Faith and Justice Network

Alliance of Baptists

American Anti-Slavery Group

American Jewish World Service

American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA Society)

Amnesty International USA

AFL-CIO/Solidarity Center

American Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO

American Humanist Association

American Islamic Congress

American Islamic Forum for Democracy

American Jewish Committee

Americans for Democracy in the Middle East (ADME)

Americans for Democratic Action

Anti-Defamation League

Arab American Institute

Armenian Assembly of America

Armenian Church of America

Armenian National Committee of America

B'nai B'rith International

Bread for the World

Buddhist Peace Fellowship

Central Conference of American Rabbis

Christian Solidarity International

Church Alliance for a New Sudan

Church World Service

Citizens for Global Solutions

Coalition for American Leadership Abroad (COLEAD)

Community of Christ

Conference of Major Superiors of Men

Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations

Congress of Secular Jewish Organizations (CSJO)

Council for Secular Humanism

Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)

Cush Community Relief International

Damanga Coalition for Freedom and Democracy

Darfur Association of the USA

Darfur Human Rights Organization of the USA

Darfur Peace and Development Organization

Darfur Rehabilitation Project

Dear Sudan

The Echo Foundation

Edah

ENOUGH! The Project to Abolish Genocide and Mass Atrocities

The Episcopal Church, USA

Evangelical Lutheran Church of America. Washington Office

Faithful America

Foundation for the Defense of Democracies

Freedom Quest International

Foundation for Ethnic Understanding

Genocide Watch

Genocide Intervention Network

Global Justice

Hadassah

Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society

Hillel: The Foundation for Jewish Campus Life

Human Rights First

The Hunger Site

Institute for the Study of Genocide

Interfaith Council

International Justice Mission

Investors Against Genocide

Islamic Circle of North America

Islamic Society of North America

Jacob Blaustein Institute for the Advancement of Human Rights

Jewish Council for Public Affairs

Jewish Healthcare International

Jewish Labor Committee

Jewish Reconstructionist Federation

Jewish World Watch

Jubilee Campaign

KESHER

Leadership Conference of Women Religious

Lutheran World Relief

Maryknoll Office for Global Concerns

MAZON: A Jewish Response to Hunger

Metropolitan Community of Churches

Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation

Muslim Public Affairs Council

My Sister's Keeper

NAACP

NA'AMAT USA

National Association of Evangelicals

National Black Church Initiative

National Black Law Students Association

National Council of Churches of Christ in the USA

National Council of Jewish Women

National Jewish Democratic Council

National Student Campaign against Hunger and Homelessness

NETWORK: A National Catholic Social Justice Lobby

Open Doors USA

Operation Sudan

Operation USA

STAND: A Student Anti-Genocide Coalition

Passion of the Present

Pax Christi USA

Peace Action

Physicians for Human Rights

Presbyterian Church USA; Washington D.C. Office

Progressive Jewish Alliance

Project Islamic H.O.P.E

Rabbinical Assembly

Rabbis for Human Rights North America

Reconstructionist Rabbinical Association

Refugees International

Religions for Peace-USA

Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism

Res Publica

The Shalom Center

Social Action Committee of the Congress of Secular Jewish Organizations

SocialAction.com, c/o Jewish Family & Life!

Society for Humanistic Judaism

Society for Threatened Peoples

Sojourners

STAND: A Student Anti-Genocide Coalition

Stop Genocide Now

Teachers Against Prejudice

Third World Images, Inc

Tikkun

TransAfrica Forum

Ukrainian American Coordinating Council

Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America

Union for Reform Judaism

Union for Traditional Judaism

Unitarian Universalist Association

Unitarian Universalists United Nations Office

Unitarian Universalist Service Committee (UUSC)

United Jewish Communities

United Macedonian Diaspora

The United Methodist General Board of Church and Society

United Nations Association of the USA (UNA-USA)

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops

United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism

Vaishnava Center for Enlightenment

Ve'ahavta

Visions in Action

Western Sudan Aid Relief in the USA

Women of Reform Judaism

Women's America ORT

Women's Commission for Refugee Women and Children

Workmen's Circle/ Arbeter Ring

World Evangelical Alliance


Regional Groups

African Mutual Assistance Association of Missouri

All Saints Church in Pasadena

Board of Rabbis of Northern California

Canadian Aid for Southern Sudan

Canadian Council for Reform Judaism

Canadian Federation of Jewish Students

Canadian Jewish Congress

CASTS: Canadians Against Slavery and Torture in Sudan

Chicago Coalition to Save Darfur

Cincinnatians United to Save Darfur

Cleveland Diocesan Social Action Office & Diocese of Cleveland

Colorado Coalition for Genocide Awareness & Action

Congregation Beth Or

Connecticut Coalition to Save Darfur

Dallas Peace Center

Darfur Alert (Philadelphia)

Democrats for Life of New York

District of Columbia Baptist Convention

Help Darfur Now, Inc.

IKAR

Interfaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington

Jewish Community Federation of Richmond

Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Boston

Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Dallas

Jewish Community Relations Council of the Greater Miami Jewish Federation

Jewish Community Relations Council of San Francisco, the Peninsula, Marin, Sonoma, Alameda and Contra Costa Counties

Jewish Federation of Central New Jersey

Jewish Federation of Greater Houston

Jewish Federation of Tulsa

Joan B. Kroc Institute for Peace & Justice

Mason-Dixon Darfur Alliance

Massachusetts Coalition to Save Darfur

Medjugorje International Relief

New Vision Partners, Inc.

New York Board of Rabbis

New York Society for Ethical Culture

Pittsburgh Darfur Emergency Coalition (PDEC)

Save Darfur Coalition of South Palm Beach

Save Darfur Coalition of Western Massachusetts

STAND Canada (Students Taking Action Now: Darfur)

Sudan Human Rights Organization (SHRO) Washington, DC Chapter

Texans for Peace

Tikkun-Chicago

UJA Federation of New York

Unitarian Universalist United Nations Office (UU-UNO)

Washington Buddhist Peace Fellowship

Western Massachusetts Darfur Coalition

Yeshiva University

If you look at the above groups, you will see many groups of different faiths, and secular groups are all involved with trying to help Darfur. It is not being ignored by activists, and your claims otherwise are imho simply factually incorrect, and again I find the sudden concern for Darfur disingenuous in the extreme.

Memnoch

Deleted User wrote: »

memnoch,that doesn't address my point at all.
Why is the Israeli bogey man getting all the attention whilst over the road mass muderers on a whoppingly much bigger scale and enslavers in a so called islamic regime are getting pretty much ignored by the left wing?

As I've tried to explain. It's an apples and oranges argument.

I think the discussion of what causes a particular atrocity or world problem to take greater precedence in the public consciousness over another is an interesting discussion that probably has faces of philosophy, politics, humanity, sociology and pretty much any other branch of human behaviour.

I personally think it would make a fascinating topic of discussion. But to somehow segue that into this suggestion that the people concerned about X conflict are acting hypocritically or to attack them using this is the ultimate straw man.

I don't know why people pick a particular issue. But they do, and not everyone picks the same issue. And there is ALWAYS going to be a bigger and more valid issue. But that's just an attempt to divert the argument as far as I'm concerned.