Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

dvpower

The US have announced a $400m aid package to Gaza and the West Bank

The money will go towards infrastructure projects in both Gaza and the West Bank, including $10m for the construction of new UN schools. It did not explain how the schools will be built while Israel maintains its embargo on construction materials entering Gaza, claiming they could be diverted to make weapons and build underground bunkers.

It'll be interesting to get an answer to that question.


Israel have also eased the number of items that they include in the blokade. Gazans will now be allowed soft drinks and snack food.

I can only assume that the Israelis don't know what happens when you mix cola with mentos.:eek:

wes

dvpower wrote: »

Israel have also eased the number of items that they include in the blokade. Gazans will now be allowed soft drinks and snack food.

Some of the items now allowed in, show how ridiculous the entire siege has been. Honestly, how exactly couldy any of that stuff have been a security issue is beyond me, and once again shows the siege to be a petty act of collective punishment.

BlaasForRafa

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

Here's a somewhat relevant quote from that interview.




So, is Israel actually crazy or acting crazy?? Art imitating life?

nah, its just finkelstein talking s**te as usual.

Byron85

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

nah, its just finkelstein talking s**te as usual.

Nice contribution. Beautiful really.

He's more qualified than anyone on here, as far as I know, to comment on the situation. I wouldn't call that "talking ****e".

Manic Moran

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying that, I thought it looked like a shotgun but didn't want to say without being positive, I figured it would be Manic Moran who would pop along eventually

The moment I saw that video I knew that it didn't tally with what the blog post was saying. I guess that interpretation wasn't equally valid after all.

And I'd have gotten it wrong: From looking at the video I thought it was an M4. Looking at Alastair's grab, it's a shotgun all right.

NTM

the_syco

alastair wrote: »

'It's time for Ireland to tell Israel 'enough is enough' says Trocaire director speaking from Gaza
'The Irish government needs to tell Israel that its three year blockade on Gaza must end now' according to Justin Kilcullen, director of Trocaire.

Sounds nice, but means sweet f**k all. We're a "neutral country" (read: couldn't defend ourselves against Nazi Germany), and Israel has a nice army, nice airforce, and oh, I'm sure they are some sort of trade partner, so I doubt the government will do anything but blow steam.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Obama pledges $400 million for housing, school construction and business development in Gaza

Possible roof tile pattern :pac:

=-=

TBH, I wonder how many bags of cement will get through before some stupid bo||ox decides to shoot a rocket towards Israel, and every single thing that was accomplished will just have a "I told you so" sign hanging over it from the Israelies?

Offy

For using Irish passports alone we should charge them a bundle. For any action taken against Irish vessels or nationals we should also charge them. They have loads of money and lets face it we need loads of money. I think the government should send the Israeli government a huge bill every time they do something illegal against any of us. Hit them in their pocket and if they dont pay up expel their diplomats and put huge taxes on any of their products coming into Ireland.
We dont have to declare war, that would put us in the same category as them and why should we sink to their level? We wouldnt last a day in a war against any country so suggesting that is a tad silly.

alastair

the_syco wrote: »

Sounds nice, but means sweet f**k all. We're a "neutral country" (read: couldn't defend ourselves against Nazi Germany), and Israel has a nice army, nice airforce, and oh, I'm sure they are some sort of trade partner, so I doubt the government will do anything but blow steam.

You didn't read the link then?

Surprisingly, Trocaire are not calling for an immediate Irish military campaign against the Israelis - what they are lobbying for:

‘Minister Micheal Martin must call on the EU to fully suspend the EU-Israel association agreement, which gives Israel trade privileges within the EU. This agreement was made based on a commitment by Israel to respect human rights, therefore it must be suspended until Israel lifts its blockade on Gaza.'

Offy

alastair wrote: »

You didn't read the link then?

Surprisingly, Trocaire are not calling for an immediate Irish military campaign against the Israelis - what they are lobbying for:

‘Minister Micheal Martin must call on the EU to fully suspend the EU-Israel association agreement, which gives Israel trade privileges within the EU. This agreement was made based on a commitment by Israel to respect human rights, therefore it must be suspended until Israel lifts its blockade on Gaza.'

+1

Clawdeeus

alastair wrote: »

You didn't read the link then?

Surprisingly, Trocaire are not calling for an immediate Irish military campaign against the Israelis - what they are lobbying for:

‘Minister Micheal Martin must call on the EU to fully suspend the EU-Israel association agreement, which gives Israel trade privileges within the EU. This agreement was made based on a commitment by Israel to respect human rights, therefore it must be suspended until Israel lifts its blockade on Gaza.'

Completly agree with Trocaire here, although Id symapthise with the Israeli position morethan most (at least up untill the last few years)

There has been to much hand ringing and lip service in Europe the last week or so over the attack, whilst alot on the hard left complain the US is not reigning Israel in.

That criticisim is fair, if other states are doing what they can to influence Israeli policy. This will not only be a nice smack (without seeming too harsh) it will also provide a carrot for later negotiations.

Wont be done though, even if there is a push the EU will procrastinate untill it is no longer an issue/ it blows over. And I certainly cant picture Ireland becomeing the Gazan's champion in the Western world. Just dosnt seem like our style.

eoin5

the_syco wrote: »

TBH, I wonder how many bags of cement will get through before some stupid bo||ox decides to shoot a rocket towards Israel, and every single thing that was accomplished will just have a "I told you so" sign hanging over it from the Israelies?

Even so itd be a predictable result of their actions. They should expect revenge attempts, its the nature of what theyve helped create and sustain. Instead of "I told you so" the sign should read "We unnecessarily engineered the situation that caused this, our bad". Not much chance of that kind of statement unfortunately.

Clawdeeus

Also this is not the first massive aid package recently. $900 million some time last year. Have no idea where it went/ what the story is with blockaded produce.

the_syco

eoin5 wrote: »

They should expect revenge attempts

I said "stupid bo||ox". I didn't say someone from Palestine. They should expect revenge attempts. Heck, i say they're counting on them, so that they can stop acting nice.

=-=

As for the bit about suspending the preferential trade agreements enjoyed by Israel within the EU, I totally support it, but for my own agenda. If they were blocked, it would benefit Ireland greatly, as the Intel plant in Ireland may be selected for the new chip rather than the Intel plant in Israel.

So if Minister Micheal Martin called for it, Israel could pull that ace out, and say we are doing it to get that contract (which would be very valuable to us in our current economy), and get their preferential trade agreements unsuspended.

wes

Some more video from the IDF attack on the Freedom Floatilla:

Israeli Navy Attacks Gaza Freedom Flotilla

Can't watch it right now myself, still in work.

However, as I have said before, it would be nice to see all the video, and the entire thing right smacks of a cover up imho, by the IDF.

patrickk

Id love to see someone explain this to me .How is it the name of the ship is not shown in sky news footage eh.Anyone defending the Israelis after this footage below and total proof that the media were fed a lie about how the boarding of ship unfolded must be blind.


http://info-wars.org/2010/06/10/video-israel-defense-force-video-of-siege-of-%E2%80%98mavi-marmara%E2%80%99-hoaxed/

patrickk

wes wrote: »

Some more video from the IDF attack on the Freedom Floatilla:

Israeli Navy Attacks Gaza Freedom Flotilla

Can't watch it right now myself, still in work.

However, as I have said before, it would be nice to see all the video, and the entire thing right smacks of a cover up imho, by the IDF.

have a look at this mate :

http://info-wars.org/2010/06/10/video-israel-defense-force-video-of-siege-of-%E2%80%98mavi-marmara%E2%80%99-hoaxed/

wes

patrickk wrote: »

have a look at this mate :

http://info-wars.org/2010/06/10/video-israel-defense-force-video-of-siege-of-%E2%80%98mavi-marmara%E2%80%99-hoaxed/

Thanks for that interesting read.

wes

An expanded version of other video I posted earlier can be found here on Tikun Olam again:

Mavi Marmara: Video as Ammunition in the Battle for World’s Hearts and Minds

Fuhrer

wes wrote: »

Thanks for that interesting read.

I dont get it, what is that link claiming?

droidus

patrickk wrote: »

have a look at this mate :

http://info-wars.org/2010/06/10/video-israel-defense-force-video-of-siege-of-%E2%80%98mavi-marmara%E2%80%99-hoaxed/

Did it ever occur to these people that this footage was taken using an infra red camera, and that paint which is the same temperature as the metal on the boat would therefore not show up?

Also, we can see the exact same moments from the deck of the ship in some of the other footage.

Israel would not hesitate to doctor footage - they've done it before, but in this case, arguments like this just make people look silly.

droidus

Fuhrer wrote: »

I dont get it, what is that link claiming?

That the whole thing was faked by Mossad - mainly due to the fact that you cant see the name of the ship through an infra-red camera at night time.

wes

Fuhrer wrote: »

I dont get it, what is that link claiming?

There claiming the IDF video's were faked. Not too sure about that claim tbh, but it was an interesting read.

**EDIT**
Just saw droidus post, so beaten to it.
**END EDIT**

Fuhrer

wes wrote: »

There claiming the IDF video's were faked. Not too sure about that claim tbh, but it was an interesting read.

The only difference between the picture and the video is that the Mani Manibviferdfdf banner isnt visable in the video. Given that the picture was taken probably days before, it could easily have been moved to the stern or somewhere else.


Hardly worth mentioning.

droidus

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

nah, its just finkelstein talking s**te as usual.

:rolleyes: If you knew your history, you'd be aware that his mentions of 'mad dog' and 'lunatic state' are references to official Israeli policy.

From David Hirst's excellent history of zionism: 'the Gun and the olive branch':

The threatening of wild, irrational violence, in response to political pressure, has been an Israeli impulse from the very earliest days. It was first authoritatively documented, in the 1950s, by Moshe Sharett, the dovish Prime Minister, who wrote of his Defence Minister, Pinhas Lavon, that he 'constantly preached for acts of madness' or 'going crazy' if ever Israel were crossed. Without a 'just, comprehensive and lasting' peace which only America can bring to pass, Israel will remain at least as likely a candidate as Iran, and a far more enduring one, for the role of 'nuclear-crazy' state.

Hirst also quotes Martin van Creveld, professor of military history at The Hebrew University of Jerusalem:

We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother." I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.

Its a theory based on the European, orientalist view of the Arab as a savage who only understands violence and can be be shown no weakness. A view articulated by Moshe Smilansky in 1914 and quoted by Benny Morris in 'Righteous victims':

"We must not forget that we are dealing here with a semi-savage people, which has extremely primitive concepts. And this is his nature: If he senses in you power- he will submit and will hide his hatred for you. And if he senses weakness- he will dominate you .... Moreover ... owing to the many tourists and urban Christians, there developed among the Arabs base values which are not common other primitive people ... to lie, to cheat, to harbor grave [unfounded] suspicions and to tell tales.... and a hidden hatred for the Jews. These Semites- they are anti-Semites."

Of course, there are also parallels in Nixon and Kissinger's 'madman' theory

"I call it the Madman Theory, Bob. I want the North Vietnamese to believe I've reached the point where I might do anything to stop the war. We'll just slip the word to them that, 'for God's sake, you know Nixon is obsessed about Communism. We can't restrain him when he's angry -- and he has his hand on the nuclear button' -- and Ho Chi Minh himself will be in Paris in two days begging for peace."

But thats another story...

Fuhrer

droidus wrote: »

Of course, there are also parallels in Nixon and Kissinger's 'madman' theory
But thats another story...

I never got Finklesteins "Madman" theory on Israel.


I mean, when you're enemy is begging to be killed so they can go to paradise, killing them with Nukes doesnt seem that much of a threat.

wes

Fuhrer wrote: »

I never got Finklesteins "Madman" theory on Israel.


I mean, when you're enemy is begging to be killed so they can go to paradise, killing them with Nukes doesnt seem that much of a threat.

An individual wanting to die, isn't the same as an entire nation of people. A suicide bombers logic is that if he dies killing 10 of the other guy, then it is worthwhile, and this logic just doesn't scale to a entire nation of people.

patrickk

droidus wrote: »

Did it ever occur to these people that this footage was taken using an infra red camera, and that paint which is the same temperature as the metal on the boat would therefore not show up?

Also, we can see the exact same moments from the deck of the ship in some of the other footage.

Israel would not hesitate to doctor footage - they've done it before, but in this case, arguments like this just make people look silly.

Look at ship in question the holes in top of ship the whole shape of upper deck is different is everyone blind or what ?
ye nutters look at it again and as far as lettering goes dont buy that the wording of the ship is in black and infra red will still pick up name on side of the ship that argument doesnt wash with anyone

droidus

Fuhrer wrote: »

I never got Finklesteins "Madman" theory on Israel.


I mean, when you're enemy is begging to be killed so they can go to paradise, killing them with Nukes doesnt seem that much of a threat.

Ye-ahhh except the PLO were secular, radical Islamic opposition to Israel has only really emerged in the last 15 years or so, and even then there is still massive secular resistance.

Also, the majority of states which opposed Israel from 48 - 73 onwards were all secular socialist autocracies - Jordan, the Baath in Syria and Iraq, Nasser and Sadat in Egypt...

The emergence of radical Islamic resistance in the mid-east can be traced back to the '82 invasion of Lebanon and the cultivation of Islamic groups (which would later become Hamas) by the Israelis in the late 70's/early 80's in an attempt to marginalise the PLO and split Palestinian support.

droidus

patrickk wrote: »

Look at ship in question the holes in top of ship the whole shape of upper deck is different is everyone blind or what ?
ye nutters look at it again and as far as lettering goes dont buy that the wording of the ship is in black and infra red will still pick up name on side of the ship that argument doesnt wash with anyone

Infra red picks out differences in temperature - not colour.

EVEN if the banner hadn't simply been moved, the idea that a tiny bit of black text would somehow retain more heat from the day than the surrounding metal 6 hours after the sun goes down is tenuous - at best.

patrickk

Fuhrer wrote: »

The only difference between the picture and the video is that the Mani Manibviferdfdf banner isnt visable in the video. Given that the picture was taken probably days before, it could easily have been moved to the stern or somewhere else.


Hardly worth mentioning.

Its not Mani Manibviferdfdf .Its Mavi Marhara and thats name of the ship .
Why would name of a ship be changed from its side .That would have been illegal by maritime law and would give Israelis further reason to jail the people on the ship .Come on we're all intelligent people here and this footage proves the lies that exist to feed israeli propaganda .There is no denying this footage its absolute proof and shows deceit and how propaganda is been used to fool world population.