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Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

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Comments

  • #482
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    dlofnep wrote: »
    No, you only see the world in blue and white.

    Am I Greek? :confused:
    Ben Hadad wrote: »
    It's common knowledge that forum boards are used by media groups and in this case probably intelligence related agencys to conduct propaganda in order to weaken or disprove any negative related discussion against that body, or nationality of that body..

    LOL, we've been rumbled :rolleyes:
    Ben Hadad wrote: »
    It is no coincidence that many people who are vehemently defending this Israeli action were up at the crack of dawn to post very positive posts on this subject.

    About as big a coincidence that many people who were attacking this Israeli action were also up at the crack of dawn to post very negatice posts on the subject. That is to say, no coincidence at all.
    wes wrote: »
    Again, it is not in my opinion, what Israel has done violates international law..

    wes please go ahead and point out the laws broken...


  • #483
    Glenshane Pass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Glenshane Pass


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    Over lunch I re-watched some of the videos on a bigger TV. The Israeli troops were getting their heads kicked in when they landed - one fellow had a solder down in a doorway and was beating the head off of him with a metal bar.

    There was no shooting happening at this point.

    I daresay what happened was:

    1. A soldier lost his rag with someone kicking his head in and blew him away.

    2. A "protestor" get a weapon off of a soldier and things kicked off when either a. The Israeli's saw this and shot him or b. The protestor opened fire

    3. In the struggles, a weapon went off by accident and it kicked off from there

    Frankly, when armed men drop from the sky you don't start beating them with metal bars, the UN charter of human rights or rolled up copies of naval law.

    I guess you're right, but it was their act of provocation. They shouldn't have boarded and I commend any brave man or woman who took them on. I'd futher add that I hope one of the bastards was killed.


  • #484
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    International Law, rules of engagement, humanitarian aid, human rights do not apply to Israel. It does as it likes and cares not. No surprise though its what we have come to expect from this rogue state.
    Rules of Engagement states that one does not open fire until attacked. From the video evidence I've seen, the Israeli troops were being attacked.

    I don't care how legally right you are, if an armed man drops on your head and attack him with a metal bar, a knife or anything else, don't turn around crying when he puts you down.


  • #485
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Glenshane Pass wrote: »
    I guess you're right, but it was their act of provocation. They shouldn't have boarded and I commend any brave man or woman who took them on.
    As I've stated before, I believe that these protestors were looking for a fight. Suicide by cop, and a massive PR victory, much larger than if the Israeli's had just shot out their rudders and towed them into port.


  • #486
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Correct. His comments will be something along the lines supporting Israels right to defend itself, followed by a "The United States and Israel are strong allies" to re-assure the pro-Israeli lobby.

    Obama is a disappointment and had turned into the biggest yes Man ever ( Yes we can .... oh no I can't)


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  • #487
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    prinz wrote: »
    A
    wes please go ahead and point out the laws broken...

    Been done numerous times, by numerous different posters.


  • #488
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    .


  • #489
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    As I've stated before, I believe that these protestors were looking for a fight. Suicide by cop, and a massive PR victory, much larger than if the Israeli's had just shot out their rudders and towed them into port.

    No, they didn't expect the IDF to go on a killing spree, actually. So you suicide by cop claim is a disgusting attempt to excuse Israels murderous actions. Israel is to blame for this, and not the innocent people aboard the flotilla, who were attacking by a bunch of murderous pirates in uniform.


  • #490
    randomuser77
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭randomuser77


    prinz wrote: »
    What "law of the sea" would that be?

    Hold on a second, the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea is pretty central to the whole International Waters issue. If you didn't know that it even existed then where on earth were you drawing the authority for this ...
    prinz wrote: »
    Yes, countries do have the right to act in international waters.

    and this ...
    prinz wrote: »
    ..not proof of threat. Reasonable suspicion.


  • #491
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    Rules of Engagement states that one does not open fire until attacked. From the video evidence I've seen, the Israeli troops were being attacked.

    I don't care how legally right you are, if an armed man drops on your head and attack him with a metal bar, a knife or anything else, don't turn around crying when he puts you down.

    The Israelis had NO RIGHT to be on the vessel in international waters, so it could be deemed that they were the intruders and the crew were justly defending themselves.


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  • #492
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Here is a video, you can still hear the gunshots before they board. Spin this one Prinz

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB-Mk4bFz-U


  • #493
    Glenshane Pass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Glenshane Pass


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    As I've stated before, I believe that these protestors were looking for a fight. Suicide by cop, and a massive PR victory, much larger than if the Israeli's had just shot out their rudders and towed them into port.

    I would say the Israelis were provoking. Israel is clever, I reckon they knew something bad would happen and they went in to teach a lesson.

    They simply don't give a **** what the world thinks. That has been proved time and time again.


  • #494
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Augmerson wrote: »
    What right had Israel to board these ships in international waters in the context of international law?
    How are the "humanitarians" at fault for being boarded, attacked and killed?

    (a) Countries have the right to act, even in international waters. That much is sure

    (b) Israel made it clear this convoy would not be getting through. Pretty much the same as a cop shouting 'stop or I shoot' and someone keeping on running.

    partyguinness wrote: »
    Do you think that Israel should know better?

    Yes
    partyguinness wrote: »
    Do you think Israel acted proportionately?

    No. Not that I have seen so far. I think they over reacted and attempting to board the ships at sea was a mistake.
    alastair wrote: »
    Tedious it may be, but illegal it is - the international law is there for everyone to read.

    Again, Israel hasn't signed up to the UNCLOS.


  • #495
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    dan719 wrote: »
    Would you mind pointing out where I said that Israel were not to blame? I said I don't blame them for stepping outside what would be considered decent behaviour. I never said they were not culpable for the situation they find themselves in. I do find it hilarious that "bleeding heart liberals" as you call them align themselves with Arab terrorists though. Someday someone will explain that to me.


    Do they? That's a fairly sweeping statement.......and what now...

    "Sympathising with the humanitarian plight of the ordinary people of Gaza = Supporting Arab terrorists"...give me a break...:rolleyes:

    You at no stage "pointed out" Israels faults or said they had to share some of the blame. If I have misrepresented you please correct me and highlight the blame Israel must share...


  • #496
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    wes wrote: »
    Been done numerous times, by numerous different posters.

    Like who? Which laws applicable to Israel have been broken by Israel?
    randomuser77 wrote: »
    Hold on a second, the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea is pretty central to the whole International Waters issue. If you didn't know that it even existed ...

    Oh I know it exists chief. I also know that Israel is not signed up to that and that it has no bearing on the protective principle.


  • #497
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    wes wrote: »
    No, they didn't expect the IDF to go on a killing spree, actually. So you suicide by cop claim is a disgusting attempt to excuse Israels murderous actions. Israel is to blame for this, and not the innocent people aboard the flotilla, who were attacking by a bunch of murderous pirates in uniform.
    I saw Israeli troops land. No gunfire. Then they were laid into with metal bars. One Israeli soldier is in a doorway on Sky News' footage, down with one hand propping himself up, the other shielding himself from the blows.

    If I was him, I'd have blown that fellow away before he could either get my weapon off of me or kill me.

    These protestors were not peaceful.

    They were looking for a fight.


  • #498
    Ben Hadad
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Ben Hadad


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    would you care to name the posters you think are working for the israelis and posting on boards.ie? :rolleyes:

    it is far more likely that on a monday people are arrivng at work from 6am -9am and logging onto their computer

    No, I have no interest in doing this and am very aware I am unlikely to be able to verify this.

    However I would care to ask people to use their common sense and attempt to find out a persons motivation for actually posting on this thread. Ireland has scant ties with Israel, religiously, culturaly, politically, historically. It would appear very unusal to side so strongly with a nation that attacks an aid ship in international waters unless there were alterior motives in my opinion. I will argue this point with you. I am obviusly not going to argue my original statement in my first post, although if you agree with what I have said in this paragraph then the jump to my original position is easily made.


  • #499
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    The Israelis had NO RIGHT to be on the vessel in international waters, so it could be deemed that they were the intruders and the crew were justly defending themselves.
    As has been previously stated, the Israeli's have every right to run a blockade to keep weapons out of Gaza. For a parallel example, see Cuba.


  • #500
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Of course, this being Israel one cannot be angry with them because of the Holocaust.


  • #501
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    RasTa wrote: »
    Here is a video, you can still hear the gunshots before they board. Spin this one Prinz

    You know warning fire is a fairly standard thing to do before boarding at sea right? The Irish Fisheries Protection Vessels have also been heard firing at vessels prior to boarding. It all depends where those rounds were aimed.


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  • #502
    Glenshane Pass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Glenshane Pass


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    I saw Israeli troops land. No gunfire. Then they were laid into with metal bars. One Israeli soldier is in a doorway on Sky News' footage, down with one hand propping himself up, the other shielding himself from the blows.

    If I was him, I'd have blown that fellow away before he could either get my weapon off of me or kill me.

    These protestors were not peaceful.

    They were looking for a fight.

    They were looking for a fight yep, by boarding Israeli warships with helicopters.


  • #503
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    I saw Israeli troops land. No gunfire. Then they were laid into with metal bars. One Israeli soldier is in a doorway on Sky News' footage, down with one hand propping himself up, the other shielding himself from the blows.

    If I was him, I'd have blown that fellow away before he could either get my weapon off of me or kill me.

    These protestors were not peaceful.

    They were looking for a fight.

    Hold on a sec....

    A crack IDF unit storm a (civilian) boat which was disproportionate and prob illegal...and it's the protestors were looking for a fight....:confused:

    Are you serious...?

    If the IDf had not stormed the boat..there would be no situation and we would be discussing something else this morning.


  • #504
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    As has been previously stated, the Israeli's have every right to run a blockade to keep weapons out of Gaza. For a parallel example, see Cuba.


    Weapons? The only weapons were the ones the Israelis used to kill the humanitarians. An abominable act against innocent people not for the first or last time I will bet.


  • #505
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    I wonder if there's a way to track where the Israeli ambassador currently is; would love to egg the deceiving arsehole (preferably in the middle of a TV interview).
    I remember the disgusting apologetics (EDIT: well, more blatant lies and justification of murder) from him last year, when Israel were busy massacring over a thousand civilians, and he's busy at work spouting the same kind of bollocks now.


  • #506
    doncarlos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭doncarlos


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    in my opinion i have no problem with israel inspecting aid that is going into a country that repeatedly attacks them

    And the best way to inspect aid is for armed masked commandos to repel down ropes from helicopters?


  • #507
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Glenshane Pass wrote: »
    They were looking for a fight yep, by boarding Israeli warships with helicopters.


    Did you not read Fox News...

    "Concerned Israeli IDF unit brutally attacked by blood thirsty Aid workers"


  • #508
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    prinz wrote: »
    Again, Israel hasn't signed up to the UNCLOS.

    And yet it is the only law applicable to international waters, so at best Israel are a lawless party in that context - just because they don't subscibe to the law, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


  • #509
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    partyguinness wrote: »
    If the IDf had not stormed the boat..there would be no situation and we would be discussing something else this morning.

    ...and if the convoy had docked as requested none of them would be dead, there would be no situation and we'd be discussing something else.


  • #510
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    alastair wrote: »
    And yet it is the only law applicable to international waters, so at best Israel are a lawless party in that context - just because they don't subscibe to the law, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    Oh it exists all right where did I deny it existed? It just doesn't apply in this situation.:)


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  • #511
    Glenshane Pass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Glenshane Pass


    prinz wrote: »
    ...and if the convoy had docked as requested none of them would be dead, there would be no situation and we'd be discussing something else.

    Who in the right mind would embrace that? Why hand the aid to the very ones who target ambulances, aid workers, journalists? Why hand the aid to the very ones who have destroyed Gaza?

    Again, whataboutery from you.

    Israel ****ed up. They are murderers, why are you defending them, what is your motivation?


This discussion has been closed.
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