Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

Winty

taconnol wrote: »

Human nature? Not good enough.

Your Correct. Should the IDF have been on that Boat that night? No.
But they were and the men on the ground had to defend themselves

prinz

Chriskavo wrote: »

Folks don't even qualify any of those false 'paintball gun' fairytales with a response. This is classic strawman argument put up by the trolls here. This was murder - plain and simple.

Yes those false 'paintbal gun' fairytales. Even people strongly against the Israeli actions have acknowledged they were carrying paintball guns at first. What's the fairytale?

alastair

IrishTonyO wrote: »

If they were filled with CS gas they are not paint guns

No - they're painball guns. Just as water pistols filled with lemonade are still water pistols.

The interesting video, which we'll probably never see, is what happened after this initial group of soldiers gathered together (which they're doing at the end of the video) and the point where the IDF opened up, shooting scores of people and killing whatever number died. I'm pretty sure that video won't be top of the IDF youtube PR parade.

IrishTonyO

prinz wrote: »

Yes those false 'paintbal gun' fairytales. Even people strongly against the Israeli actions have acknowledged they were carrying paintball guns at first. What's the fairytale?

Who acknowledges they were carrying paint guns and do you serioulsy think the IDF would arm their soldiers with paint guns???

Chriskavo

prinz wrote: »

Yes those false 'paintbal gun' fairytales. Even people strongly against the Israeli actions have acknowledged they were carrying paintball guns at first. What's the fairytale?

Their were no paintball guns - that is a lie. This was murder plain and simple. Paintball guns don't kill people.

alastair

Chriskavo wrote: »

Folks don't even qualify any of those false 'paintball gun' fairytales with a response. This is classic strawman argument put up by the trolls here. This was murder - plain and simple.

Regardless of whether you believe these deaths to be murders - the evidence of your own eyes will tell you that the IDF initially used paintball guns. How that presents matters in any better light escapes me.

prinz

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Who acknowledges they were carrying paint guns and do you serioulsy think the IDF would arm their soldiers with paint guns???

Here you go...

alastair wrote: »

Regardless of whether you believe these deaths to be murders - the evidence of your own eyes will tell you that the IDF initially used paintball guns. How that presents matters in any better light escapes me.

Mister men

I'll refrain from putting my actual thoughts about the Israelis here in fear of being banned. Needless to say what happened last night was shameful.

Chriskavo

prinz wrote: »

Here you go...

Are you a Zionist?

FunnyStuff

taconnol wrote: »

Oh sure, I'd just lie back and take a nap.

I don't know how I would react. People react in different ways. Some people freeze, some people get angry and attack. Does it mean it was their fault they died? Or was it actually the fault of the intruder in their room, who shouldn't have been there in the first place?

No its not their fault they died, but if a guy points a gun at you and you attack him, good chance you get killed. The protestors would have been much better off just taking the boarding and see how it progressed.

They had the moral highground in going ahead with this flotilla of ships. But with images of soldiers being attacked with poles and being thrown off boats, there will be alot of people questioning their actions, and thier motives.

Prufrock

Denerick wrote: »

Cause and effect? If a child hits a bear with a stone, don't be surprised if the bears eats and dismembers the child. Its basic maturity and reasoning. If they did fire at the Israeli's, then its absolutely no surprise what happened them and I struggle to understand how anyone can simply overlook this fact.

When you say fire....with what? They had no guns onboard based on the security check in Turkey. Unless you mean they attacked first?

eamo12

DidierMc wrote: »

Goebbels himself would be in awe of the Israeli lies and slanders dressed up as facts.

I think Goebbels himself would be in awe of the anti-Israeli vitriol posted on this thread. He would also be in awe of the propaganda coup and martyrdom of the activists.

Scofflaw

alastair wrote: »

No - they're painball guns. Just as water pistols filled with lemonade are still water pistols.

The interesting video, which we'll probably never see, is what happened after this initial group of soldiers gathered together (which they're doing at the end of the video) and the point where the IDF opened up, shooting scores of people and killing whatever number died. I'm pretty sure that video won't be top of the IDF youtube PR parade.

Water pistols filled with acid are an offensive weapon.

cordially,
Scofflaw

eamo12

Mister men wrote: »

I'll refrain from putting my actual thoughts about the Israelis here in fear of being banned. Needless to say what happened last night was shameful.

I think you would be quite safe on this forum - just don't go as far as the zyclon-B guy did and you'll be OK.

Deep Easterly

FunnyStuff wrote: »

No its not their fault they died, but if a guy points a gun at you and you attack him, good chance you get killed. The protestors would have been much better off just taking the boarding and see how it progressed.

They had the moral highground in going ahead with this flotilla of ships. But with images of soldiers being attacked with poles and being thrown off boats, there will be alot of people questioning their actions, and thier motives.

Except that they did not kill anybody. A bit strange questioning the motives of the aid workers when it was they who bore the brunt of this outragous attack.

Byron85

eamo12 wrote: »

I think Goebbels himself would be in awe of the anti-Israeli vitriol posted on this thread. He would also be in awe of the propaganda coup and martyrdom of the activists.

Vitriol that is more than justified considering the murder of citizens of a different country in international waters where they, the Israelis, have no jurisdiction.

alastair

Scofflaw wrote: »

Water pistols filled with acid are an offensive weapon.

cordially,
Scofflaw

They would be alright. But paintballs filled with CS don't kill anyone, and I don't see anyone claiming that they contained acid. My point was that they initially used paintball guns for obvious 'non-lethal' purposes - which undermines the notion that they responded to being fired upon, ambush style.

oncevotedff

Instead of sailing towards Gaza why didn't the flotilla sail to Egypt where the supplies could have been safely unloaded in an Arab country and transported overland the relatively short distance to Gaza.

WIZE

How did the IDF gain full contol of the Ship when they were gettin beaten with Metal Bars

Did the Activistes stop when people were being shot

Chriskavo

eamo12 wrote: »

I think Goebbels himself would be in awe of the anti-Israeli vitriol posted on this thread. He would also be in awe of the propaganda coup and martyrdom of the activists.

So anybody who condemns cold blooded murder by the IDF is anti Israeli?

gandalf

FunnyStuff wrote: »

They had the moral highground in going ahead with this flotilla of ships. But with images of soldiers being attacked with poles and being thrown off boats, there will be alot of people questioning their actions, and thier motives.

And if you replace those soldiers with Somali pirates for example and these people would have been hailed as heroes who fought back.

Again no matter what way you spin the rest of the events, the IDF illegally boarded a ship in International Waters. All the subsequent events, the people killed, the people injured, the soldiers injured all occurred because of this illegal boarding.

Again there is no explanation as to why they didn't wait until the ships hit Israeli territorial waters and why they didn't do the operation by pulling navy ships beside the Aid Ship and boarding conventionally during daylight hours. If anything the IDF commanders put their own men in danger as well.

Chriskavo

Scofflaw wrote: »

Water pistols filled with acid are an offensive weapon.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Brilliant riposte Scoffaw

alastair

oncevotedff wrote: »

Instead of sailing towards Gaza why didn't the flotilla sail to Egypt where the supplies could have been safely unloaded in an Arab country and transported overland the relatively short distance to Gaza.

Because the border is closed at Rafah. Egypt don't want to get involved any more than they have to.

prinz

Chriskavo wrote: »

So anybody who condemns cold blooded murder by the IDF is anti Israeli?

Chriskavo wrote: »

Are you a Zionist?

No. Quite far from it.

Prufrock

alastair wrote: »

They would be alright. But paintballs filled with CS don't kill anyone, and I don't see anyone claiming that they contained acid. My point was that they initially used paintball guns for obvious 'non-lethal' purposes - which undermines the notion that they responded to being fired upon, ambush style.

Fired on with what. Its a fact that the ship was checked out in Turkey and no guns were onboard when they left port. Unless your saying they picked up guns en route? Or by fired that you mean they were attacked with poles/sticks?

FunnyStuff

Prufrock wrote: »

Or by fired that you mean they were attacked with poles/sticks?

You ever been attacked with a metal pole?

Prufrock

FunnyStuff wrote: »

You ever been attacked with a metal pole?

I've never been fired on by a metal pole. There's just a lot of "were the Israeli soldiers fired on first" going around this thread.

ammonite2

I am outraged, as are most sane people on this thread at these attacks. I've been reading all the posts live getting madder and madder. I have to stop now and get back to my life. This story will roll for a while and then be forgotten as have all the other terrible things that have happen in recent times in that part of the world.
None of our politicians will stand up and be counted. All giving the same guarded response. I wish our leaders would make a stand but, no that will never happen they are all just unwilling to rock the boat with Israel.
Isn't it great living in a country where it's easier for Israel to get an Irish passport than it's citizens. Remember that story?

alastair

Prufrock wrote: »

Fired on with what. Its a fact that the ship was checked out in Turkey and no guns were onboard when they left port. Unless your saying they picked up guns en route? Or by fired that you mean they were attacked with poles/sticks?

Quite how you turn 'undermines the notion that they responded to being fired upon' into a suggestion that the protestors were packing guns escapes me.

If the IDF were fired upon (which I don't know), it seems most likely that it was with their own guns. The video the IDF have released would appear to show IDF stun grenades being used against the IDF.

Chriskavo

Prufrock wrote: »

I've never been fired on by a metal pole.

Brilliant!!!