Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

Scofflaw

P. Breathnach wrote: »

One would like to think that there is a limit, but it is difficult to see where it is. Every so often Israel does something that seems to me to be a step too far, and time and again their major ally backs them while the rest of the international community summon up peeps of protest and little else.

Yes, I was going to add "although Israel is giving it a good try". It's difficult, since both UN and EU action require unanimity, and the US can block one directly while there's always someone who'll play cat's paw in the other - there's generally accepted as being no likelihood of the US taking any action, of course - the language of the US statement is clear enough on that:

"deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained, and is currently working to understand the circumstances surrounding this tragedy."

It just happened, see? A sort of natural disaster, apparently, very sad, but we are where we are.

cordially,
Scofflaw

eoin5

P. Breathnach wrote: »

One would like to think that there is a limit, but it is difficult to see where it is. Every so often Israel does something that seems to me to be a step too far, and time and again their major ally backs them while the rest of the international community summon up peeps of protest and little else.

Well they've lost a tenuous ally in Turkey for sure. Also the longer they hold prisoners illegally the worse relations will become with their home countries. Theyve done themselves lasting damage this time. I dont think it'll end with the lifting of the blokade unfortunately though.

Aside from state relations I wonder if it will boost international activism. It'll certainly boost Hamas...

happymondays

Scofflaw wrote: »

Yes, I was going to add "although Israel is giving it a good try". It's difficult, since both UN and EU action require unanimity, and the US can block one directly while there's always someone who'll play cat's paw in the other - there's generally accepted as being no likelihood of the US taking any action, of course - the language of the US statement is clear enough on that:



It just happened, see? A sort of natural disaster, apparently, very sad, but we are where we are.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Well this seems different to the gaza war afew years ago, i guess becuase
foreign nationals onboard not palenstines.

Turkey seems outraged and a bit manic at the moment saying that for future
conveys they are going to send a navy escort!!!

now as stupid as it may seem and tbh i wouldnt not put anything past the IDF now but what if neither side backs down and the IDF try stop the convey.

Remember Turkey is a NATO country so any act if war against one NATO country automically brings all the others in! world war 3 possibly!

kiffer

... Weapons found on the Mavi Marmara...



notice the highly dangerous sharpener to go along with the kitchen knife set...
a handful of small folding knives, a screwdriver and a Jambiya dagger.
I would reasonably expect to find this mix of knives... a medium kitchen's worth plus a small number of knives that people might carry for utility ('cept the Jambiya). If I wanted to throw together a defense with a little notice I would expect it too look like this... improvised weapons, kitchen knives, pocket knives and tools from the ship.

But then there's what is shown in this video; Slingshots/catapults with bottles of pebbles, a large number of gas masks, a selection of tools (ok, ships need tools) and a lot bars (iron and wooden... which seems odd) and something that the IDF call firebombs, but are labeled as smoke torches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvS9PXZ3RWM

Not a single gun though...

alastair

Given the Israeli Deputy Ambassador's statements on The Frontline, it's worth pointing out a couple of facts.

1. The only guns found by the IDF on the ships were the ones nicked from their own commandos.

2. The haul of 'sophisticated' weapons they did find on the Mavi Marmara consisted of these:



Now, unless I'm wrong, that looks like they emptied out the ship's kitchen (including the chef's honing steel) and every toolbox they could find, along with admittedly sophisticated weapons like angle-grinder disks, and eh, rope.
The catapult and prince of persia knife could well have posed a serious threat to Israel's security, mind.
It brings to mind to sort of contraband you'd sneak back in the coach following school trips to France or whatever - it's just missing the crackerjacks.

Do the Israeli embassy care one iota for their credibility when they send out their ambassadors with such patent nonsense?

snow ghost

Lord Haw Haw would be proud of that BS IDF propaganda.

wes

Looks like Israels claims of advanced weapons was another lie.

WakeUp

What a terrible thing they Israeli’s have done and the people defending them here, well it is to be expected at this stage. After every atrocity the IDF carry out the same nauseous defence & lies by the same nauseous people ensues. You only have to listen to Mark Regev for a few seconds to have your stomach turned inside out and then some, hes a right w@nker forgive my language. But this time Israel has well and truly stirred the hornets nest and because they usually get away it, their blinded by their own arrogance at the moment but it will register soon enough.

Israel has angered the whole world whilst alienating their few Muslim friends especially the Turks how dumb are their commanders. Turkey can cause Israel a lot problem’s if they so choose and judging by the Turkish response they are well pissed. Expect Turkey to start pressuring Egypt to open up passage into Gaza and soon, by-passing Israel altogether. And if they decide on a trade embargo against Israel then they really have got problems. There are hundreds of Israeli companies operating in Turkey, big companies at that in the defence/intelligence/aerospace sector, billion dollar industries they stand to lose a lot. Already rumour’s of massive Turkish defence contracts given to Israeli companies being withdrawn.

Usually the US turn a blind eye to things like this but I don’t think they will be able to this time. Turkey is a crucial partner of NATO who are very important to the US/Stooge crusade in the middle east and the US wont be able to ignore Turkish voices. Israel has really gone and done it this time they just don’t realise it yet but they will.

Glenshane Pass

Rachel Corrie on the way to Gaza.

Biggins

Wooden short sticks and kitchen knives.
While deadly in the wrong hands, still - not exactly what I'd call implements that were going to aid Hamas (who I am NOT a supporter of).

A shocking indictment of one massive balls up of an operation.

bernardo mac

Could Israel be moving closer to that Biblical destiny.Apocalypse and a Brave New Post Nuclear World?

IrishTonyO

Glenshane Pass wrote: »

Rachel Corrie on the way to Gaza.

where u hear this?

Glenshane Pass

IrishTonyO wrote: »

where u hear this?

Email forwarded to a freind of mine from the ship.
They are heading with the Malaysians, who are fully backed by the government, so I would say, politically untouchable.

Pride Fighter

IrishTonyO wrote: »

where u hear this?

I've heard it on facebook. I wonder will the Turkish navy give it an escort? Israel would never attack a Turkish warship, as the US would be then at war with Israel due to Nato coming to the aid of one of its members.

kiffer

Glenshane Pass wrote: »

Email forwarded to a freind of mine from the ship.
They are heading with the Malaysians, who are fully backed by the government, so I would say, politically untouchable.

also this Irish Time article says,

Five Irish activists who were aboard the 1,200-ton Irish-owned cargo ship Rachel Corrie, were earlier confirmed as safe. The vessel was initially delayed because of mechanical problems and only left Malta last night.

Glenshane Pass

kiffer wrote: »

also this Irish Time article says,

That would explain "we are two days away from Gaza".

Hmm, wonder will there be an attempt to stop it?

thebigdogg

i have a freind on facebook from israel and i was shocked when he put up as his status. The only solutions, is kill them all!

bernardo mac

Shoot to find Peace approach?

kiffer

Glenshane Pass wrote: »

That would explain "we are two days away from Gaza".

Hmm, wonder will there be an attempt to stop it?

They won't allow it to cross the blockade... the people on board will probably go quietly when they are boarded. The IDF might actually wait till they actually enter territorial waters this time. Good luck to them.

bernardo mac

kiffer wrote: »

They won't allow it to cross the blockade... the people on board will probably go quietly when they are boarded. The IDF might actually wait till they actually enter territorial waters this time. Good luck to them.

Indeed,may all go well for them.

jank

Sand wrote: »

Seems a desperately sad situation - hard to understand what possessed the protestors to try and take on armed soldiers. What did they expect would happen? That a soldier knocked to the ground, being beaten and stamped upon would hesitate to kill to save his own life? Or that other soldiers would hesitate before killing men they saw beating their friends and comrades to death before them?

The flotilla was clearly aimed at provoking an Israeli response to attempt to highlight the perceived injustice of the Israeli blockade. They rejected the Israeli proposal that they deliver the goods to Ashood where the Israelis would clear them and they would be delivered to Gaza. I have seen reports that the flotilla diverted course so as to improve the chances of a daylight confrontation with the Israeli military, which would make for better TV.

Policies of passive resistance are favoured by protestors, but it's a policy that requires a great deal of discipline on the part of the protestors and their organisers and its quite clear that the protestors on that ship dissolved into a mob and abandoned passive resistance for aggressive, violent resistance - perhaps overcome by feelings of rage, anger, hate now that they were finally up close with the evil demonic babykilling Israeli military they despised so much. The Flotilla leadership seems to have lost control of the situation, and when a mob of screaming maniacs surround armed soldiers trying to beat them to death, then no one could honestly pretend to be surprised by the consequences.

Interestingly, theres been a report that the parents of Gilad Shilat, the IDF soldier held by Hamas, attempted to contact the flotilla organisers and proposed a deal whereby the Shilat family would publically support their flotilla efforts if the flotilla organisers would use their influence with Hamas to help their son and or bring him their letters. The organisers apparently told them to get stuffed.

You outdid yourself this time Sand. Congrats!

Manic Moran

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I've heard it on facebook. I wonder will the Turkish navy give it an escort? Israel would never attack a Turkish warship, as the US would be then at war with Israel due to Nato coming to the aid of one of its members.

Problem is I'll bet $20 that the Turks will be told 'Don't fire unless you are attacked' and the Israelis will be told the same thing.

So either you're going to have warships going around trying to ram each other, which I doubt, or more likely, the Israelis will ignore the Turkish warships entirely, and just board the merchant ship anyway.

NRM

jank

Manic Moran wrote: »

Problem is I'll bet $20 that the Turks will be told 'Don't fire unless you are attacked' and the Israelis will be told the same thing.

So either you're going to have warships going around trying to ram each other, which I doubt, or more likely, the Israelis will ignore the Turkish warships entirely, and just board the merchant ship anyway.

NRM

Interesting scenario though. Do you really think that a flotilla under the protection of Turkish warships are just going to let Israelis board the ship they are supposed to be protecting. Talk about a loss of face that I don't think will go down too kindly for the Turks.

Manic Moran

Do you really think that a flotilla under the protection of Turkish warships are just going to let Israelis board the ship they are supposed to be protecting. Talk about a loss of face that I don't think will go down too kindly for the Turks.

Which is why I'll wager there'll be a flurry of diplomatic activity behind the scenes, so that when the two sides actually do meet there will be a well-rehearsed script followed to ensure that no side loses face and nobody on either side's warships get hurt.

NTM

jank

Manic Moran wrote: »

Which is why I'll wager there'll be a flurry of diplomatic activity behind the scenes, so that when the two sides actually do meet there will be a well-rehearsed script followed to ensure that no side loses face and nobody on either side's warships get hurt.

NTM

Maybe, It seems as the Turks tails are up and they want something concrete to happen. A temporary lifting of the embargo is what will probably happen.

jill_valentine

I think it's shaping up to be the world's tensest junior disco - everybody on their side of the room, hoping somebody else makes a move and unsure what to do when they do.

Nodin

It would seem that the compact disc can indeed be turned into a Ninja Death Weapon......
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66170929&postcount=1116

Mister men

thebigdogg wrote: »

i have a freind on facebook from israel and i was shocked when he put up as his status. The only solutions, is kill them all!

And your surprised. I've been to Israel and they are some of the most racist people i have come across on the planet.

alastair

Nodin wrote: »

It would seem that the compact disc can indeed be turned into a Ninja Death Weapon......
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66170929&postcount=1116

Those are actually angle-grinder discs. A terrorist could spin them on their finger and the resulting chaffing if they get you is really painful - it's pretty sophisticated really.

PeakOutput

jank wrote: »

Maybe, It seems as the Turks tails are up and they want something concrete to happen. A temporary lifting of the embargo is what will probably happen.

if turkey do escort the ships it wont make any difference, the israelis wont let their warships into their waters and the convoys must pass through israeli waters to get to gaza so they will just wait for the warships to feck off once the convoy reaches their waters. if the warships dont feck off and enter israli waters they are compeltely open to being attacked and id be very very suprised is the turks had anywhere nears as sophisticated a navy as israel

the turks getting warships involved is retarded