Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

Rev Hellfire

Floppybits wrote: »

I am sick at the response of the UN and US to this, a harder line needs to be taken with Israel. Can people not see the similarities between the actions of Israel and the actions of the nazi's against the Jewish people in WW2.

Yes I too am applauded by the mass death camps... no wait

prinz

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

Again, the Israelis are doing themselves no favours as it seems that a complete media blackout was the aim, which has obviously failed.

Although it does undermine the many posters here claiming things about the IDF landing on deck intending to commit cold blooded murder.

Fuhrer

prinz wrote: »

Although it does undermine the many posters here claiming things about the IDF landing on deck intending to commit cold blooded murder.

It does?

Byron85

prinz wrote: »

Although it does undermine the many posters here claiming things about the IDF landing on deck intending to commit cold blooded murder.

I don't think they landed with the intention to kill anyone but at the same time they didn't care whether they had to resort to that or not.

FlutterinBantam

I haven't read the whole thread but I'm sure the usual suspects and barrack room activists are in there.

Look, after digesting all the propaganda from both sides,what we have here from an Irish point of view is, it seems to me anyway, is a naive bunch of idealists who got in above their depth.

Looks like that Turkish ship was infiltrated by a bunch of hardliners who didn't want peace, just aggro. Time will put out all these findings.

Several other vessels were stopped and no problems. Why so?

Looks like the Irish, well intentioned as they seem to have been, were hoodwinked by forces with ulterior motives and not only not intent on peace, were ready for confrontation.

Pity they were dragged into the conflict, and these immature idealists were ,it seems to me, used as pawns to promote a PR exercise for terrorists.

Well intentioned but way out of their depth ,it seems to me.

prinz

Fuhrer wrote: »

It does?

Why would they bother using stun guns, rubber bullets and manual force? If they were just going to kill anyone who got in their way...

paulaa

Has anyone seen this video ? Disgusting !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMzc1N1Cx3s&feature=player_embedded

dlofnep

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread but I'm sure the usual suspects and barrack room activists are in there.

Look, after digesting all the propaganda from both sides,what we have here from an Irish point of view is, it seems to me anyway, is a naive bunch of idealists who got in above their depth.

Looks like that Turkish ship was infiltrated by a bunch of hardliners who didn't want peace, just aggro. Time will put out all these findings.

Several other vessels were stopped and no problems. Why so?

Looks like the Irish, well intentioned as they seem to have been, were hoodwinked by forces with ulterior motives and not only not intent on peace, were ready for confrontation.

Pity they were dragged into the conflict, and these immature idealists were ,it seems to me, used as pawns to promote a PR exercise for terrorists.

Well intentioned but way out of their depth ,it seems to me.

It would appear that these "idealists" have got there way, as Egypt has no opened their borders for aid.

You forget to mention a few things.

1) What Israel did was illegal.

2) Israel would have had the opportunity to investigate the cargo at port. They chose not to, and instead send out a team of commandos armed with rifles.

3) The cargo was checked prior to departing. Israel had no need to intervene in the legitimate aid.

dlofnep

paulaa wrote: »

Has anyone seen this video ? Disgusting !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMzc1N1Cx3s&feature=player_embedded

I have, and it just proves how ingrained irrational hatred is embedded in Israeli society.

wes

paulaa wrote: »

Has anyone seen this video ? Disgusting !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMzc1N1Cx3s&feature=player_embedded

Yes, and its pretty shameful display by some Israeli's.

gandalf

Irish Government have officially condemned the Israelis.

Details below.

Government officially condemns Israeli raid on aid ships


01/06/2010 - 15:38:40
The Government has officialy moved to condemn the Israeli assault yesterday on aid ships bound for Gaza during which nine people were killed.

Five Irish passport holders remain in a detention centre in Israel after their vessels were seized by commandos in international waters.

Its still not known if any received injuries during the incident.

Backed by the Government, Foreign Affairs Minister Micheál Martin today issued a series of demands, which included the immediate and unconditional release of the Irish citizens.

The Minister's proposals included:

* Condemn the actions by the Israeli military as completely unacceptable and disproportionate and stemming directly from the illegal Israeli blockade of Gaza which the Minister and Government has repeatedly urged should be ended;

* Call for a full, independent and international enquiry into yesterday’s events, preferably under UN auspices;

* Call for the immediate and unconditional release of all the Irish citizens detained by Israel and for the Israeli government to respect its international obligations under the Vienna Convention and ensure full consular access by Irish Embassy officials to those detained;

* Call upon the Israeli government to allow the Irish owned vessel, the MV Rachel Corrie, to complete its humanitarian voyage to Gaza peacefully and without any attempt to impede its journey and to be allowed discharge its humanitarian cargo in Gaza upon arrival;

* Express its deep condolences to the Turkish government and to the families of all those killed in yesterday’s events as well as to those injured.

"The Government agreed fully with these points," said the statement from the Department of Foreign Affairs.

"It also agreed that the Minister for Foreign Affairs should continue to liaise closely with EU colleagues on the current situation and all necessary steps to achieve a peaceful resolution."

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/government-officially-condemns-israeli-raid-on-aid-ships-459986.html#ixzz0pc8QiDwu

Now if we only could get the US to make the same sort of statement we might get somewhere. (Yes I realise that ain't going to happen!).

Floppybits

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Yes I too am applauded by the mass death camps... no wait

Oh hang on a sec there Rev Hellfire, lets just see how things started before death camps.

1. Jewish people treated like second class citizens - Is that no similar to how the Jewish people treat the Palestinians

2. Jewish people forced to live in ghettos - Well there are a few people who reckon that Gaza would be similar to this.

and I think if Israel got its way it would be just stopping short of death camps. They certainly learned alot from the nazi's.

Selkies

paulaa wrote: »

Has anyone seen this video ? Disgusting !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMzc1N1Cx3s&feature=player_embedded

It's not a celebration, it's a counter protest.

They are saying that it's not the IDF's fault.

There were protests in Israel against the flotilla fiasco just like there were around the world.

IrishTonyO

Selkies wrote: »

It's not a celebration, it's a counter protest.

They are saying that it's not the IDF's fault.

There were protests in Israel against the flotilla fiasco just like there were around the world.

where else were there protests around the world against the flotilla ??

alastair

Condemn the actions by the Israeli military as completely unacceptable and disproportionate and stemming directly from the illegal Israeli blockade of Gaza which the Minister and Government has repeatedly urged should be ended;

That should remove any lingering ambiguity on the state's position as to the legality of the blockade for prinz.

paulaa

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread but I'm sure the usual suspects and barrack room activists are in there.

Look, after digesting all the propaganda from both sides,what we have here from an Irish point of view is, it seems to me anyway, is a naive bunch of idealists who got in above their depth.

Looks like that Turkish ship was infiltrated by a bunch of hardliners who didn't want peace, just aggro. Time will put out all these findings.

Several other vessels were stopped and no problems. Why so?

Looks like the Irish, well intentioned as they seem to have been, were hoodwinked by forces with ulterior motives and not only not intent on peace, were ready for confrontation.

Pity they were dragged into the conflict, and these immature idealists were ,it seems to me, used as pawns to promote a PR exercise for terrorists.

Well intentioned but way out of their depth ,it seems to me.

What an insulting post !!! No one was forced on board those ships. They are decent and compassionate people who are willing to put their lives on hold to help others. I do not believe they are in anyway "hoodwinked", they know exactly how Israel behaves towards those who disagree with their "policies" . These are intelligent and well educated people and Iapplaud each and everyone of them.

They are certainly more intelligent than the state of Israel who have now shown themselves and their m o to the world as never before. Bad move Israel and don't whine when there are consequences !!

prinz

alastair wrote: »

That should remove any lingering ambiguity on the state's position as to the legality of the blockade for prinz.

When did I question the legality of the blockade? The legality of confronting these ships is a different issue. They don't have to both be legal or both be illegal.

Byron85

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Yes I too am applauded by the mass death camps... no wait

The following video is relevant. If anyone has the right to refer to the Holocaust, Israel and Palestine, it's Finkelstein.

Ardent

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread but I'm sure the usual suspects and barrack room activists are in there.

Look, after digesting all the propaganda from both sides,what we have here from an Irish point of view is, it seems to me anyway, is a naive bunch of idealists who got in above their depth.

Looks like that Turkish ship was infiltrated by a bunch of hardliners who didn't want peace, just aggro. Time will put out all these findings.

Several other vessels were stopped and no problems. Why so?

Looks like the Irish, well intentioned as they seem to have been, were hoodwinked by forces with ulterior motives and not only not intent on peace, were ready for confrontation.

Pity they were dragged into the conflict, and these immature idealists were ,it seems to me, used as pawns to promote a PR exercise for terrorists.

Well intentioned but way out of their depth ,it seems to me.

Agree with this.

Memnoch

prinz wrote: »

When did I question the legality of the blockade? The legality of confronting these ships is a different issue. They don't have to both be legal or both be illegal.

Any action in support of an illegal action is automatically illegal.

You cannot maintain an illegal blockade through legal means, that's the definition of a paradox.

paulaa

dlofnep wrote: »

I have, and it just proves how ingrained irrational hatred is embedded in Israeli society.

It's the same as when Israelis brought their families to the borders of Gaza to picnic and cheer as another bomb was dropped on the trapped people in the strip.

Rev Hellfire

Floppybits wrote: »

1. Jewish people treated like second class citizens - Is that no similar to how the Jewish people treat the Palestinians

I'd be inclined to agree with you if you where talking about Israeli-Arabs.

Floppybits wrote: »

2. Jewish people forced to live in ghettos - Well there are a few people who reckon that Gaza would be similar to this.

I think its different for a few reasons, the blockade is in direct response to the aggression coming from Gaza. For example the west-bank is not subject to the same oppression. Like it or not, the keys to ending this are in the hands of Hamas and the citizens of Gaza.

Thats not to say Israel is blameless, far from it. But comparing them to the Nazis is a step to far.

FlutterinBantam

dlofnep wrote: »

It would appear that these "idealists" have got there way, as Egypt has no opened their borders for aid.

You forget to mention a few things.

1) What Israel did was illegal.

2) Israel would have had the opportunity to investigate the cargo at port. They chose not to, and instead send out a team of commandos armed with rifles.

3) The cargo was checked prior to departing. Israel had no need to intervene in the legitimate aid.

Their.

To be decided.

Israel offered them a port Ashdod but the flotilla refused.

Checked prior to departure!!! who checked it:)


The usual suspects are on the Rachel Corrie including Butterly and really these people are pissing against the wind.

Shunt out the terrorist Hamas lads and everything will be ok.

IrishTonyO

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Their.

To be decided.

Israel offered them a port Ashdod but the flotilla refused.

Checked prior to departure!!! who checked it:)


The usual suspects are on the Rachel Corrie including Butterly and really these people are pissing against the wind.

Shunt out the terrorist Hamas lads and everything will be ok.

Here is a list of the people on board the Rachel Corrie, care to tell us who the usual suspects are????? They include nobel peace prize winners ex UN Assistant Secretary-General

http://aliabunimah.posterous.com/list-of-passengers-aboard-mv-rachel-corrie-en

mrboswell

Selkies wrote: »

It's not a celebration, it's a counter protest.

They are saying that it's not the IDF's fault.

There were protests in Israel against the flotilla fiasco just like there were around the world.

BULLS@@T - looked like a celebration to me

wes

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Shunt out the terrorist Hamas lads and everything will be ok.

Nonsense, Israel is still stealing land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, where Fatah is in charge. Israel has shown about as much interest in peace, as Hamas, which is to say very little.

the_syco

paulaa wrote: »

They are certainly more intelligent than the state of Israel who have now shown themselves and their m o to the world as never before. Bad move Israel and don't whine when there are consequences !!

The other ships stopped peacefully, this ship didn't. Don't know why it didn't, but it didn't. So the IDF go on board to forcefully stop it, and the moment they get onto the ship, they get attacked with iron bars. May have been only a small percentage of them doing this, and they got what they wanted: retaliation by the IDF.

Israel stopped giving a damn what anyone thought about them a long time ago, and the latest incident won't matter a whole lot to them.

mrboswell

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Their.

To be decided.

Israel offered them a port Ashdod but the flotilla refused.

Checked prior to departure!!! who checked it:)


The usual suspects are on the Rachel Corrie including Butterly and really these people are pissing against the wind.

Shunt out the terrorist Hamas lads and everything will be ok.

You have it wrong - shunt out the Israelis and everything will be ok.
They shouldn't be there in the first place...

Memnoch

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Their.

To be decided.

Israel offered them a port Ashdod but the flotilla refused.

Nonsense, lies and deception. The Israelis aren't interested in checking for weapons, they are only interested in leveling collective punishment against the people of gaza by denying them the aid they need. (according to the UN less than a quarter of what is required is being allowed through)

The reason the flotilla refused the offer is because the Israelis would still keep a tight control over the flow of aid and still arbitrarily deny the people of gaza basic items such as pencils, equipment to build water treatment plants and even PASTA, which we all know is really rocket fuel for those missiles.

Checked prior to departure!!! who checked it:)

By the governments of Cyprus and Turkey. The flotilla also agreed to let the Israeli's check it. But the Israelis aren't interested in checking they want to stop the aid and limit the amount going in to punish the people of Gaza in contravention of the fourth geneva convention of human rights.

Shunt out the terrorist Hamas lads and everything will be ok.

Typical Israeli apologist nonsense propaganda.

Scofflaw

Enough of the "you started it...no, you started it" routine.

moderately,
Scofflaw