Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

IrishTonyO

the_syco wrote: »

The other ships stopped peacefully, this ship didn't. Don't know why it didn't, but it didn't. So the IDF go on board to forcefully stop it, and the moment they get onto the ship, they get attacked with iron bars. May have been only a small percentage of them doing this, and they got what they wanted: retaliation by the IDF.

Israel stopped giving a damn what anyone thought about them a long time ago, and the latest incident won't matter a whole lot to them.

This was the first ship attacked, of course the other ships would stop peacefully after hearing of people being murdered on the first ship.

gandalf

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread but I'm sure the usual suspects and barrack room activists are in there.

Oh without a doubt people have dug their trenches

Look, after digesting all the propaganda from both sides,what we have here from an Irish point of view is, it seems to me anyway, is a naive bunch of idealists who got in above their depth.

You know part of me agrees with you. But also reading the short bios of alot of the international members of the flotilla quite a few had done these kind of aid missions before either getting through to Gaza or being turned away by the Israelis.

I think they assumed that they would be dealt with in the same manner this time.

Looks like that Turkish ship was infiltrated by a bunch of hardliners who didn't want peace, just aggro. Time will put out all these findings.

Several other vessels were stopped and no problems. Why so?

TBH if they were looking for aggro they were woefully prepared for it. A couple of knives, the cutlery tray from the kitchen and a tool box is no match for one of the deadliest military forces in the world.

I would say there was trouble on this ship because it was the biggest and had around 500-600 people on it. The other ships were smaller and would have been easier to manage.

Looks like the Irish, well intentioned as they seem to have been, were hoodwinked by forces with ulterior motives and not only not intent on peace, were ready for confrontation.

Again the indication from the paltry "sophisticated" weapons cache presented by IDF TV paints a totally different picture.

Pity they were dragged into the conflict, and these immature idealists were ,it seems to me, used as pawns to promote a PR exercise for terrorists.

Well intentioned but way out of their depth ,it seems to me.

The only people who have handed the terrorists a PR coup are the hawks in the Israeli Government and IDF with their illegal operation in International Waters and there extremely heavy handed boarding operation with resulted in peoples deaths and extremely clumsy media handling of the aftermath.

We still don't know how many were killed or injured.

dlofnep

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

To be decided.

It has already been decided. Academic scholars and politicians around the world have stated that it was illegal.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Israel offered them a port Ashdod but the flotilla refused.

Israel has no legal right to dictate anything whilst they are in international waters.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Checked prior to departure!!! who checked it:)

Turkish officials. If you're suggesting that the cargo had anything other than aid, I'd like to see evidence for it. Otherwise, you can leave your pontificating for someone else.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The usual suspects are on the Rachel Corrie including Butterly and really these people are pissing against the wind.

Pissing in the end, yet today Egypt opened it's borders? Hardly constitutes as pissing in the wind. And for those who you labelled as idealists - they gave their lives so that aid could reach the Gazan people. you should show a bit more respect to people who are willing to do a little more than spend time on boards, accusing people of being kerb-painters and idealists.

Selkies

IrishTonyO wrote: »

where else were there protests around the world against the flotilla ??

No the flotilla fiasco, not the flotilla itself. People were protesting the deaths of people on the flotilla in Israel just like everywhere else in the world is what I was saying, and what is called a celebration couldn't be further from the truth, this puts Israel in a terrible situation. That is a counter protest, a protest against the notion that the IDF were responsible for the deaths of the people on the flotilla.

mrboswell

Did you see the israeli deputy ambassador to Ireland on the front line last night describing knives as deadly, sophisticated weapons!!!

Lets be honest - people start dropping out of the sky in the dark from a helicopter in the early hours of the morning (bear in mind these are the people who seem to shoot first, ask questions later) it is perfectly understandable that you would try to defend yourself.

BluePlanet

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The usual suspects are on the Rachel Corrie including Butterly and really these people are pissing against the wind.

Shunt out the terrorist Hamas lads and everything will be ok.

Denis Halliday is on the Rachael Corrie

Memnoch

the_syco wrote: »

The other ships stopped peacefully, this ship didn't. Don't know why it didn't, but it didn't. So the IDF go on board to forcefully stop it, and the moment they get onto the ship, they get attacked with iron bars. May have been only a small percentage of them doing this, and they got what they wanted: retaliation by the IDF.

You are GROSSLY misinformed.

1) The other ships stopped "peacefully" because they recieved communication from the LEAD ship of what the Israeli's were up to. Despite this the taking of the other ships was far from PEACEFUL.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/2010/06/20106193546785656.html

Dimitris Gielalis, Greece
Suddenly from everywhere we saw inflatables coming at us, and within seconds fully equipped commandos came up on the boat.

They came up and used plastic bullets, we had beatings, we had electric shocks, any method we can think of, they used.

Gielalis was on board the ship Sfendoni.

2) The following video shows dead and injured on the lead ship before the Israeli soldiers took control.

http://www9.gazetevatan.com/israil-turk-bayrakli-yardim-gemisinde-olum-kustu/308396/1/Gundem

You can also see an inflatable passing the side of the ships. You can hear gun fire and you can see the cameraman ducking. The brief English report from the press TV journalist is about 30 seconds or so into the video.

I'm sure there is a lot more evidence but as the following Al Jazeera journailst reports this was destroyed by the Israelis who continue to hold many people in detention to delay their stories from being relayed to the world.

Issam Zaatar, Al Jazeera cameraman

I was filming, and then he [an Israeli solider] ran after me with a stun gun.

He could not catch me. One of his colleagues hit my hand from behind with a stun gun. My camera fell down. He ran to crush the camera with his feet.

I told him, don't break my camera. If you want the tapes, I will give them to you. I told him these are media equipment. They had no limits.

They used rubber bullets. They used tear gas bombs. It was an unbelievable scene.

3) By attacking a ship carrying humanitarian aid in INTERNATIONAL waters, in the MIDDLE of the night, by ARMED commandos, it is the ISRAELIS who provoked the confrontation, and it is THEY who achieved what they wanted, which is to strike fear in the hearts of those who might try to bring aid to gaza by murdering innocent aid workers.

BluePlanet

Here's what some of the Yanks are saying.

The "Aid" Flotilla: Yet Another Muslim Act of Aggression and Raw Evil


Posted on 01 June 2010 16:31:01 by Zanton
All those "humanitarians" on the Turkish/Gazan armada were anti-Western, anti-freedom savages, and ENEMY JIHADIS of Israel. Not only should all the boats have been sunk, in my view, but the responsible parties in Gaza and Turkey should have been heavily bombed in retaliation, as well. This open, brazen, shameless attempt to bring "aid" to Hamasistan and their neo-Nazi citizenry was an ACT OF WAR. It should have been dealt with as such.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-rlc/2525255/posts

Rather illuminating huh?

FlutterinBantam

dlofnep wrote: »

.



. you should show a bit more respect to people who are willing to do a little more than spend time on boards, accusing people of being kerb-painters and idealists.

Listened to the parents of those activists who chose to 'put it out' and refuse deportation this morning.

What struck me is these immature idealists got sucked into the 'big game' and got out of their depth.

I felt sorry for their parents who, while they obviously defended them, and rightly so, subliminally indicated the fact that they were headstrong easily influenced people who got in over their heads.

Memnoch

To attack honourable, decent people, who put their lives on the line to bring alms to the desperately needy, in order to rationalize the brutality that these innocent aid workers were subjected to is surely the last bastion of the cowardly.

IrishTonyO

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Listened to the parents of those activists who chose to 'put it out' and refuse deportation this morning.

What struck me is these immature idealists got sucked into the 'big game' and got out of their depth.

I felt sorry for their parents who, while they obviously defended them, and rightly so, subliminally indicated the fact that they were headstrong easily influenced people who got in over their heads.

They were taken from International waters to Israel and then to be deported asked to sign documents that they had entered Israel illegally and also waive any right to sue. The Israeli army brought them to Israel they had no intention of going there!!

P. Breathnach

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

... I felt sorry for their parents who, while they obviously defended them, and rightly so, subliminally indicated the fact that they were headstrong easily influenced people who got in over their heads.

Subliminally? You mean that you are reading into what they said a meaning that they did not articulate?

the_syco

IrishTonyO wrote: »

This was the first ship attacked, of course the other ships would stop peacefully after hearing of people being murdered on the first ship.

Cheers for the info.

Byron85

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Listened to the parents of those activists who chose to 'put it out' and refuse deportation this morning.

What struck me is these immature idealists got sucked into the 'big game' and got out of their depth.

I felt sorry for their parents who, while they obviously defended them, and rightly so, subliminally indicated the fact that they were headstrong easily influenced people who got in over their heads.

Really?? Micheal Martin seems to disagree with you.

But Minister Martin said he has told the Israeli Ambassador Dr Zion Evrony that the Government wants these Irish citizens released immediately.

"The Israeli government requires people to sign papers so that they can be deported," Minister Martin said. "But of course these people did not enter Israel illegally.

"They were essentially kidnapped from international waters, taken into Israel.. And now they are being asked to sign a document almost confirming that they entered illegally.

"And we think that is unacceptable.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/martin-irish-citizens-kidnapped-in-international-waters-459870.html#ixzz0pcJ4frGf

You know best though. :rolleyes:

IrishTonyO

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Subliminally? You mean that you are reading into what they said a meaning that they did not articulate?

+1

FlutterinBantam

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Subliminally? You mean that you are reading into what they said a meaning that they did not articulate?

yes, I think that's what it means.;)

dlofnep

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Listened to the parents of those activists who chose to 'put it out' and refuse deportation this morning.

What struck me is these immature idealists got sucked into the 'big game' and got out of their depth.

I felt sorry for their parents who, while they obviously defended them, and rightly so, subliminally indicated the fact that they were headstrong easily influenced people who got in over their heads.

They are not idealists. Please, buy a thesaurus. Your repeated babble is almost vomit inducing. They are activists who wish to see an end to the suffering of a people, who do not have sufficient aid, and live in extremely impoverished conditions.

Your use of such ill-intentioned, and horrifically inaccurate words to describe those who wish to end injustice and suffering is not only immature, but hideously self-centered. Grow up.

IrishTonyO

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

yes, I think that's what it means.;)

Great to see you are a mind reader, you do shows anywhere? How can you attribute things to people because you think that's what they felt, even though, they not only did not say it but said almost the exact opposite!

wes

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Listened to the parents of those activists who chose to 'put it out' and refuse deportation this morning.

What struck me is these immature idealists got sucked into the 'big game' and got out of their depth.

I felt sorry for their parents who, while they obviously defended them, and rightly so, subliminally indicated the fact that they were headstrong easily influenced people who got in over their heads.

Poor attempt to smear these people. There good people who were trying to help other people. Your attempts at smeaing them are nothing short of disgusting.

sensibleken

BluePlanet wrote: »

Here's what some of the Yanks are saying.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-rlc/2525255/posts

Rather illuminating huh?

in fairness that guy is clearly nuts and not to be taken as a typical view from middle america.

FlutterinBantam

wes wrote: »

Poor attempt to smear these people. There good people who were trying to help other people. Your attempts at smeaing them are nothing short of disgusting.

No attempt to smear anyone buddy.

Just expressing my opinions on what I heard and interpreted on today's radio.

Perfectly obvious the parents were worried and wondering what was the motivation behind this activism

alastair

prinz wrote: »

When did I question the legality of the blockade? The legality of confronting these ships is a different issue. They don't have to both be legal or both be illegal.

In a number of posts you disputed that any EU state declared it (the blockade) illegal - take your pick - but here's my fave: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66162227&postcount=729

mrboswell

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

No attempt to smear anyone buddy.

Just expressing my opinions on what I heard and interpreted on today's radio.

Perfectly obvious the parents were worried and wondering what was the motivation behind this activism

I disagree - one parent seemed to agree with what one son was doing.

Don't hold it against him that he's in his 70's and couldn't jump onboard

wes

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

No attempt to smear anyone buddy.

Just expressing my opinions on what I heard and interpreted on today's radio.

Sorry, but it a pretty damn blatant smear. You are accusing these people of all sorts of rubbish, and hiding behind your opinion.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Perfectly obvious the parents were worried and wondering what was the motivation behind this activism

Yes, and I disagree with your conclusions about the people on the floatilla.

P. Breathnach

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

No attempt to smear anyone buddy.

Just expressing my opinions on what I heard and interpreted on today's radio.

Perfectly obvious the parents were worried and wondering what was the motivation behind this activism

I wonder if we heard the same parents. I heard people who were concerned for the welfare of their offspring, but proud of what they were doing.

FlutterinBantam

dlofnep wrote: »

They are not idealists. Please, buy a thesaurus. Your repeated babble is almost vomit inducing. They are activists who wish to see an end to the suffering of a people, who do not have sufficient aid, and live in extremely impoverished conditions.

Your use of such ill-intentioned, and horrifically inaccurate words to describe those who wish to end injustice and suffering is not only immature, but hideously self-centered. Grow up.

Insulting someone will not advance your cause.

For once take off the 'downtrodden' glasses and look at the bigger picture.

I have deliberately not come to 'conclusion' until all the facts emerge.

You might do well to adopt the same modus operandi.

FlutterinBantam

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I wonder if we heard the same parents. I heard people who were concerned for the welfare of their offspring, but proud of what they were doing.

Yes, that's a fair comment, but did you listen to what was unsaid?

mrboswell

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Insulting someone will not advance your cause.

For once take off the 'downtrodden' glasses and look at the bigger picture.

I have deliberately not come to 'conclusion' until all the facts emerge.

You might do well to adopt the same modus operandi.

Hold on you are saying "I heard a radio interview so I know all the facts"?

Next you'll be telling me what I'm thinking......

IrishTonyO

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Yes, that's a fair comment, but did you listen to what was unsaid?

Did we listen to what was unsaid??? What sort of bull is that????

IrishTonyO

German witness on board reports coming out

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10208027.stm