Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

Fuhrer

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I have deliberately not come to 'conclusion' until all the facts emerge.

You might do well to adopt the same modus operandi.

Youve already come tot he conclusion that they are immature and out of their depth without even waiting for them to be released and have their say.

Ardent

Micháel Martin is some muppet. Does he really think - given everything that has happened in the past 36 hours - that Israel are going to take heed of him and let the Rachel Corrie through the blockade?

I somehow see Martin losing face over this before Israel does.

karma_

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Did we listen to what was unsaid??? What sort of bull is that????

Ach now, FB can pick things up 'subliminally' didn't yee know?

Fuhrer

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Did we listen to what was unsaid??? What sort of bull is that????

I noticed how involvement from the Illumaniti was unsaid...

sceptre

I'd like a lot more calm on this thread compared to the most recent page or two. Also less personalisation of the discussion.

/mod

paulaa

Selkies wrote: »

It's not a celebration, it's a counter protest.

They are saying that it's not the IDF's fault.

There were protests in Israel against the flotilla fiasco just like there were around the world.

There were no protest against the flotilla anywhere else that i've seen. Why would anyone only those filled with hatred and with a bloodlust protest humanitarian aid ?

IrishTonyO

Ardent wrote: »

Micháel Martin is some muppet. Does he really think - given everything that has happened in the past 36 hours - that Israel are going to take heed of him and let the Rachel Corrie through the blockade?

I somehow see Martin losing face over this before Israel does.

Micahel Martin has taken the decent and moral line with this, like most right thinking people not only in Ireland but across the world

dlofnep

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Insulting someone will not advance your cause.

For once take off the 'downtrodden' glasses and look at the bigger picture.

I have deliberately not come to 'conclusion' until all the facts emerge.

You might do well to adopt the same modus operandi.

I wasn't discussing your "conclusion".

I was discussing your choice of words - labeling humanitarian activists as idealists. It was a poor choice of words, and is completely inaccurate.

Ardent

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Micahel Martin has taken the decent and moral line with this, like most right thinking people not only in Ireland but across the world

That's not what I talking about. I'm talking about the "ultimatum" he issued.

IrishTonyO

Ardent wrote: »

That's not what I talking about. I'm talking about the "ultimatum" he issued.

He is right to issue an ultimatum if he wants to on behalf of Irish citizens kidnapped and detained in International waters.

Fuhrer

Ardent wrote: »

That's not what I talking about. I'm talking about the "ultimatum" he issued.

The Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs looks like a muppet for issuing an ultimatum that any Irish citizens should not be stopped by a blockade that his own government said was illegal?

Kid Curry

wes wrote: »

Poor attempt to smear these people. There good people who were trying to help other people. Your attempts at smeaing them are nothing short of disgusting.

Why is it that anyone who has an opinion other than an anti-Israeli one, everyone jumps down their throats and starts patting each other on the back and thanking each other left right and centre.

What happens when there is a two state solution, will Palestine stop firing missiles into Israel? Or it will be interseting to see if a Palestinian state will have equal rights for women? What will these activists stance be on those inevitable outcomes, and why are these activists so slow to condemn rocket attacks on Israel? Be that as it may, problem with the Palestinian movement is that it's hijacked by terrorists and idealists who think the cause is "right on" and makes them look good around college campus while they don a keffiyeh. Bottom line is, if the Arabs laid down their guns there would be no more violence, if Israel laid down their guns there would be no more Israel.

IrishTonyO

Fuhrer wrote: »

The Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs looks like a muppet for issuing an ultimatum that any Irish citizens should not be stopped by a blockade that his own government said was illegal?

why?

prinz

Kid Curry wrote: »

Why is it that anyone who has an opinion other than an anti-Israeli one, everyone jumps down their throats and starts patting each other on the back and thanking each other left right and centre..

..because it's cool to be 100% anti-Israel.

Kid Curry

Fuhrer wrote: »

The Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs looks like a muppet for issuing an ultimatum that any Irish citizens should not be stopped by a blockade that his own government said was illegal?

He is a muppet. Irish minister for finance is not in a position to issue ultimatums to anyone. Israel would bulldoze right over us in a heartbeat.

paulaa

the_syco wrote: »

The other ships stopped peacefully, this ship didn't. Don't know why it didn't, but it didn't. So the IDF go on board to forcefully stop it, and the moment they get onto the ship, they get attacked with iron bars. May have been only a small percentage of them doing this, and they got what they wanted: retaliation by the IDF.

Israel stopped giving a damn what anyone thought about them a long time ago, and the latest incident won't matter a whole lot to them.

Why should it have stopped, Israel has no jurisdiction over Gazan waters, only in it's own mind.
The IDF started shooting before they got onto the ship.

It has been quite obvious for a long that Israel is a rogue state, ignoring and breaking treaties it has signed up to, breaking international law at will and completely disregarding human rights, you know, those little things that real democracies try to live by.

Cast Lead was a PR disaster for Israel and this attack on unarmed civilians is another. I wouldn't bank on this not mattering to them . They have lost their only ally in the area, Turkey. They are being condemned around the world like never before. South Africa thought they could get away with anything too.

IrishTonyO

Kid Curry wrote: »

He is a muppet. Irish minister for finance is not in a position to issue ultimatums to anyone. Israel would bulldoze right over us in a heartbeat.

He is the Minister for Foreign affairs, our finance minister is brian Lenihan!

FlutterinBantam

prinz wrote: »

..because it's cool to be 100% anti-Israel.

Hmmmm..... immature maybe....cool....no;)

Kid Curry

IrishTonyO wrote: »

He is the Minister for Foreign affairs, our finance minister is brian Lenihan!

When all else fails, attack my mistakes.

alastair

Kid Curry wrote: »

Bottom line is, if the Arabs laid down their guns there would be no more violence, if Israel laid down their guns there would be no more Israel.

Slogan alert!

And no doubt, if the Turks laid down their deckchairs and sticks, they wouldn't get gunned down on the high seas? Sounds like a really reasonable arrangement to me.

youcrazyjesus!

Kid Curry wrote: »

Why is it that anyone who has an opinion other than an anti-Israeli one, everyone jumps down their throats and starts patting each other on the back and thanking each other left right and centre.

What happens when there is a two state solution, will Palestine stop firing missiles into Israel? Or it will be interseting to see if a Palestinian state will have equal rights for women? What will these activists stance be on those inevitable outcomes, and why are these activists so slow to condemn rocket attacks on Israel? Be that as it may, problem with the Palestinian movement is that it's hijacked by terrorists and idealists who think the cause is "right on" and makes them look good around college campus while they don a keffiyeh. Bottom line is, if the Arabs laid down their guns there would be no more violence, if Israel laid down their guns there would be no more Israel.

The conflict did not begin with people firing missiles into Israel a couple of years ago. This makes me genuinely angry; land was stolen unashamedly and the Arabised population is now being kept in giant prison camps called the West Bank and the Gaza Strip and today we have several missiles being fired defining the conflict for a lot of people. It's a twisting of reality that makes me sick to my stomach.

Run_to_da_hills

Israel releases footage of "weapons" haul 'found' on Gaza peace ship.

If Israel can piece together a few dozen fake sofisticated passports surely putting together a few weapons on a table would be no problem to them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1283077/Israeli-Gaza-aid-flotilla-raid-British-families-face-anxious-wait-news.html

alastair

Kid Curry wrote: »

Israel would bulldoze right over us in a heartbeat.

They're moving on from young ones?

gandalf

Kid Curry wrote: »

Why is it that anyone who has an opinion other than an anti-Israeli one, everyone jumps down their throats and starts patting each other on the back and thanking each other left right and centre.

I don't see that happening at all. If people are able to reason their opinion logically then they will be respected.

What happens when there is a two state solution, will Palestine stop firing missiles into Israel?

It shouldn't firing missiles into Israel at all.

Or it will be interseting to see if a Palestinian state will have equal rights for women?

I would hope so but is this one of Israels demands to end the blockade that has been called by many an illegal one?

What will these activists stance be on those inevitable outcomes, and why are these activists so slow to condemn rocket attacks on Israel?

Not sure what their stances are on those. If they are right minded people like most of use I am sure they will have no problem condemning the murderous intent of sending missiles into Israel with the aim of maiming and killing civilians. Maybe you should ask them?

Be that as it may, problem with the Palestinian movement is that it's hijacked by terrorists and idealists who think the cause is "right on" and makes them look good around college campus while they don a keffiyeh.

I am sure that is accurate for some of the supporters. But from reading about an awful lot of the other supporters they seem to come from all walks of life and from a variety of countries. It would be overly simplistic and unfair to say they are all influenced by terrorists.

Bottom line is, if the Arabs laid down their guns there would be no more violence, if Israel laid down their guns there would be no more Israel.

Bottom line is if Israel showed some restraint and some humanity it would choke Hamas and other organisations like them of the oxygen of support and make the Middle East a safer place to live for everyone. If you treat a whole section of your society like dogs don't be surprised if they bite you.

A very good start would be to abide by International Law and not attack ships of a allied nation in International Waters would it not.

youcrazyjesus!

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

No attempt to smear anyone buddy.

Just expressing my opinions on what I heard and interpreted on today's radio.

Perfectly obvious the parents were worried and wondering what was the motivation behind this activism

Your posts are so immature and venomous it leaps off the screen at me.


(Sorry Mod but his posts are genuinely nasty)

alastair

paulaa wrote: »

Why should it have stopped, Israel has no jurisdiction over Gazan waters, only in it's own mind.

That, and the treaty agreement it got the PA to sign up to in '95, and which still stands as a legal interim arrangement.

Foxtrol

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Micahel Martin has taken the decent and moral line with this, like most right thinking people not only in Ireland but across the world

The guy who cant sort out getting Irish citizens passports but thinks he can solve the issues in the middle east.

Israel obviously took the wrong route here in tackling the situation, as they have many times before. I however think some posters have a lack of empathy with some on the passengers on the boats as they see this as a blown up version of what we see during protests throughout Europe when small minority in a protest go looking to provoke the police and innocent people get caught in the crossfire. I know Israel didnt have jurisdiction as a police force would but I believe some on these boats wanted a situation like this to occur were the IDF would over react. (Obviously I'd hope no one wanted lives to be lost)

Manic Moran

I believe the turks do have a more sophisticated navy that the israelies.
Check it out, the Turks are one of the top 10 military's powers in the world,
very moderinised equipment and have alot more soldiers than israels
so would be well able to take care of themselves.

The Turkish military is far larger than Israel's, yes, but I would be hard-pressed to say it is more sophisticated in any branch. Most of the Turkish Navy with the exception of some Mekos and their submarines are ex-US Navy equipment transferred over after the US took them out of service. Their tanks are predominantly second-hand German Leopards or old American M60s upgraded with Israeli technology. None of their aircraft are up to current Israeli specs, indeed a large number of the older aircraft are again upgraded by the Israelis with Israeli equipment. In terms of surveillance and electronic technology, I'd say the pendulum is decidedly in Israel's favour, at least as long as we're talking actions near Israel.

Either way, this is I believe purely academic as I'd be astounded if it came to blows between them.

Israels siege clearly violating the above resolution, and hence illegal.

The resolution 'calling for' is an expression of disapproval, but not a declaration of illegality. I can 'call for' an end to the feud between the Hatfields and the McCoys, but that doesn't mean that the feud itself is illegal. (Yes, I know they've since buried the hatchet). The UN may have declared the blockade illegal, but it wasn't in that resolution you posted.

NTM

wes

Kid Curry wrote: »

Why is it that anyone who has an opinion other than an anti-Israeli one, everyone jumps down their throats and starts patting each other on the back and thanking each other left right and centre.

Plenty of people disagreeing with one another on this thread.....-

Kid Curry wrote: »

What happens when there is a two state solution, will Palestine stop firing missiles into Israel? Or it will be interseting to see if a Palestinian state will have equal rights for women?

Off topic whataboutery.

Kid Curry wrote: »

What will these activists stance be on those inevitable outcomes, and why are these activists so slow to condemn rocket attacks on Israel?

Why are Israel's supporters so slow to condemn the illegal siege, and the murder of these activists?

Kid Curry wrote: »

Be that as it may, problem with the Palestinian movement is that it's hijacked by terrorists and idealists who think the cause is "right on" and makes them look good around college campus while they don a keffiyeh. Bottom line is, if the Arabs laid down their guns there would be no more violence, if Israel laid down their guns there would be no more Israel.

Nonsense, land is still being stolen in the West Bank, even though Hamas are not there. Also, calling one side to lay down arms and not the other is absurd.

IrishTonyO

"If any harm comes to any of our citizens it will have the most serious consequences", said Brian Cowen in the Dail this evening.
On TV3 News now they are saying all the people detained are denying Israeli claims that IDF were fired on first and that there were no weapons on the ships.