Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

karma_

Grumpypants wrote: »

Very true the idiots that organised this flotilla and sent those people into a potentiality life threatening situation. These are the only people to blame. They knew what they where doing they knew what would happen if they did it.

The quotes are because i believe AID workers would be more interested in getting the AID to the needy people than making a big international incident about it and would have ensured the AID got there by going through the correct channels like the Red cross do every day.

Seriously now. Seriously.

bambooze

dlofnep wrote: »

Moreover - Why did Israel confiscate tapes and photos of the events?

My guess is that given that pretty much everyone on board was anti-israel, any incriminating vids or photos they may have had would never have seen the light of day. So its quite logical for the IDF to grab every cam and phone on board to ensure that can't happen. As we are seeing now those vids taken on board are starting to be released.

Of course you will all assume the IDF will also then just hide anything that shows them in a bad light.. either way they can't really win here.

I'd like to know where were the reporters from respectable news orgs on board? Was there no bbc crew or anyone like that? Only al jazeera and turkish tv?

gandalf

Grumpypants wrote: »

Very true the idiots that organised this flotilla and sent those people into a potentiality life threatening situation. These are the only people to blame. They knew what they where doing they knew what would happen if they did it.

The quotes are because i believe AID workers would be more interested in getting the AID to the needy people than making a big international incident about it and would have ensured the AID got there by going through the correct channels like the Red cross do every day.

No the people that organised this flotilla believed that if they were stopped they would be turned back like previous ships have or they would be let through again like some boats were before.

I doubt that they expected Israel would go nuclear on them like they did.

Who would have thought that troops that have been used in the killing of many militants of the Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades in past would be used to pacify a civilian flotilla?

Who would have thought that Israel would attack a ship in International Waters illegally.

There is one group responsible for this disaster and that is those who ordered shock troops to attack a ship in International Waters.

Scofflaw

Grumpypants wrote: »

Very true the idiots that organised this flotilla and sent those people into a potentiality life threatening situation. These are the only people to blame. They knew what they where doing they knew what would happen if they did it.

The quotes are because i believe AID workers would be more interested in getting the AID to the needy people than making a big international incident about it and would have ensured the AID got there by going through the correct channels like the Red cross do every day.

Those would be the channels through which Gaza gets only quarter of the aid it is estimated to need....as to the flotilla, the aid on board wouldn't make much difference in itself - the point is to place moral pressure on Israel to drop the blockade. Dropping the blockade would mean that Gaza would get the aid it needs - so the big picture is that if you want to get aid to Gaza, the best thing you can do is to help force Israel to abandon its blockade.

cordially,
Scofflaw

bambooze

deadtiger wrote: »

Alternatively this is a video of people repelling illegal boarders on their craft.

It happened in International Waters and was illegal.

Endlessly debatable..

A Dub in Glasgo

bambooze wrote: »

My guess is that given that pretty much everyone on board was anti-israel, any incriminating vids or photos they may have had would never have seen the light of day. So its quite logical for the IDF to grab every cam and phone on board to ensure that can't happen. As we are seeing now those vids taken on board are starting to be released.

The answer is staring you in the face and you do not see it
You are 2 yards out with an open goal yet you do not score

bambooze

IrishTonyO wrote: »

My God! Did you see all their sophisticated weapons!! I assume Israel will tell us a glass bottle is a WMD.
The people on board were doing what they were right to do and trying to stop and illegal invasion/boarding of their vessel.

They dont need laser guidance to be lethal.. feel free to experience such weapons being used on yourself and then trivialize them.

IrishTonyO

bambooze wrote: »

Of course you will all assume the IDF will also then just hide anything that shows them in a bad light.. either way they can't really win here.

Of course they can't win, they were WRONG and committed an illegal act.

IrishTonyO

bambooze wrote: »

They dont need laser guidance to be lethal.. feel free to experience such weapons being used on yourself and then trivialize them.

In that case every object is a lethal weapon, and so are people's hands. get a grip. why did the people on board duck a few times??? Maybe the Israelis had a pencil and that could used a lethal weapon...

gandalf

bambooze wrote: »

Endlessly debatable..

Only by the deluded.

bambooze

IrishTonyO wrote: »

In that case every object is a lethal weapon, and so are people's hands. get a grip. why did the people on board duck a few times??? Maybe the Israelis had a pencil and that could used a lethal weapon...

Well as they say, guns dont kill people, people kill people.

They were armed with weapons, not tickle sticks. Intent was clear

IrishTonyO

bambooze wrote: »

Well as they say, guns dont kill people, people kill people.

and in this the case the people were the IDF, they are the only ones that killed anyone.

IrishTonyO

bambooze wrote: »

Well as they say, guns dont kill people, people kill people.

They were armed with weapons, not tickle sticks. Intent was clear

Yes the intent was to stop an illegal boading of their vessel, it couldn't be clearer.

Mr.Micro

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu stands by raid on ship

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10219391.stm


Well so much for some people on here last night believing that Israel was fit to conduct its own investigation? Netanyahu has already decided.

gandalf

bambooze wrote: »

Well as they say, guns dont kill people, people kill people.

They were armed with weapons, not tickle sticks. Intent was clear

Yet the only people that killed others were IDF troops from a special force unit that is normally used in sea-to-land incursions, assassinations, counter-terrorism, sabotage. Funny that eh!

Again as I have said countless times not the type of assets you would use in a proper Policing operation?

The boarding was an illegal operation, it was botched badly and people paid for it with their lives. Now maybe lies and propaganda are good enough for you but beyond the most deluded outside Israel the majority of people recognise this for what it is. Wrong.

bambooze

IrishTonyO wrote: »

and in this the case the people were the IDF, they are the only ones that killed anyone.

So the fact that several soldiers were beaten with metal bars and seriously injured doesn't count? Only if they had died?

Scofflaw

bambooze wrote: »

Well as they say, guns dont kill people, people kill people.

They were armed with weapons, not tickle sticks. Intent was clear

They were armed with things that are readily available on board a ship - the sort of things you pick up in a makeshift attempt to repel boarders. Crates of plates, poles, kitchen knives - against commandos armed with riot weapons and handguns.

The commandos would only have been dropped in lightly armed if they knew they weren't facing any guns on board, and it was quite true, they weren't, but people picked up what was to hand to repel boarders. They were in the right to do so, even if it seems foolhardy.

regards,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw

bambooze wrote: »

So the fact that several soldiers were beaten with metal bars and seriously injured doesn't count? Only if they had died?

Should they have been there in the first place? Should they have assaulted the vessel by night?

regards,
Scofflaw

halkar

bambooze wrote: »

..
I'd like to know where were the reporters from respectable news orgs on board? Was there no bbc crew or anyone like that? Only al jazeera and turkish tv?

According to an Al Jazeera blogger ..This Flotilla directly affects the lives of 1.5 million Gazans who have been living under siege for over 3 years; in fact it also affects the lives of many Israelis too, as they struggle to cling onto a two faced fallacy of democratic colonisation. It baffles me how some news outlets think the European launch of Apple's i-Pad is more of a story...

gandalf

bambooze wrote: »

So the fact that several soldiers were beaten with metal bars and seriously injured doesn't count? Only if they had died?

The soldiers should not have been on a boat in International Waters.

They were put in danger by their superiors and by Israeli Politicians.

Why did they not wait until the ships got to their territorial waters and made the operation legitimate?

Why did they use troops who normally are involved in sea-to-land incursions, assassinations, counter-terrorism, sabotage and in the past have been used to kill militants from Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades used in an operation against a civilian target? It also appears that the troops were lied to about the make up of the people on the boats saying that 75% of them were terrorists?

Why did they not board the ships during daylight hours?

IrishTonyO

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu stands by raid on ship

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10219391.stm


Well so much for some people on here last night believing that Israel was fit to conduct its own investigation? Netanyahu has already decided.

I found when he said "criticism of the raid is an attack of international hypocrisy." to be so arrogant and unbelievable. When the rest of the world tells you, you are wrong, and you still believe you are right!! It is very rare if ever there is such unanimous condemnation of anything.

karma_

bambooze wrote: »

So the fact that several soldiers were beaten with metal bars and seriously injured doesn't count? Only if they had died?

We get it Bambooze, we know your standing up for the IDF, we can see you scramble at every tenuous excuse that would absolve them of any wrong doing, what about the 9 dead people?

You would seriously have the world believe they brought it upon themselves because they tried to defend their vessel while in international waters?

You can feebly say 'ohh but it shouldn't have happened', but what is the point when you turn around in the next sentence and try to somehow apportion blame on the victims of the bungled raid?

bambooze

Scofflaw wrote: »

They were armed with things that are readily available on board a ship - the sort of things you pick up in a makeshift attempt to repel boarders.

Are you kidding me? Gas masks, flak jackets, metal bars possibly cut from the railings or something like that (with all those cutting machines also found - see earlier photos), wooden clubs, a large array of knives (not just kitchen knives!), petrol bombs and more.. yes all the things one expects to find just lying around on a ship in the middle of the sea. This was planned, they were prepared for fighting.

Mr.Micro

bambooze wrote: »

So the fact that several soldiers were beaten with metal bars and seriously injured doesn't count? Only if they had died?

The IDF were the intruders whose intent was unknown by the legal occupiers of the vessel in international waters . If the law were applied its the IDF who acted illegally and would be seen as the aggressor no matter what the crew on board did as it would be seen as repelling illegal boarders ie pirates. No orther way round it. Wrong is wrong. Now that Eqypt have opened a rote to Gaza what will Israel do about that ? Attack Egypt or raid Gaza next week?

IrishTonyO

bambooze wrote: »

Are you kidding me? Gas masks, flak jackets, metal bars possibly cut from the railings or something like that (with all those cutting machines also found - see earlier photos), wooden clubs, a large array of knives (not just kitchen knives!), petrol bombs and more.. yes all the things one expects to find just lying around on a ship in the middle of the sea. This was planned, they were prepared for fighting.

think you will find the flak jackets are life vests that are onboard every ship

bambooze

IrishTonyO wrote: »

I found when he said "criticism of the raid is an attack of international hypocrisy." to be so arrogant and unbelievable. When the rest of the world tells you, you are wrong, and you still believe you are right!! It is very rare if ever there is such unanimous condemnation of anything.

Was there any official investigation that I missed? Was a court of law convened and a verdict delivered? Or is it just the usual blame israel first, ignore the evidence after thing?

bambooze

IrishTonyO wrote: »

think you will find the flak jackets are life vests that are onboard every ship

No, actual flak jackets (not orange lifejackets) were also found.

halkar

A Turkish ambulance plane have landed to Ankara with 2 injured from flottila attack. One is Turkish and one is Irish citizen. Another 2 planes are on their way with 16 injured.

Can not find English source, from Turkish newspaper transalated by Google

IrishTonyO

bambooze wrote: »

Was there any official investigation that I missed? Was a court of law convened and a verdict delivered? Or is it just the usual blame israel first, ignore the evidence after thing?

Or is it just the usual Israeli response we did nothing wrong, we are the victims. Do you not think it strange the response from practically all the nations in the world is the same??? The entire world is against Israel is it? Even the US their allies condemned it by agreeing to the statement from the UN.

Mr.Micro

IrishTonyO wrote: »

I found when he said "criticism of the raid is an attack of international hypocrisy." to be so arrogant and unbelievable. When the rest of the world tells you, you are wrong, and you still believe you are right!! It is very rare if ever there is such unanimous condemnation of anything.

He was a failed politician even before he took the premiership in recent times. He is bad news for Israel if it wants to move forward instead of being stuck in such an aggressive mode as a response to everything.