Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

doncarlos

bambooze wrote: »

Proof? Turkey has all the bodies, have they said any were shot through the top of the head? I'd have thought they'd waste no time on that if it was true.

Proof indeed as long as they have all the bodies.

The IDF have confiscated all evidence that could prove them guilty. Would they really release a body that would prove them guilty?

bambooze

BluePlanet wrote: »

Another inconsistancy with Israel's position regarding the aid flotilla.

If Israel geniunely believes it has legal authority to board and commandeer those ships, and that the crew's actions to defend those ships was illegal (assaulting IDF), then where are the charges being filed?

Why aren't we hearing about crew members being charged with a crime?

Because they were pressured by the US and Turkey and have more important concerns right now - mainly sanctions on iran. The IDF absolutely wanted to charge them and said as much but political considerations overruled them.

bambooze

doncarlos wrote: »

Proof indeed as long as they have all the bodies.

The IDF have confiscated all evidence that could prove them guilty. Would they really release a body that would prove them guilty?

All bodies are already in turkey and funerals are already in process.. its well out of Israels hands.

paulaa

prinz wrote: »

How does that compare with you claiming their right to exist etc is based on an invisible God and 2000 year old book? Surely that was an attempt to queswtion Israel's right to exist no?

No, it's quite simple, Israel has a right to exist based on the fact that the half the land of the British Mandate in Palestine was given to them by the League of Nations/ UN. That wasn't enough for them so they now use passages from Holy Books to condone the theft of the land that was to be the state of Palestine.

prinz

paulaa wrote: »

No, it's quite simple, Israel has a right to exist based on the fact that the half the land of the British Mandate in Palestine was given to them by the League of Nations/ UN. That wasn't enough for them so they now use passages from Holy Books to condone the theft of the land that was to be the state of Palestine.

Not all Israelis are colonising settlers.

BluePlanet

bambooze wrote: »

Because they were pressured by the US and Turkey and have more important concerns right now - mainly sanctions on iran. The IDF absolutely wanted to charge them and said as much but political considerations overruled them.

I don't think so.
I think prosecutor general knows damn well they've opened a can of worms and the best possible legal manuevre is to get the crews of the ships outa town asap.

mrboswell

prinz wrote: »

Not all Israelis are colonising settlers.

No but israel is

bambooze

paulaa wrote: »

No, it's quite simple, Israel has a right to exist based on the fact that the half the land of the British Mandate in Palestine was given to them by the League of Nations/ UN. That wasn't enough for them so they now use passages from Holy Books to condone the theft of the land that was to be the state of Palestine.

Lets not forget to mention that it was entirely rejected by the arabs who wanted all of mandate palestine and tried to take it.

Still seems like a thread drift to me though..

bambooze

BluePlanet wrote: »

I don't think so.
I think prosecutor general knows damn well they've opened a can of worms and the best possible legal manuevre is to get the crews of the ships outa town asap.

I'm not really sure if things could get much worse for israel by charging some anyway. Iran really is a far more important issue for israel now in the grand scheme of things.

sceptre

bambooze wrote: »

Still seems like a thread drift to me though..

It is. People, stop drifting off-topic, there have been enough on-thread warnings (the last one was 22 posts ago) that I don't have a problem with temp-bans instead.

/mod

BluePlanet

bambooze wrote: »

I'm not really sure if things could get much worse for israel by charging some anyway. Iran really is a far more important issue for israel now in the grand scheme of things.

What does Iran have to do with Israel charging or not charging people with crimes?

paulaa

prinz wrote: »

Not all Israelis are colonising settlers.

Yes I do know that, including a Jewish portion of my family who lived there for years and left some years ago when they saw the slide into fascism.
The problem is that not enough people in Israel are speaking out about what is happening in their names.

paulaa

sceptre wrote: »

It is. People, stop drifting off-topic, there have been enough on-thread warnings (the last one was 22 posts ago) that I don't have a problem with temp-bans instead.

/mod

Sorry

doncarlos

bambooze wrote: »

All bodies are already in turkey and funerals are already in process.. its well out of Israels hands.

Well if they are covering up what exactly happened in my opinion it wouldn't be too hard is it for a body or two to disappear. After all the lies they've told there is no way they'd allow some damning evidence out of the country.

wes

prinz wrote: »

I'd say the people living in constant fear of mortar and rocket attacks may think differently about not being 'punished'.

Again, doesn't matter. Palestinian are treat like sub human dirt by Israel, and are still punished. Again, both sides need to be treated the same, and considering the fact that the Palestinians are always punished regardless of there treatment, the same should be done for Israel, and to bring us back on topic, this most recent floatilla attack by Israel needs to be punished by the International community.

paulaa

bambooze wrote: »

I'm not really sure if things could get much worse for israel by charging some anyway. Iran really is a far more important issue for israel now in the grand scheme of things.

This is not going to go away. Most of those activists who were brought to Israel are looking in to lawsuits against Israel for illegal kidnap, assault and detentions according to France 24 a few hours ago

paulaa

doncarlos wrote: »

Well if they are covering up what exactly happened in my opinion it wouldn't be too hard is it for a body or two to disappear. After all the lies they've told there is no way they'd allow some damning evidence out of the country.

20 people are still missing and their embassies and families can't get any information about them

as well as that four Palestinian activists from the flotilla are still being held

bambooze

BluePlanet wrote: »

What does Iran have to do with Israel charging or not charging people with crimes?

As I said pressure by the US and Turkey and probably others got them released because israel needs them all to support iran sanctions.

bambooze

paulaa wrote: »

20 people are still missing and their embassies and families can't get any information about them

Says who? Were they officially on record as having boarded and did not arrive in israel? (with no stops along the way)

Or is this just worried families who just didnt manage to contact some people yet which is hardly a surprise given that they all had their phones taken.

Edit to add: also there were supposedly a number of people on board with no passports so israel would have no record of them having been arrested or released making it difficult for anyone to check that but they were all taken to turkey anyway.

eoin5

Manic Moran wrote: »

The finer points of maritime law seem to be still under some dispute. According to Reuters, you are correct in that it hardly matters at all, but possibly not in the way you intended your statement to come across.

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-48994620100602

Now, of course it's always possible that the Reuters analysis is wrong, but that's for a court to decide. Suffice to say that the issue is not cut and dry.

NTM

I'd be a mad law that would allow me to be arrested 24miles from my own coast by a naval vessel from a country an enormous distance away. I guess nothing ever is certain though. What I havent seen much of is countries with people involved accusing their own of suicide by cop or laying blame on the organisers. I'm sure they care, but as I said before it hardly matters compared to what these countries feel Israel has to answer for.

Scofflaw

BluePlanet wrote: »

Survivors of the massacre have said that Israel started shooting before the commandos landed on the deck.
They said people had already been shot dead.
Painball guns aren't ordinarily lethal.

While it is possible some of the commandos that landed carried Paintball guns, the ones in the boats were not those commandos.
Why do you presume that Israel would only bring paintball guns to attack a ship?

In the interview with the ex-US envoy to Iraq he said that the commandos that boarded his ship were armed with machine guns and pistols, and "a couple of them had paintball guns".

Is there another fudge happening here?

cordially,
Scofflaw

doncarlos

Scofflaw wrote: »

In the interview with the ex-US envoy to Iraq he said that the commandos that boarded his ship were armed with machine guns and pistols, and "a couple of them had paintball guns".

Is there another fudge happening here?

cordially,
Scofflaw

I find it strange that ALL those interviewed that were aboard the ships give conflicting accounts than what the Israelis are reporting. They can't all be lying.

paulaa

bambooze wrote: »

Says who? Were they officially on record as having boarded and did not arrive in israel? (with no stops along the way)

Or is this just worried families who just didnt manage to contact some people yet which is hardly a surprise given that they all had their phones taken.

Edit to add: also there were supposedly a number of people on board with no passports so israel would have no record of them having been arrested or released making it difficult for anyone to check that but they were all taken to turkey anyway.

The organisers and other activists who were there, on RT TV, al Jezeera, France 24.

paulaa

doncarlos wrote: »

I find it strange that ALL those interviewed that were aboard the ships give conflicting accounts than what the Israelis are reporting. They can't all be lying.

There were 6 boats. The Israelis have contradicted themselves numerous times in the last few days

Dar

doncarlos wrote: »

I find it strange that ALL those interviewed that were aboard the ships give conflicting accounts than what the Israelis are reporting. They can't all be lying.

You have to remember that these people "have links to Al'Qaeda" and "wanted to be martyrs". They deliberately and maliciously "assaulted" Israeli troops with "sophisticated weapons". How could we possibly believe a word they say?

Oh and all the EU, US, Australian, Swedish, etc. passengers, crew and journalists are all dirty liars too.

doncarlos

paulaa wrote: »

There were 6 boats. The Israelis have contradicted themselves numerous times in the last few days

I know this and you know this but some people refuse to accept that it looks like an Israeli cover up. They would rather believe that EVERY one of those on the boat is a terrorist and a liar

bambooze

paulaa wrote: »

The organisers and other activists who were there, on RT TV, al Jezeera, France 24.

The organisers made an official statement to that effect based on actual records? Or just some people involved repeated a rumour? Turkish passport control presumably know exactly who got on the boats.

Coz despite what some here like to believe, israel doesnt just make people disappear, there is no logic to it.

paulaa

bambooze wrote: »

The organisers made an official statement to that effect based on actual records? Or just some people involved repeated a rumour? Turkish passport control presumably know exactly who got on the boats.

Coz despite what some here like to believe, israel doesnt just make people disappear, there is no logic to it.

I didn't say they did but I wouldn't be surprised.

I would think the organisers would know how many people were on their boats and how many were being repatriated.

bambooze

doncarlos wrote: »

I find it strange that ALL those interviewed that were aboard the ships give conflicting accounts than what the Israelis are reporting. They can't all be lying.

I'd be surprised if any two people involved gave the same account.. they weren't spectators in a football stadium.

karma_

bambooze wrote: »

I'd be surprised if any two people involved gave the same account.. they weren't spectators in a football stadium.

They certainly were not, they were under deadly attack by elite commandos.