Israel Kills 10 aid workers

uprising2

I came across this begging site, poooooooor settlers, they need all the help they can get, I'm sure Bomber and Mahatma will be digging deep into their pockets to help these poor zionist scum settlers, get your tissues out as you read this.
QUOTE:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Settlement: Beit El[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Contact: [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]betel@netvision.net.il[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Needs: 1. Funds to build secure play center. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 2. Toys, games, equipment and furnishings for the center[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 3. Funds towards bulletproof van for transportation of children - $75,000. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Security Elements[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Security elements for educational institutions:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Closed Circuit TV Systems 6 X $ 430 = $ 2,580[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Intercoms (including batteries) 4 X $ 750 = $ 3,000[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Emergency Alert Systems (including loudspeakers) 3 X $1,500 = $ 4,500[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Two-way radios (inc. batteries and recharge units) 7 X $ 860 = $ 6,020[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Loudspeakers (including sirens) 12 X $ 95 = $ 1,140[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]First Aid kits 24 X $ 50 = $ 1,200[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Paramedic kits 15 X $ 110 = $ 1,650[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Enclosure fencing 100 meters X$ 30 per meter = $ 3,000[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Flood lights 20 X $ 13 = $ 260[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Emergency lights for bomb shelters 20 x $ 110= $2,200[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Handheld emergency lights (Megalight) 25 X $ 110 =$ 2,750[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Total $ 28,300[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bulletproof Day Care Center[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bet El has the second highest per capita birth rate in Israel, with over [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]100 babies born each year. One of the two Day Care Centers, serving 60 children ages 3 months to 3 years, is housed in a 20-year-old prefab building, which is not bulletproof. The Day Care center lies less than 200 feet away from the community border, facing in the direction of Ramallah. Some of the neighboring houses have been hit by bullets over the past two years.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Local Council is raising money to relocate the Day Care Center away from the fence, in a new modern bulletproof building. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The cost of construction is $320,000.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Already received through Helping Israel.com[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5 pairs of long range binoculars for security unit[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Children's winter apparel donated from Arkansas[/FONT][/FONT]

http://www.helpingisrael.com/communities.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LrkhN6Pcto

namloc1980

So in the past week or so Israel has hijacked and detained 7 ships under foreign flags from international waters and killed 10 people in the process. And the most we've heard from "the International Community" is a call for an investigation! If this was any other country there would be a host of sanctions etc. I mean Iran detained 5 British yachtmen from INSIDE Iranian territorial waters last year and their was international outrage.

The moral of the story: Israel can get away with anything.

IrelandSpirit

namloc1980 wrote: »

So in the past week or so Israel has hijacked and detained 7 ships under foreign flags from international waters and killed 10 people in the process. And the most we've heard from "the International Community" is a call for an investigation! If this was any other country there would be a host of sanctions etc. I mean Iran detained 5 British yachtmen from INSIDE Iranian territorial waters last year and their was international outrage.

The moral of the story: Israel can get away with anything.

The State of Israel has gotten away with it for decades and yes precisely because the international community condones their actions and policies - our governments are as guilty as they are.

My name is URL

It's mostly the fault of the US.. they veto almost all resolutions in regards to Israel, even if they're the only ones against any sanctions. No nation should have the ability to veto imo, what's the point in the UN when one country can impede the decision of the collective union?

Lab_Mouse

My name is URL wrote: »

It's mostly the fault of the US.. they veto almost all resolutions in regards to Israel, even if they're the only ones against any sanctions. No nation should have the ability to veto imo, what's the point in the UN when one country can impede the decision of the collective union?

Slightly off topic but China used its veto to stop sri lanka from being censured over the way they handled the final defeat of the tamil tigers.There was a lot of civilian casualities,all tamill's.

As for israel its the orthodox jews that are pushing the zionist agenda and not the secular jews.There is a fairly big peace movement over there but never gets any coverage in the news.

I worked over there(well in gaza ands the westbank) and people were regularily being locked up for not doing national service.Their options were either 3 years in the army or 3 years in the slammer.Strangely enough if you went to college to study the talmud you were given a waiver on having to do national service.And guess who spends a couple of years studying the talmud?The orthodox believers.And they are the ones pushing the zionist agenda.Although some do join the army at a later stage.Also a majority of the illegal settlements are by the same people i.e fundamentalist nutjobs.

Having said that the israelis/jews I did meet were sound enough.Most just wanted peace.They wanted the bombs to stop, both ways.

I honestly believe religion is for stupid people and the middle east(and northern Ireland)are very good examples of this.

EDIT:was 12 years ago when I was there so things might of changed(deffently for the palestinians anyway) and I generally dont like reading about it as it p1sses me off no end

IrelandSpirit

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

Slightly off topic but China used its veto to stop sri lanka from being censured over the way they handled the final defeat of the tamil tigers.There was a lot of civilian casualities,all tamill's.

As for israel its the orthodox jews that are pushing the zionist agenda and not the secular jews.There is a fairly big peace movement over there but never gets any coverage in the news.

I worked over there(well in gaza ands the westbank) and people were regularily being locked up for not doing national service.Their options were either 3 years in the army or 3 years in the slammer.Strangely enough if you went to college to study the talmud you were given a waiver on having to do national service.And guess who spends a couple of years studying the talmud?The orthodox believers.And they are the ones pushing the zionist agenda.Although some do join the army at a later stage.Also a majority of the illegal settlements are by the same people i.e fundamentalist nutjobs.

Having said that the israelis/jews I did meet were sound enough.Most just wanted peace.They wanted the bombs to stop, both ways.

I honestly believe religion is for stupid people and the middle east(and northern Ireland)are very good examples of this.

EDIT:was 12 years ago when I was there so things might of changed(deffently for the palestinians anyway) and I generally dont like reading about it as it p1sses me off no end

Well, from my understanding it's the other way round: Jews are generally against Zionism (homeland is forbidden) and secular Jews (oxymoron when you think about it) are generally for it.

There's quite a few site which explain the distinction very well .... here's one for starters: Jews against zionism:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

Though don't get me wrong, I don't make distinctions such as secular or religious when it comes to talking about ANY religion because a religion is just that: a religion. Terms like 'agnostic Jew', or 'secular Christian' etc, etc don't make sense to me - and I personally don't give a toss which particular version of their bronze age fairy tale people believe as long as they're not hurting other people over it.

Lab_Mouse

by secular jews I meant not nessarily non practisng jews but jews who believed that church synagogue and state should be separate.
Now you can(and do have)secular jews who are zionist and vice versa for orthodox believers.I think uprising had linked to that site before.

Also it was only orthodox jews who had set up camp in gaza when I was there,and like I said things could of changed.

Another thing that I found mad at the time was that anyone of jewish decent could go live there(which from a jewish point of view is fine)but the thing is its a tiny country even if you include gaza west/bank and if all people of jewish decent came home it would be seriously overcrowded.And it has limited resources as its mainly very dry.

Here's my theory about the flotilla:I believe it was an athesist crusade.They were gonna sneak in when evry body in the promised land was asleep and dismantle every church,synagogue and mosque and build the worlds largest conference centre(hence all the building materials on the ships) and have richard dawkins give lectures once a week and hopefully talk some sense into them and hopefully every christian,muslim and jew would relise how silly it looks...if it wasnt for those peky americans with their radar and f-14's and countries that sold them subs and corvettes...:pac:

caseyann

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

Slightly off topic but China used its veto to stop sri lanka from being censured over the way they handled the final defeat of the tamil tigers.There was a lot of civilian casualities,all tamill's.

As for israel its the orthodox jews that are pushing the zionist agenda and not the secular jews.There is a fairly big peace movement over there but never gets any coverage in the news.

I worked over there(well in gaza ands the westbank) and people were regularily being locked up for not doing national service.Their options were either 3 years in the army or 3 years in the slammer.Strangely enough if you went to college to study the talmud you were given a waiver on having to do national service.And guess who spends a couple of years studying the talmud?The orthodox believers.And they are the ones pushing the zionist agenda.Although some do join the army at a later stage.Also a majority of the illegal settlements are by the same people i.e fundamentalist nutjobs.

Having said that the israelis/jews I did meet were sound enough.Most just wanted peace.They wanted the bombs to stop, both ways.

I honestly believe religion is for stupid people and the middle east(and northern Ireland)are very good examples of this.

EDIT:was 12 years ago when I was there so things might of changed(deffently for the palestinians anyway) and I generally dont like reading about it as it p1sses me off no end

Just because the powers that be take advantage and use religion for their own racist bigoted greedy agendas,does not mean religion is for stupid people.Take control of any group of people and tell them its for what ever reason once their government in power tell them its for their greater good and that the other group hate them because of their religion,then it turns it into personal matter.
Northern Ireland is a completely different kettle of fish.
And religion although seems to people main reason for fighting in Gaza it is most certainly not the reason underneath.Its control and politics.
Religion doesn't cause wars people do!!!!
So i would say (Stupid people are not for religion)

Israel have innocent blood on their hands and they think its acceptable because they think they are in right,and may attack any they deem a threat.How aid ships became a threat is beyond me.
Instead of calling in search of the ship,they went in guns blazing and tried to cover tracks after.

Lab_Mouse

caseyann wrote: »

Religion doesn't cause wars people do!!!!

Well I hardly expected jesus to start fukking about ICBM's or cluster bombs so yes you are correct to certain extent.

To think religion isnt a big factor in many conflicts is ignoring the elephant in the room.

Iagree that there are alwaysa other factors in any conflict,but its always a religion that defines one side apart from the other.

I was only half joking about the athesist crusade.I really look forward to the day that people relise we really are only bags of water and that we dont need a reson to exist.

Right im off to the christianity forum to poke holes in THE HOBBITsorry meant the bible

Brown Bomber

Watch this while you can. (If you can stomach it, sickening!:mad:)

The American-Turk killed by defenseless IDF commandos

robtri

no more sickening than this ****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNo7vTOAWN4

whats sick is a lot of peoples attitude here and the one sided of their arguments pretneding only israel commits outrages murder...
both sides do... wake up and smell the roses.... both sides need to be stopped

Brown Bomber

robtri wrote: »

no more sickening than this ****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNo7vTOAWN4

whats sick is a lot of peoples attitude here and the one sided of their arguments pretneding only israel commits outrages murder...
both sides do... wake up and smell the roses.... both sides need to be stopped

Wow! That was sickening. A video made by a fanatical right-wing organistation that showed sweet **** all in its 30 seconds of nothingness. You compare that to someone being fatally shot??? unbelievable...

PirateShampoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Wow! That was sickening. A video made by a fanatical right-wing organistation that showed sweet **** all in its 30 seconds of nothingness. You compare that to someone being fatally shot??? unbelievable...

I could fill ur thread with videos of suicide bombers you like?

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

I could fill ur thread with videos of suicide bombers you like?

And that would achieve what exactly?

Suicide bombings are inexscusable, any attacks on civilians are, unquestionably. But all you would be doing is making false connections the criminal media want you to make, please try to open your mind and have the courage to look beyond this and think for yourself. The massacre of these people belonging to charitable and human rights organisations has nothing to do at all with the history of the conflict. This is about my 3rd or 4th time saying this. Suicide bombings are wrong, rocket attacks are wrong, imposing a siege on an entire population is wrong forcing them to live trapped like animals in sub-human conditions is wrong. None excuses the other and none have any relation to the massacre itself or the passengers onboard who were trying to deliver aid.

BTW
That video you posted came from palwatch.org. Who's domain is listed in
Kiryat Sefer http://www.whois.net/whois/palwatch.org, an Illegal
Israeli settlement in the Westbank and who's
"Tech State/Province:Armed Forces Other Areas"

Offy

I suspect Israel sold out to the US many years ago. This deal was very secret. Israel now operates in a similar manor to the CIA. I suspect Israel is nothing more than a tactical nuclear base for an attack on Americas enemies. Why does Israel have so many nuclear missiles and where did they get them from?
America has an unquenchable thirst for oil and Israel is a store for their army should they need it. The war on weapons of mass destruction was nothing more than a smoke screen for America to secure oil, to maintain that supply they need a base close by and they need a small independent country that needs protection from the type of people that live in the country they started the war with.
America has had their eye on that part of the world for years now, before this their excuse was the Russians but now the cold war is over they have a new enemy. Terrorists. They supplied and trained Bin Laden but he went rouge so all they are left with in that part of the world is Israel. As long as there is a demand for oil in America Israel will continue to claim its neighbours are out to get them and they will kill their neighbours (terrorists) on a regular basis. As America was attacked by terrorists they will support Israel. CIA tactics on a grand scale.
America trained and supplied Bin Laden. Bin Laden killed Americans.
America trained and supplied Israel. Israel killed Americans.
See the trend? As long as Bin Laden served America they supported him, as long as Israel serves America they will support Israel. America will only veto Israel when/if Israel turns rouge or an alternative to oil is found.
If Europe gets involved with the UN then America cant control Israel any more. If their base in the middle east is lost they risk their oil. The veto's will continue as long as the oil is needed.

uprising2

PirateShampoo wrote: »

I could fill ur thread with videos of suicide bombers you like?

I think you may be away with the fairies, these people on the boats were bringing aid to these people (if they're still alive)


and these:



and for trying to get some cement for above and medicine for the hospital below



The reason I added pics for you is because you don't seem to comprehend whats actually happening, you splurt out nonsense, NOBODY here agree's with suicide bombings.
The aid was going there because the people are desperate for it, and still are.
They are being terrorised daily by the Israeli aggressor, day after day after day after day they endure this torment, their hospitals are bombed, civilians bombed, then they are denied food, medicine, shelter and are locked in, they are fukking locked in there and can't get out, then they are bombed again, they live in terror, who's the terrorist?, and what is a terrorist in your mind?.

And some concerned brave people try get aid to them, and are murdered for trying to help fellow human beings, they weren't going there to kill Israeli's, they were going to try help people who are imprisoned in hell, and your argument is you will fill this thread with suicide bombing video's to somehow justify Israel's detention, brutality and slaughter of everybody and anybody in there, and anybody who tries to help them.

If I treated my dog the way Israel treats Palestinians, I'd be in prison, if the DSPCA came to rescue my dog and I attacked them, I'd be in prison for longer, now wouldnt it be a fukked up situation if I was hailed a hero by society for terrorising, starving, attacking and abusing my dog because some dogs bite sometimes.
My dog has more rights in Ireland than a Palestinian has in Gaza.

Lab_Mouse

I dont always agree with you uprising but thge post above was spot on.

studiorat

uprising2 wrote: »

and for trying to get some cement for above and medicine for the hospital below

Why didn't they use the cement that they used to build the Olympic swimming pool that opened in Gaza on the 18th May this year?

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=285242

uprising2 wrote: »

They are being terrorised daily by the Israeli aggressor, day after day after day after day they endure this torment, their hospitals are bombed, civilians bombed, then they are denied food, medicine, shelter and are locked in, they are fukking locked in there and can't get out, then they are bombed again, they live in terror, who's the terrorist?, and what is a terrorist in your mind?.

70% of the people there are unemployed. Yet the Roots Club plays host to Gaza's middle classes and elite. Why does this happen while Hamas mobsters, NGO's and international Journalists rub shoulders?
Where does the steak au poivre mentioned in the tourist guides come from then?

uprising2 wrote: »

My dog has more rights in Ireland than a Palestinian has in Gaza.

Thats as much the fault of the PA and Hamas as it is Israels. Gaza is infact a huge market for Israel's agricultural surplus. Israel's policy has done nothing but empower Hamas, Gaza's nouveau riche. They tax the goods coming through the tunnels and get rich while the average people can't afford the food.

There are two bad guys in this story, it's a pity no one here seems to be aware of that.

robtri

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Wow! That was sickening. A video made by a fanatical right-wing organistation that showed sweet **** all in its 30 seconds of nothingness. You compare that to someone being fatally shot??? unbelievable...

yes the murder of 12 children and 25 adults and you think thats nothing....

good for you BB....

can you see where i am coming from, from your high horse.....

what i am trying to show you and what i believe Pirateshampoo is saying, in reference to videos of suicide bomber, is that certain aspects of Palestine are just as guilty for commiting atrocities as certain parts of Israel......

your continued focus on Israel and ignoring the other sides murders and killings of innocent people, shows your lack of respect for human life.

robtri

uprising2 wrote: »

If I treated my dog the way Israel treats Palestinians, I'd be in prison, if the DSPCA came to rescue my dog and I attacked them, I'd be in prison for longer, now wouldnt it be a fukked up situation if I was hailed a hero by society for terrorising, starving, attacking and abusing my dog because some dogs bite sometimes.
My dog has more rights in Ireland than a Palestinian has in Gaza.

and if the dog bite any innocent bystanders it would be put down......

these people do need help, nobody here has deniend that, but a lot of people seem to over look is the killing and attacks performed against israel ( that does not excuse what Israel have done and continue to do)

PirateShampoo

uprising2 wrote: »

I think you may be away with the fairies, these people on the boats were bringing aid to these people (if they're still alive)

And the blockade is there to stop arms being smuggled in. Which will supply the rocket attacks and the suicide bombers.

So pictures of suicded bombers is just as relevent as the pictures you have posted.

Brown Bomber

studiorat wrote: »

Why didn't they use the cement that they used to build the Olympic swimming pool that opened in Gaza on the 18th May this year?

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=285242

:rolleyes:
Borderline racist comment, your dehumanizing the Gazans.

Why shouldn't the children and adults for that matter have some sembelance of normality and hope?

That is one swimming pool for 1.6 million people. One Restaurant for 1.6 million people. Do you object to Gaza having a swimming pool that was paid for by donors according to your link?

studiorat wrote: »

70% of the people there are unemployed. Yet the Roots Club plays host to Gaza's middle classes and elite. Why does this happen while Hamas mobsters, NGO's and international Journalists rub shoulders?

So supply and demand is unique to Gaza too? :rolleyes:

FFS there is people going hungry in Ireland while Ireland's Fianna Fail mobsters, NGO's and international journalists rub shoulders. What is your point?

studiorat wrote: »

Where does the steak au poivre mentioned in the tourist guides come from then?

Smuggled through tunnels on the Egyptian border. Again, smuggling is not uniquely Gazan.

studiorat wrote: »

Thats as much the fault of the PA and Hamas as it is Israels. Gaza is infact a huge market for Israel's agricultural surplus.

And Israel is a huge market for Palestine's stolen water. All that comes into Gaza is either smuggled through the tunnels or through the blockade from Israel. Palestine has no option who they import from.

studiorat wrote: »

Israel's policy has done nothing but empower Hamas, Gaza's nouveau riche. They tax the goods coming through the tunnels and get rich while the average people can't afford the food.

There are two bad guys in this story, it's a pity no one here seems to be aware of that.

It is quite clear you don't actually know what you are talking about.

PirateShampoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

BTW
That video you posted came from palwatch.org. Who's domain is listed in
Kiryat Sefer http://www.whois.net/whois/palwatch.org, an Illegal
Israeli settlement in the Westbank and who's
"Tech State/Province:Armed Forces Other Areas"

I have no idea what video your talking about.

namloc1980

studiorat wrote: »

Why didn't they use the cement that they used to build the Olympic swimming pool that opened in Gaza on the 18th May this year?

Yeah God forbid that the people of Gaza should strive for a bit of normality that having a swimming pool might bring. I suppose they should just be happy to have 1.5m of them crammed into an area of only 360 sq km.

K-9

namloc1980 wrote: »

Yeah God forbid that the people of Gaza should strive for a bit of normality that having a swimming pool might bring. I suppose they should just be happy to have 1.5m of them crammed into an area of only 360 sq km.

Its comedy gold at this stage.

uprising2

studiorat wrote: »

There are two bad guys in this story, it's a pity no one here seems to be aware of that.

Your missing, ignoring and deflecting the point, I dont really care about elites, here, Gaza or Israel, everywhere has their elites, it's the people at the bottom of the ladder, less social status that I'm concerned about and who need the aid most, I'm sure "Roots Club" can't cater for 1.5 million people ordering steak au poivre at once.

While I think a swimming pool was wasting very limited resources and 95% of Gazan's will never dip a toe in it, that doesn't mean they don't need and shouldn't have building materials.

Don't try distort the facts with your little sideshows, wrong is wrong no matter who is doing it, your retorts are totally void of empathy and understanding, your slanted view is amazing and annoying, you've some neck defending and cushioning whats happening, I actually doubt you express your feelings outside of cyberspace.

EDIT:
Steak au poivre?
AS a convoy of blue-and-white United Nations trucks loaded with food waited last night for Israeli permission to enter Gaza, Jindiya Abu Amra and her 12-year-old daughter went scrounging for the wild grass their family now lives on.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5338014.ece

CrinkElite

robtri wrote: »

and if the dog bite any innocent bystanders it would be put down......

FFS.

Brown Bomber

uprising2 wrote: »

wrong is wrong no matter who is doing it, your retorts are totally void of empathy and understanding, your slanted view is amazing and annoying,

Well said, put much better than I ever could. The humanatarian crisis in Gaza is a given to argue against it is a postion ignorance or lies.

It is not just the obvious stuff either, the forced malnutrition, the denial of freedom of movement, the bombings, the snipers, the aparteid wall, the property destruction, the evictions, the illegal settelements, the murder of children etc etc etc there is what I consider the really humiliating and non-human offenses against Palestinians.

The organ theft.
The sexual assault of children in their custody
Threats of rape to children in their custody
Overriding all the Palestinian TV channels with 24-hour hardcore porn
The torture
Using weapons on civilians that cause genetic mutations
and on and on and on.

This photograph perfectly sums up for me the arrogant and evil supremacism that has somehow taken hold in Israel.




And for those who think it is just about Palestians and Arabs

A few weeks ago, a senior Greek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a government office in Jerusalem's Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window. When the clergyman let the window down, the passerby spat in his face.



The clergyman prefered not to lodge a complaint with the police and told an acquaintance that he was used to being spat at by Jews. Many Jerusalem clergy have been subjected to abuse of this kind. For the most part, they ignore it but sometimes they cannot.




On Sunday, a fracas developed when a yeshiva student spat at the cross being carried by the Armenian Archbishop during a procession near the Holy Sepulchre in the Old City. The archbishop's 17th-century cross was broken during the brawl and he slapped the yeshiva student.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099

Now I've gone way off topic.

Getting back to the flotilla massacre...

That video I posted with the two IDF killers assasinating one of the Turks, does anyone else think that this supports the Turkish claim of the assasination list?

What got me thinking was when I was reading a Guardian or London Independent piece by the Al Jazeera reporter who was on the boat. He said they attacked during morning (Muslim) prayers - what better time to seperate the brown people from the white people? And also he mentioned that they were checking passengers ID's. Under the circumstances there is no reason I can think of for doing this unless they were looking for someone in particular. Also, the guy killed in the video was clearly assassinated.

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

I have no idea what video your talking about.

sorry I mixed you up with Rob tri

studiorat

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Well said, put much better than I ever could. The humanatarian crisis in Gaza is a given to argue against it is a postion ignorance or lies.

You both seem to find my view slanted because you are both looking at it from a angle. You accuse me of not having empathy, but you can't understand that I actually have empathy for both sides. You're putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5 because you clearly have decided to polarize the issue. Whether that's an unconscious decision to support Hamas because you see them as some sort of anti-establishment poster boys, I really dunno.

Someone used the water argument earlier, yet when the Mayor of Gaza was to leave the area for meetings regarding improvments to the water supply Hamas refused to let him leave. Why was that?

The flotilla was carrying school supplies, yet Hamas are quite happy to burn down schools because they don't want boys and girls educated together.

Medical supplies; The Palestinian Red Crescent accuse Hamas of confiscating their humanitarian supply convoys, destined for Palestinian civilians because Hamas claims the supplies were heading to former members of Fatah.

Hamas' values are about "honour and glory" not about the people they are supposed to represent.

Yet like most of the mainstream media you buy into the demonization of one side and willfully ignore the violence of the other and in doing so continue to feed into the cycle of violence.

robtri

CrinkElite wrote: »

FFS.

stuuning reply :rolleyes:

Brown Bomber

studiorat wrote: »

You both seem to find my view slanted because you are both looking at it from a angle. You accuse me of not having empathy, but you can't understand that I actually have empathy for both sides. You're putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5 because you clearly have decided to polarize the issue. Whether that's an unconscious decision to support Hamas because you see them as some sort of anti-establishment poster boys, I really dunno.

Someone used the water argument earlier, yet when the Mayor of Gaza was to leave the area for meetings regarding improvments to the water supply Hamas refused to let him leave. Why was that?

The flotilla was carrying school supplies, yet Hamas are quite happy to burn down schools because they don't want boys and girls educated together.

Medical supplies; The Palestinian Red Crescent accuse Hamas of confiscating their humanitarian supply convoys, destined for Palestinian civilians because Hamas claims the supplies were heading to former members of Fatah.

Hamas' values are about "honour and glory" not about the people they are supposed to represent.

Yet like most of the mainstream media you buy into the demonization of one side and willfully ignore the violence of the other and in doing so continue to feed into the cycle of violence.

Quote anything that myself or uprising have posted to back up your clam that we "support" Hamas. Otherwise you have no point. We accused you of lacking empathy because you say there is no humanatarian crisis in Gaza despite every Human Rights group and the UN contradicting this. While people are starving in Gaza you think it is clever to post a link to a Gazan restaurant to attempt to deny this. That is clearly lacking empathy, if you can't see this for yourself I don't know what else to say...but that particular post disgusted me.

What also disgusts me is your attempts to label people who have genuine empathy as being pro-Hamas. Hamas have nothing to do with the massacre. Nothing. I am tired of repeating this. Israel on the other hand as an occupying force are directly responsible for the welfare of the occupied people.

Why are you even trying to bring Hamas into this?'

For anyone else who is interested here is new footage from the massacre which was smuggled out by passenger Iara Lee. Haven't quite got time to watch it now myself.
http://www.culturesofresistance.org/gaza-freedom-flotilla

PirateShampoo

How can you discuss the problems in the region without discussing Hamas?

Or would that actually involve you having to look at the other side of the story?

Can you not even try and address some of the questions he brought up?

IrelandSpirit

PirateShampoo wrote: »

How can you discuss the problems in the region without discussing Hamas?

Or would that actually involve you having to look at the other side of the story?

Can you not even try and address some of the questions he brought up?

The people on those boats were not terrorists, this was not about 'sides', it wasn't about gun-smuggling or any such thing, this was simply about people trying to get some supplies to other people who are in a desperate situation.

Go to the above link that BB posted, at least click on the 15min edited version of the footage from the massacre, and actually watch it. See the men and women on-board, look at their faces, and then see them wounded, dead and dying - their blood splattered up the walls, running cross the decks.

Do it, and I think you will also see something about yourself, within the context of your posts here on this thread. But be warned, I think you will probably not like what you see.

PirateShampoo

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

The people on those boats were not terrorists, this was not about 'sides', it wasn't about gun-smuggling or any such thing, this was simply about people trying to get some supplies to other people who are in a desperate situation.

Go to the above link that BB posted, at least click on the 15min edited version of the footage from the massacre, and actually watch it. See the men and women on-board, look at their faces, and then see them wounded, dead and dying - their blood splattered up the walls, running cross the decks.

Do it, and I think you will also see something about yourself, within the context of your posts here on this thread. But be warned, I think you will probably not like what you see.

Funny how people will post off topic and discuss other Israeli actions but as soon as subjects about Hamas or similar come up they pull the "its about the people on the boat" reply.


And what the fudge are you talking about "I think you will also see something about yourself", you have no idea what sort of person i am.

IrelandSpirit

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Funny how people will post off topic and discuss other Israeli actions but as soon as subjects about Hamas or similar come up they pull the "its about the people on the boat" reply.


And what the fudge are you talking about "I think you will also see something about yourself", you have no idea what sort of person i am.

Please read at the title of this thread. I did not post anything off-topic.

Nope, I don't know what sort of person you are, but I suspect like any of us you're very concerned about this topic so please don't miss-quote me, I said within the context of this thread.

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Funny how people will post off topic and discuss other Israeli actions but as soon as subjects about Hamas or similar come up they pull the "its about the people on the boat" reply.


And what the fudge are you talking about "I think you will also see something about yourself", you have no idea what sort of person i am.

I can't further explain myself any better than I already have. The people were on that boat because they feel genuine compassion for their fellow human beings. Every innocent human being suffering in Gaza and elsewhere lives are just as valuable as yours or mine, only we've been luckier in our circumstances. Children every day are born into bondage that have committed no crime. 60-year-old men and women have spent thier entire lives under occupation. How would you like to be born into and spend your entire life under an occupation that doesn't view you as a human being? Meh...I'm just going round in circles again, I'll save you all . What I will do though is share this letter written to Norman Finkelstein and published on his website http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/recent-correspondence-5/
It capture perfectly what I would like to be able to communicate with you.

06.09.2010
Dear Norman, As a young boy i used to be troubled in history lessons when i learnt about world wars and massacres and the holocaust. I remember always seeing figures, and trying to somehow come to terms with the numbers killed. I was 1, my class was 30, my year 240, the fans supporting my local football team 19 000. I use to sit and watch people go by and wonder about their life, their family, their concerns. And think a life such as this so easily taken away, and that was just one. I use to wonder how cruel the world was, and how beautiful it was today. Of course i was wrong.



I cannot comprehend the ignorance of people to such abuse of human rights. My mind is just not equipped to understand this matter. Of course not only in Palestine, but in this case perpertrated by a state which is accepted by all and supported by many. I am young muslim doctor from the UK. I am completely professional and a considered a invaluable member of the community. But i have this fire of anger burning inside me when i see the crimes these inhumane people commit against a people. Not only at those animals who perpetrate such crimes, but those who stand by and watch, and those who simply ignore. The only relation i have to these people is they and I breathe the same air, they feel how i feel, think how i think, hurt how i hurt. Why does the West wonder why they are hated so much? If i feel in such a way then how would those feel who have lost their land, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, families, livelihood to these barbaric creatures?



I understand that there is another aid flotilla planned. I wish the world would wake up. I wish the sea is swamped with boats coming to the aid of the Palestinians. I wish.



I admire the courage of all those trying to make a difference.


Best wishes to you and your readers.



Mohammed

studiorat

I posted because your posts are oneside, blinkered and full of moral posturing. You continually use langauge such as Zionist etc, which would lead me to believe that you don't believe that Israel actually has a right to exist.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Why are you even trying to bring Hamas into this?'

Hamas have the majority of seats in the Palestinian Legistlative Council for Gaza, that's why.

Both Hamas and Islamic Jihad have boycotted current municipal elections and called for their supporters not to vote.

Hamas are executing Palestinians on a regular basis, the last ones on 15th April.
Do you think that's reason enough?

Both Hamas and Israel have been accused of War Crimes in the area. Why are you only accusing Israel and not the other?

Is it any wonder so many Palestinians who could and should be running the country and negotiating are in exile.

I posted the swimming pool and restaurants to point out that there is another side to the story. And once again you over-simplified the issue with a daft comment like "1 restaurant for 1.6 million people." Surely you don't actually believe that's the case.

There is currently an oligarchy between Hamas and the pirate entrepreneurs who are living quite comfortably thank you. Besides, what good is a boat load of concrete without the necessary personell to use it and pay them?

I've been to the meetings and rallies and again and again the issue if over simplified. Why do you insist on polarizing the issue and pointing out the mis-deeds of only one side?



Why did you post the thread in the first place? It was in the news everyone knows about it. You call it a conspiracy theory and yet all you are using the thread for is to vent your "Outrage"

Brown Bomber

So you can't quote anything that either Uprising or myself have posted that is in support of Hamas then?

I believe that is what wannabe intellectuals refer to as strawman.

Maybe it is better if you keep your imagination and guesswork to yourself.

PirateShampoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

So you can't quote anything that either Uprising or myself have posted that is in support of Hamas then?

I believe that is what wannabe intellectuals refer to as strawman.

Maybe it is better if you keep your imagination and guesswork to yourself.

And you still cant answer a question which involves you looking at a more negitive side of the Palastinian situation.

Brown Bomber

studiorat wrote: »

I posted because your posts are oneside, blinkered and full of moral posturing. You continually use langauge such as Zionist etc, which would lead me to believe that you don't believe that Israel actually has a right to exist.

:D:D:D That actually made me laugh. I use words which are the correct terminology therefore I believe Israel doesn't have a right to exist :D

Another strawman or your overactive imagination either way it has no basis in fact.

studiorat wrote: »

Hamas have the majority of seats in the Palestinian Legistlative Council for Gaza, that's why.

So?

studiorat wrote: »

Both Hamas and Islamic Jihad have boycotted current municipal elections and called for their supporters not to vote.

So?

studiorat wrote: »

Hamas are executing Palestinians on a regular basis, the last ones on 15th April.

So?

studiorat wrote: »

Do you think that's reason enough?

No.

I REPEAT. The internal politics of Gaza have absolutely nothing to do with Israel massacring innocent people in international waters.

Lets stop pretending it does, to justify mass-murder. Yeah?

studiorat wrote: »

Both Hamas and Israel have been accused of War Crimes in the area. Why are you only accusing Israel and not the other?

No they have both committed war crimes.

Read the thread to help you from making baseless accussations.

Not once have I defended Hamas firiing rockets at civilians. What I have said, and International and humanitarian law supports me on this is that no amount of rockets fired from Gaza into Israel at civilians justifies the collective punishment of a whole population.

Unless you agree that this is just and fair I don't think you have a point.

studiorat wrote: »

I posted the swimming pool and restaurants to point out that there is another side to the story.

Well then I suggest you put more thought into waht you post then.

I don't think I am alone in saying that entire post was in bad taste. Whatever other side of the story you are trying to present is not presented by ridiculing a suffering people.

studiorat wrote: »

There is currently an oligarchy between Hamas and the pirate entrepreneurs who are living quite comfortably thank you. Besides, what good is a boat load of concrete without the necessary personell to use it and pay them?

I've been to the meetings and rallies and again and again the issue if over simplified. Why do you insist on polarizing the issue and pointing out the mis-deeds of only one side?

Please read the thread title.

It does not say

• "Israel-Palestine. Who is right"
• "Hamas: are they good for Gaza?"

It Says.

• "Israel kills 10 aid workers"

No lets please try to stay on topic.

studiorat wrote: »

Why did you post the thread in the first place? It was in the news everyone knows about it. You call it a conspiracy theory and yet all you are using the thread for is to vent your "Outrage"

You say you posting the swimming pool and restaurant links weren't just smart arse cheap jokes and then you post that picture associating Palestinians with violence.

Why do I not believe you?:rolleyes:

"It was in the news everyone knows about it"

Whats in the news shouldn't be discussed here then?

Aren't you "outraged"? I would hope everyone with any kind of moral fibre and sense of right and wrong would be.


Are you outraged?

PirateShampoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Please read the thread title.

It does not say

• "Israel-Palestine. Who is right"
• "Hamas: are they good for Gaza?"

It Says.

• "Israel kills 10 aid workers"

No lets please try to stay on topic.

You make me laugh, there are a mountain of posts here which are off topic but you dont complain about them because they are anti Israel.

Heres a post from the frist random page i click on and coincidently its made by you.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Your wrong. Emotions don't come into it. It is quite easy to see the truth once you are well practiced to see through the lies. Rule#1 Is everything an Israeli military spokesperson says is lies until proven otherwise. I'll give you an example.

Israel denies banned weapons use
BBC, Sunday, 11 January 2009
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7823078.stm


Israel denies using white phosphorous in Gaza, blames Hamas
Article published on the 2009-01-20
It's not true," says military spokesperson Olivier Rafovitch. "The army is only using legal weaponry and, by the way, we found a week ago that Hamas combatant terrorists have used phosphorus once when they fired mortar rockets against one of our village in the area of Eshkol."

"We are not using white phosphorus or any illegal matter in this operation," Rafovitch insists.

"The army is an army like any army of any democracy in the world, where we engage the enemy according to the rules of engagement ... we are only using legal weapons."
http://www.rfi.fr/actuen/articles/109/article_2690.asp

From The Times
January 24, 2009
Israel admits using white phosphorous in attacks on Gaza
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5575070.ece



i have never said that the killing of anyone is justified... so get that out of your head...

So is it ok for you and others with your mind set to post off topic but not people who are discussing the bigger picture?

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

So is it ok for you and others with your mind set to post off topic but not people who are discussing the bigger picture?

for ****s sake man! This is why we will never be able to find any common ground.

My mindset is that people homes should not be demolished by an occupying force. That these same people should not be denied medicine food and water by this same occupying force.

My mindset is that fellow humans from all over the world who attempt to in some way help these suffering people and highlight their plight should not massacred in cold blood by the military of the same occupying force.

Look I don't care if you spend the rest of your life apologising for evil but please lets at least try to stay on topic.

squod

Off topic,

Polish authorities have arrested a suspected Mossad agent thought to have played a role in the assassination of a Hamas commander

http://www.france24.com/en/20100612-authorities-arrest-suspected-mossad-agent-wanted-hamas-murder-poland-dubai

Any chance the pirates will be brought to book next?

PirateShampoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

for ****s sake man! This is why we will never be able to find any common ground.

My mindset is that people homes should not be demolished by an occupying force. That these same people should not be denied medicine food and water by this same occupying force.

My mindset is that fellow humans from all over the world who attempt to in some way help these suffering people and highlight their plight should not massacred in cold blood by the military of the same occupying force.

Look I don't care if you spend the rest of your life apologising for evil but please lets at least try to stay on topic.

We could find common ground if you ever acknowlaged Israels right to defend its self, because i do agree with some of the stuff you raise, but the general feeling i get from your posts is that you hate them.

While we are discussing your mind set would it agree with rocket attacks and suicide bombers or IED's?

Also thats the second time you have claimed i am apologising, im pretty sure i never have. Anyway why would i apologise?

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

You make me laugh, there are a mountain of posts here which are off topic but you dont complain about them because they are anti Israel.

This should put all this nonsense to bed. I am here to discuss the massacre on the Mavi Marmara, that is what I am trying to do except others in their attempts to be apologetic for mass murder try to defelect away from the massacre by bringing Hamas, rockets, swimming pools etc into it. I have said many times that they have no relevance to the discussion. What I have done, and hope to demonstrate is that your claims of me taking the thread off topic are in response to others taking the thread off topic.

What led to that "random" post of mine you partially quoted


On Topic

And then onto the murdered American born Furkan Dogan who was just 19.
He too was assasinated. Shot four times in the head and once in the abdomen from close range.
I make no apologies for being angry. It is sick. How ****in warped do you have to be to shoot someone defenseless in the head?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66240868&postcount=264

Off Topic - Bring "two sides" "rockets" into the discussion

just as F*Ckin warped to fire rockets indiscrimately at civilan targets.... there are two sides in this war... lets not forget that...
(Thanks from:
PirateShampoo)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66243020&postcount=266

Attempt to bring it back on topic by discussing the actual massacre

Are you actually defending a navy commando assassinating an innocent, unarmed civilian? Shot FIVE TIMES; FOUR IN THE HEAD FROM CLOSE RANGE!!!
(...)
a) What war? It was unarmed civilians trapped on a civilian aid boat massacred by an elite military unit under orders from their criminal, pschyopathic, yet unnacountable and unapologetic government.

b) what two sides? The Israeli military and................??????
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66243460&postcount=269

More off topic comments about the "two sides" "Palestinians" and the "people they have killed

you are too involved emotionally in this to see the truth..

there are two sides to this... the Israelis and the palestians, both have commited atrocities against each other, but you seem to support the palestians and ignore the people they have killed...
very noble of you....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66254731&postcount=279

Then I list some occurences of Isreal commiting war crimes and human rights abuses which they denied and later were forced to confess.

Which I might add is on topic IMO as Israel have committed a major human rights violation on the flotilla which they are denying to the hilt,

Your wrong. Emotions don't come into it. It is quite easy to see the truth once you are well practiced to see through the lies. Rule#1 Is everything an Israeli military spokesperson says is lies until proven otherwise. I'll give you an example.

<<< The examples you quoted of Isreal lying publically >>>
(...)

Look your missing the point again. I'll try to explain a little better...

Other than the intended final destination of the aid Gaza or the rest of Palestine effectively have nothing to with the massacre on the boat.

And a final attempt to keep the thread on topic. So lets put things into context before we make accusations.

If you think it is "anti-Israel" to object to war crimes and humanatarian violations then I think you need to take a long hard look at why you believe what you believe.

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

We could find common ground if you ever acknowlaged Israels right to defend its self, but the general feeling i get from your posts is that you hate them.

While we are discussing your mind set would it agree with rocket attacks and suicide bombers or IED's?

Also thats the second time you have claimed i am apologising, im pretty sure i never have. Anyway why would i apologise?

I do acknowledge Israels right to defend itself, absolutely. But no more or no less than any other state.

I certainly don't hate Israel. I hate the actions of its ultra-right-wing government. In fact I fear for Isreal and Isrealis as the actions of these extremists are leading to an implosion of the state.

I certainly don't agree with rocket attacks, suicide bombers and I don't know what IED's are.

Mahatma coat

IED == Improvised Explosive Device == Roadside Bomb/Boobytrap

also as I am slightly OT here

THAT is an excellent post, I love the use of the Avatars.

I was going to chime in with my opinion on Israel and this mess, but I dont think that would assist in keeping things onTopic.


Lets get back to the original CT, Israel will act with impunity as this incident will coperfasten the rest of the worlds unwillingness to confront them <rest is just superlatives>

uprising2

Good post Bomber, I'll stick your video up here (it's easier to click when its in your face), I watched it lastnight, and anybody here discussing the event should also watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwsMJmvS0AY

uprising2

Iranian Red Crescent: Waiting for go ahead to send aid flotilla to Gaza
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3904190,00.html

Iranian ships ready to sail to Gaza
http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=178266

Iranian Marines Set to Escort Flotilla 'To Teach Israel Lessons'
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/138022

Iran aid ships for Gaza awaiting ministry nod
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jZmOCJphOolCSXBx4J1zi8kMrWLA