Israel Kills 10 aid workers

PirateShampoo

Do you really think Israel would allow Iranian millatary ships to enter its waters.

uprising2

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Do you really think Israel would allow Iranian millatary ships to enter its waters.

Thats a silly question.

EDIT:
Besides their sending Aid ships not military, possibly with armed revolutionary guards, but we all know Israel can and will blow it out of the water should their elite commando's not be able to board it, which they won't.

It's a kamakazee mission with a whole new ball game as an outcome, I'd say war is on the horizon TBH.

EDIT EDIT:
And I can't see Iranian military ships making themselves sitting ducks in the suez canal or making the round trip, and should miltary ships want to reach Gaza they don't need to enter Israeli waters.

Yitzhak Rabin

This is the kind of thing that absolutely destroys the aid flotilla's credibility. The original peaceful flotilla has now been hijacked by Iran to further their own political goals.<br />
<br />
I hope the red cresent has the cop on not to be taken advantage of.<br />
<br />
Perhaps Iran should look at their own shop before moralising to other nations about human rights. Only last week they were announcing how they will crush any protests against admadinejad's fraudulent elections.

robtri

Brown Bomber wrote: »

This should put all this nonsense to bed. I am here to discuss the massacre on the Mavi Marmara, that is what I am trying to do except others in their attempts to be apologetic for mass murder try to defelect away from the massacre by bringing Hamas, rockets, swimming pools etc into it. I have said many times that they have no relevance to the discussion.

what about all the other incidents of Isreal's attrcoites you brought up then....

ultain

So..Israel have agreed to an internal investigation funny that...Is it not like a family investigating a murder their son committed? and they will have the option of whether or not the findings will go public.

Run_to_da_hills

ultain wrote: »

So..Israel have agreed to an internal investigation funny that...Is it not like a family investigating a murder their son committed? and they will have the option of whether or not the findings will go public.

Worse again they have chozen David Trimble. :rolleyes:

IrelandSpirit

Interesting bit about the IDF video of siege of 'Mavi Marmara' being hoaxed:

http://beforeitsnews.com/news/74/928/Israel_Defense_Force_video_of_siege_of_Mavi_Marmara_Hoaxed.html

uprising2

Guards won't escort aid ships
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/World/Story/STIStory_540162.html

uprising2

Israel news saying one Iranian Aid ship has set sail.

Tehran's preparations for sending an aid convoy to Gaza are at their peak, and two organizations plan to send ships to the Strip. One of the ships seems to have already set sail, and the other is slated to leave this Saturday. They are expected to arrive at Gaza's shores via the Red Sea.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3906136,00.html

Iranian Aid Ship Aims To Break Gaza Blockade
An Iranian aid ship heads for Gaza in an attempt to break the Israeli siege of the Strip.
http://www.eurasiareview.com/201006153259/iranian-aid-ship-aims-to-break-gaza-blockade.html

Iranian aid ships head for Gaza
One ship left port on Sunday and another will depart by Friday, loaded with food, construction material and toys, the report said. The boats would be part of international efforts to break Israel's isolation of the Gaza Strip.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE65D0HG.htm

Run_to_da_hills

If this is official I would like to know how they will brand the Iranian Red Crescent.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hR7eJYA8am1_-mgleFV2Ah9rxAxw

IrelandSpirit

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If this is official I would like to know how they will brand the Iranian Red Crescent.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hR7eJYA8am1_-mgleFV2Ah9rxAxw

Oh man, craaazy! On one level though it's kinda hopeful, shows them up for what they are, and shows how desperate they are too.

Run_to_da_hills

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Oh man, craaazy! On one level though it's kinda hopeful, shows them up for what they are, and shows how desperate they are too.

Its only fanning the flames, something the Israelis are good at.

Old saying, takes one to know one.

Brown Bomber

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If this is official I would like to know how they will brand the Iranian Red Crescent.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hR7eJYA8am1_-mgleFV2Ah9rxAxw

But a senior Israeli official said on condition of anonymity that "the IHH charity is considered as criminal in Israel because it supports terrorism and has close links with Hamas," the Islamist rulers of Gaza.

Israel has said that the flotilla had been carrying out a "terrorist operation."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hR7eJYA8am1_-mgleFV2Ah9rxAxw

hmmmmmmm............???

Akiva Tor, Israel's Consul General in San Francisco
(...)
The soldiers landed armed with paintball guns, expecting to encounter political demonstration and peace activists. They were set upon with prepared rods, knives and firebombs. One commando was thrown from the deck, and two naval commanders were shot, probably with their own emergency firearms, which had been seized from them.
(...)
Tor said, "They should have done the whole thing differently; they did not prepare for the foe that they faced. In this kind of incident, they did not prepare for a violent opposition.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_15247373?nclick_check=1

So.....

They knew they were terrorists all along but they "did not prepare for violent oppossition". Laughable. Is it getting through to anyone yet it is just lies upon lies until the lies become truth.

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Do you really think Israel would allow Iranian millatary ships to enter its waters.

Nope, but you see it is called Palestinian waters. Unless you think Israel has the right to claim whichever land and sea they see fit in the name of self-defence?

Quote:Robtri

what about all the other incidents of Isreal's attrcoites you brought up then....

zzzzzzzz...........

Di0genes

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If this is official I would like to know how they will brand the Iranian Red Crescent.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hR7eJYA8am1_-mgleFV2Ah9rxAxw

Considering there are have been several documented cases of Palestinian Red Crescent Ambulances being used to carry weapons, bombs and terrorists. Indeed in 2002 Wafa Iris a Red Crescent paramedic carried out a suicide attack injuring 100 people and killing a 81 year old man.

But why let the fact that the situation is far more complicated than Israelis bad, Palestinians good. Heaven forfend that if your enemy uses ambulances as ammunition suppliers and medics as bombs that the Israelis should still treat the Red Crescent as automatically innocent.

uprising2

Di0genes wrote: »

Considering there are have been several documented cases of Palestinian Red Crescent Ambulances being used to carry weapons, bombs and terrorists. Indeed in 2002 Wafa Iris a Red Crescent paramedic carried out a suicide attack injuring 100 people and killing a 81 year old man.

Maybe the paramedic's emotions got the better of him after scraping body part after body part up including innocent childrens over a period of time, doing that day after day can't be healthy for one's mental health, destruction breeds destruction, do to them as they have done to me.
I believe I have no right to take any life, I'd love nothing more than see us all caring and helping each other along through life, a safe peaceful life, but should anybody harm any member of my family I would'nt think twice about ending his life, so while I hope I never need to kill anybody, I know in certain circumstances I wouldn't seek any other alternitive.

Your casualty count 100 people including an 81 year old man is terrible, and regretable, but an oppressed people will always strike back at the aggressor sooner or later, Israel needs to understand that the people of Gaza are human, with all the emotions associated with being human, love, hate, revenge, sympathy, compassion, they also love their children like us all, and should anybody directly or indirectly cause suffering or harm to those children, they must pay.

Same goes for the Israeli side also, they too love their children.

Hamas was founded as a resistance movement, Harakat Al-Muqawama Al-Islamia" -- Islamic Resistance Movement, they are by no means angels, but why need a resistance movement if there is no oppression, so the oppressor/agressor are actually the founders of resistance movements throughout the world.

Di0genes wrote: »

But why let the fact that the situation is far more complicated than Israelis bad, Palestinians good. Heaven forfend that if your enemy uses ambulances as ammunition suppliers and medics as bombs that the Israelis should still treat the Red Crescent as automatically innocent.

It's not really that complicated, stolen land, a poor example of democracy.

Anyway the point being made is that the aid ships, the ones the Israeli's murdered a few people on a few weeks ago are now TERRORISTS, say the most evil inhumane regime on the planet.

JERUSALEM — Israel considers the Turkish Muslim charity IHH involved in organising a flotilla of aid ships to Gaza last month as a "terrorist organisation," public television said Wednesday.

PirateShampoo

uprising2 wrote: »

Maybe the paramedic's emotions got the better of him after scraping body part after body part up including innocent childrens over a period of time, doing that day after day can't be healthy for one's mental health, destruction breeds destruction, do to them as they have done to me.

So a paramedic who has attended a lot of car crashes is gonna drive through grafton street one busy saturday?

IrelandSpirit

PirateShampoo wrote: »

So a paramedic who has attended a lot of car crashes is gonna drive through grafton street one busy saturday?

Un-fukcing-believable - what kind of warped logic compels you to even try to make this comparison anyway? The countless men, women and children uprooted from their homes to be murdered, mutilated and imprisoned in a perpetual war-zone is NOT the same thing as a car crash!

FFS ... :mad:

PirateShampoo

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Un-fukcing-believable - what kind of warped logic compels you to even try to make this comparison anyway? The countless men, women and children uprooted from their homes to be murdered, mutilated and imprisoned in a perpetual war-zone is NOT the same thing as a car crash!

FFS ... :mad:

Yea thats right, im the one making the silly comparison of that a paramedic seen 2 many suicide aftermaths so he decided to see if he could do better.

Heres another one, a paramedic see's to many deaths from drink driving to blows up a pub.

How is that logic any different from the logic implied by uprising?

IrelandSpirit

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Yea thats right, im the one making the silly comparison.

Heres another one, a paramedic see's to many deaths from drink driving to blows up a pub.

How is that logic any different from the logic implied by uprising?

Are you serious? I'm not saying seeing a car crash isn't a traumatic experience, but ... you really think what's happening in Gaza is the same thing?

Ok, using your 'analogy', you're a paramedic working up Grafton Street. You drive by a group of thugs fire-bombing your home with your entire family inside, all of them, your kids, everybody - set ablaze right there in front of you.

And then you read about it the next day, and nothing's gonna be done about it. In fact everybody's saying it's no big deal, no more serious than getting drunk and crashing a car. How would you feel?

Still think it's the same thing, right?

Christ, at last it's happened, I've gone mad, can't believe i'm answering this post ...

PirateShampoo

lol you have invented a whole story to justify a ression why this guy blew himself up. You dont even know if he was a paramedic or just dressed as one.

If it was a Israeli who had done this, then we would have 4 threads on it.

Heres another analogy for you, fireman sees burnt people so he goes mad buring people.

IrelandSpirit

PirateShampoo wrote: »

lol you have invented a whole story to justify a ression why this guy blew himself up. You dont even know if he was a paramedic or just dressed as one.

If it was a Israeli who had done this, then we would have 4 threads on it.

Heres another analogy for you, fireman sees burnt people so he goes mad buring people.

hey, the paramedic was in your analogy, not mine ... and what now ... mad firemen burning people? Thing is ... fukcs sake, doing it again. Nothing.

uprising2

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Christ, at last it's happened, I've gone mad, can't believe i'm answering this post ...

Leave it, let it be, never let a fool control your emotions, readers of this thread know right from wrong, sense from nonsense, truth from lies.

EDIT:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Idris

Actually she was a woman, but people don't get into the frame of mind that it's better to blow yourself and others up at 28 years of age for no reason, these people endure, thats all they do is endure,and pray it will soon be over.
Generations live under constant mental fear and torment.

Trauma, grief, and PTSD in Palestinian children victims of War on Gaza
http://www.gcmhp.net/File_files/ResearchJan2k9.htm

PirateShampoo

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

hey, the paramedic was in your analogy, not mine ... and what now ... mad firemen burning people? Thing is ... fukcs sake, doing it again. Nothing.

O'Rly?

uprising2 wrote: »

Maybe the paramedic's emotions got the better of him after scraping body part after body part up including innocent childrens over a period of time, doing that day after day can't be healthy for one's mental health, destruction breeds destruction, do to them as they have done to me.

Are you really that upset? Think you might want to go for a walk.

uprising2

wonder why paramedics would become suicide bombers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4TMaWuLfA8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGjHrLRH3uo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OiF4fG0y5s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1gPue1PaDc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37MFa7ZKQWo

Maybe the last one belongs on the "Do you trust the mainstream madia" poll, but here it is, shows SkyNews for what they are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imAvXIm_iuw

PirateShampoo

So you support suicide bombers?

I ask this as you seem to be trying to put together a case to justify there actions.

uprising2

PirateShampoo wrote: »

So you support suicide bombers?

I ask this as you seem to be trying to put together a case to justify there their actions.

So you support mass murderers?

I ask this as you seem to be trying to put together a case to justify killing civilians in an enclosed space.

I don't condone innocent lives being taken on any side of any divide.
But I can understand how somebody under those circumstances would consider it an option, but killing ANY civilian man, woman or child is WRONG.

PirateShampoo

So you can understand murdering on the Palestinian side of the divide and seem to justify it, but you condone the murdering on the opposite Israeli side of the divide.

A bit hypocritical don't you think?

Also I'm not the one posting loads of links and creating situations in which suicide bombing is OK.

robtri

uprising2 wrote: »

I don't condone innocent lives being taken on any side of any divide.
But I can understand how somebody under those circumstances would consider it an option, but killing ANY civilian man, woman or child is WRONG.

agreed... but how come you cant come out and condone the palestines who murder israli's

you seem to continually overlook that point...

robtri

uprising2 wrote: »

wonder why paramedics would become suicide bombers?

Maybe the last one belongs on the "Do you trust the mainstream madia" poll, but here it is, shows SkyNews for what they are.

seriously ... whats the point in posting that ****...

honestly???? whats the point cause i cant see it...

Brown Bomber

robtri wrote: »

agreed... but how come you cant come out and condone the palestines who murder israli's

you seem to continually overlook that point...

Seriously. this is getting ****ing ridiculous. If you can't tell the difference between rocket attacks against a nation with early warning detection systems that has killed something like 10 people in 10 years and collective punishment and all that goes with it you are living in a fantasy land.

It's like saying a pickpocket and a rapist are both criminals therefore they need to be punished equally. Its insane.

NOBODY, AND I MEAN NOBODY has condoned Palestinian missiles against civilians. What Uprising has done is given a personal account where he out of desperation would resort to such resistance, where there is no other resistance.

I'd love to see you come up with a valid reason (away from cliches- "Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map" "blah blah blah" "only democracy in the middle east" "al qaeda" "terrorists" ) for Isreal killing 1400 not much longer than a year ago and more importantly killing unarmed civilians in international waters.

Brown Bomber

Think about this...

If we could turn back time to the holocaust, you'd be expecting us to treat the Nazis "fairly" because the Jews boycotted German business'.

No difference to what you are saying.

History will make a fool of you and any that thinks like you.

PirateShampoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

What Uprising has done is given a personal account where he out of desperation would resort to such resistance, where there is no other resistance.

No all he did was create a situation in which he could justify the situation where Suicide Bomber was under the guise of a Paramdic blew him self to peices trying kill as many people as he could.

PirateShampoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Think about this...

If we could turn back time to the holocaust, you'd be expecting us to treat the Nazis "fairly" because the Jews boycotted German business'.

No difference to what you are saying.

History will make a fool of you and any that thinks like you.

I have no idea what any of this has to do with what is being discussed.

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

So you support suicide bombers?

I ask this as you seem to be trying to put together a case to justify there actions.

I've posted the Goldstone Report for you specifically if I remember correctly.

Have you read it?

If so, does this Jewish, South African Judge representing the UN condone suicide bombers?

Because he is critical of Israeli humanitarian and war crimes against the Palestinian people.

Correct me if I am wrong but in your world to be against war crimes by Isreal seems to mean you are for war crimes in general.

That is extremely ****ed up to me, please explain.

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

I have no idea what any of this has to do with what is being discussed.

That my friend is the problem.

PirateShampoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I've posted the Goldstone Report for you specifically if I remember correctly.

Have you read it?

You remember wrong once again.

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

No all he did was create a situation in which he could justify the situation where Suicide Bomber was under the guise of a Paramdic blew him self to peices trying kill as many people as he could.

No what he was doing was proposing a likely scenario.

You kill my innocent loved one I'll want to kill you.

You Jew kill my innocent loved one I'll want to kill you Jews.

You Arab kill my innocent loved one I'll want to kill you Arabs.

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

You remember wrong once again.

Linked here.

Please read. It'll only take 5 mins.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66209605&postcount=231

PirateShampoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

No what he was doing was proposing a likely scenario.

Why?

Do you create situations for justification for the Israeli murderers or just Palestinian?

uprising2

PirateShampoo wrote: »

So you can understand murdering on the Palestinian side of the divide and seem to justify it, but you condone the murdering on the opposite Israeli side of the divide.

A bit hypocritical don't you think?

Also I'm not the one posting loads of links and creating situations in which suicide bombing is OK.

No not hypocritical, show me where I condone killing, if you can't apologise.
Yes I can understand oppressed people fighting back against a foreign inhumane invading heavily armed force, if I were unfortunate enough to be born in Gaza I'd be part of the resistance, no doubt about it.
And I never condoned any killing, I said I can understand, not the same.

robtri wrote: »

agreed... but how come you cant come out and condone the palestines who murder israli's

you seem to continually overlook that point...

I joined this forum (in this carnation) in Jan 2009 as castlead was underway, please supply a list of Israeli's killed since then and links to circumstances and I'll call a spade a spade, it's just I haven't heard too much of that type of thing lately.

robtri wrote: »

seriously ... whats the point in posting that ****...

honestly???? whats the point cause i cant see it...

Erm, Erm, I was on a youtube roll and George Galloway was putting a few truths to the skynews bias, actually since you enjoyed it so much here's another of George standing his ground on FOX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgZbzfP7JIs

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Why?

Do you create situations for justification for the Israeli murderers or just Palestinian?

No. I don't create anything. You seem uncapable of putting yourself in their position due to complete absence of compassion for your fellow man. If my child was killed by a sniper for example ...just because he could and their was no possibility of justice through normal civil channels I would attempt to take justice into my own hands out of love for my child. I am sure of it.

But of course if you were in Gaza and you couldn't feed your starving children and your brothers children who lost both parents to the IDF in Castlead, your house was bulldozed so you live in shelter, your father died in an Isreali checkpoint because they wouldn't allow him through for treatment, your 10 year old boy was shot by an IDF solider and on and on you'd call a family meeting and say

"seriously lads someone fired a rocket that landed in some Isreali settlers swimming pool - they got an awful fright, lets be fair about this."

PirateShampoo

uprising2 wrote: »

, if I were unfortunate enough to be born in Gaza I'd be part of the resistance, no doubt about it.

So you would rather be part of the problem and continue the cycle of violence and kill Israelis instead of finding a solution to the situation in which both sides could live together?

PirateShampoo

Brown Bomber wrote: »

No. I don't create anything. You seem uncapable of putting yourself in their position due to complete absence of compassion for your fellow man. If my child was killed by a sniper for example ...just because he could and their was no possibility of justice through normal civil channels I would attempt to take justice into my own hands out of love for my child. I am sure of it.

Your doing it right there :rolleyes:

uprising2

PirateShampoo wrote: »

So you would rather be part of the problem and continue the cycle of violence and kill Israelis instead of finding a solution to the situation in which both sides could live together?

No I'd rather be part of the solution for a just and genuine peace, and if I felt my fellow humans were being treated just and fairly I'd embrace my new friends 100%.

If I watched an aggressor put every person I love and care for through daily horror and terror, killing loved ones year after year, day after day, I'd 100% embrace a different path.

uprising2

PirateShampoo wrote: »

So you would rather be part of the problem and continue the cycle of violence and kill Israelis instead of finding a solution to the situation in which both sides could live together?

You are part of the problem.

Brown Bomber

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Your doing it right there :rolleyes:

Look don't take this personally but you seem to view Palestinian people as less than Israelis and Westerners i.e. less than human I don't view it as racism on your part just conformity. Its the same way people see starving Africans as a different species.

Your not aware of it but it is never too late to learn.

I'll try to explain in the simplest terms I can think what you are defending (and you aren't even aware you are defending it).

A big strong physical man traps his small defenceless wife in their home. He knocks her about a lot, sometimes severely, almost kills her lots of times. Not only this, he degrades her in every way humanly possible: sexual assault, food deprivation, makes her sleep outside, beats her children etc Every now and again she slaps back, sometimes even first.This has no effect on the man. Everybody is aware that the man abuses the woman. Nobody does anything. Some neighbours complain to the local policeman but the policeman does nothing, in fact he gives the man sticks to beat the woman with.

You are defending the man/Israel. Wake up for your own sake.

bonkey

Guys...less of the personal comments.

Also...this seems to be turning, once again, into a political discussion.

There's a politics forum, and it has no shortage of threads on Israel/Palestine, and the recent events. If that's what you want to discuss, take it there. Leave this one for the conspiracies.

IrelandSpirit

At least that vid's doing the rounds - though didn't notice on first viewing the sniper on that IDF chopper:


Smuggled video shows Israeli snipers aiming, firing at Gaza Flotilla activists


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOi4b_ihDno

studiorat

uprising2 wrote: »

Yes I can understand oppressed people fighting back against a foreign inhumane invading heavily armed force, if I were unfortunate enough to be born in Gaza I'd be part of the resistance, no doubt about it.
And I never condoned any killing, I said I can understand, not the same.

Which resistance?

It's not as simple as supporting resistance, when in reality you could be supporting groups who are quite happy to fire on un-armed civilian demonstrations when they see fit.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL12626820._CH_.2400

I wonder does the story ring any bells of events in the past over here?