If you want a mongrel go to the pound

Hermit07

The latest designer dog trend is rottweiler crosses. Ive seen Rottzingers and bullweilers ads today:mad:

A well bred rottweiler is a fantastic dog. They have everything in one package. A reputable breeder will use only excellent examples of the breed and health test their dogs. They put a lot of time and effort into them.

Then you have these cowboys crossing rottweilers with various other breeds and trying to make a quick buck. Now when one of these poorly bred animals attacks a child which breed do you reckon will get the blame?

Please if you want to get yourself a crossbred head down to your local pound or rescue centre rather than putting money in the pockets of these people who are basically small scale puppy famers. No reputable breeder would breed crossbreeds.

morganafay

That sounds pretty dangerous, since of course they won't bother breeding them for good temperament either . . .

Morganna

well said Hermit .

andreac

Well said, but to be honest, same goes for all of these crosses and designer breeds, giving them fancy names and charging a fortune for them.

Can people not realise they are being ripped off?? They honestly think they are getting a good deal when they pay 400/500 for a mongrel?

As you say, go to the pound if you want a mongrel and dont line these so called breeders pockets with your hard earned cash!!!:mad:

EGAR

Welcome to my world . Most of these dogs end up on a vets table or their desperate owner on the phone to me.

In the last 2 years I have noticed an upsurge of such crosses. And there is an idiot who crossbreeds Great Dane with Pit Bulls. If I ever find him, I'm afraid I would lose my cool.

lrushe

EGAR wrote: »

And there is an idiot who crossbreeds Great Dane with Pit Bulls. If I ever find him, I'm afraid I would lose my cool.

God, that just sounds like an accident waiting to happen in the wrongs hands!!!

Jinxi

Excuse my ingnorance, but what is the problem with cross breeding pure breds(especially as there are still idiots that pay money for one breed over another). Surely temperment is largly influenced by upbringing, and by mixing genes you make more resilient dogs. They cannot be bed for money as your not guarenteed to pass on the exact same genes that the origional dogs display.
Or is the argument that they are diluting or taking away from the pure breds? because this is exactly how they got pure breds in the first place!

EGAR

Temperament is not just due to upbringing, ALOT of it is breeding.

It takes a long time to create a genetically stable breed which produces true to geno- and phaeno-type.

The worst litter I have ever had here were Kerry Blue x APBT.

If you crossbreed then you get crossbred dogs, you do not get a designer breed. If you crossbreed the crossbred dogs then you get mongrels. Pure and simple.

A well bred dog who's parents have been health tested it one thing, a nilly willy pairing of two breeds which may not be compatible temperment wise is another. At the end of the days it's just another money racket.

Give it a *cool* sounding name and you can ask for more .

Fool and his money comes to mind!

EGAR

and by mixing genes you make more resilient dogs.

It's a common misconception that crossbred dogs are healthier and live longer. You are playing genetic roulette.

TooManyDogs

EGAR wrote: »

The worst litter I have ever had here were Kerry Blue x APBT.

Holy crap! :eek:
What a mix, you'd want to know what you were doing with that combo.

smokin ace

cross breeding has been going on for thousands of years without cross breeding we would not have all sorts of breeding that we have today look at the humble jack russell the kennel club do not recognise the Jack Russell as a pedigree breed and i have cross bred a full bred whippet and a full bred greyhound 7 years ago myself and i have a bitch pup from that breeding and she is unbelievable as a pet and a gem around the kids and some cross breeds do make very good pets but some of the cross that is going on today around the country should just not happen who knows what the pups will turn out like first of all they are mongrels and they could grow up to be a very very dangerous dog the lad that cross bred the great dane with the pit bull should be called to answer his reason for breeding like that there is no reason to breed a dog that way the result would be getting very unpredictable dogs when the pups grow and with there size they would be unstoppable if they went on the rampage

Jinxi

Stable breeds? How many pups from said stable breeds are born with " imperfections" and are deemed unshowable, unbreedable or culled?
I have been involved since childhood around breeder(repuable ones, not puppy farms).
Never did I hear any breeder ask about the temperment of a dog when they required one, only their lineage. Due to pure breeding I have seen pups born with the most atrocious deformities.
The "stable breeds" you refer to include the ones who's temperment you are so afraid of?
And how exactly do you balance temperments? Would love to know as I am considering breeding myself?

Morganna

EGAR wrote: »

It's a common misconception that crossbred dogs are healthier and live longer. You are playing genetic roulette.

Well said egar

EGAR

Perhaps you ought to read my post again, I wrote stable breeds as in genetically stable, i.e. producing offspring identical in pheno and geno type. I also said just because you cross two breeds it doesnt mean that you automatically get healthy dogs. Please do not try to put words into my mouth .

Also, you seem to misunderstand my posts intentionally: I do not breed, I run a rescue and nearly all my own dogs are crossbreeds. I do not advocate breeding nor am I against responsible breeding with the proper health checks and temperaments.

Seeing that you seem to know nothing about genetics and temperament, I would advise against you breeding dogs, the world is already full of BYB's. :rolleyes:

Morganna

Well said again Egar.

morganafay

Jinxi wrote: »

Excuse my ingnorance, but what is the problem with cross breeding pure breds(especially as there are still idiots that pay money for one breed over another). Surely temperment is largly influenced by upbringing, and by mixing genes you make more resilient dogs. They cannot be bed for money as your not guarenteed to pass on the exact same genes that the origional dogs display.
Or is the argument that they are diluting or taking away from the pure breds? because this is exactly how they got pure breds in the first place!

Because most people creating "designer" breeds (or crossing two dogs that might be a dangerous combination in the wrong hands) are irresponsible breeders. They're just doing it for money and probably haven't gotten the dogs healthed checked first.

I know a lot of purebred dog breeders are irresponsible, but you can find good ones, but are there many responsible breeders who breed crossbreds? At least if someone has gone to the trouble of getting well bred parents, and registering the pups and all, then hopefully they'll have them all vet checked and everything. Compared to someone who probably just decided to cross any two dogs because they were cute or something.

If they were crossing them for a good reason, like to make a non-shed dog, or to get the best of two breeds, and they chose good healthy parents, then that is different. But they are still risking certain things, like genetic problems, but also that they mightn't be able to find homes for the crossbred puppies.

And if someone wants a certain kind of dog (they want a dog of a certain size, good temperament because temperament does differ sometimes from breed to breed, and with suitable fur type, etc. like how some people might want a short haired dog) then they might want a purebred.

ISDW

smokin ace wrote: »

cross breeding has been going on for thousands of years without cross breeding we would not have all sorts of breeding that we have today look at the humble jack russell the kennel club do not recognise the Jack Russell as a pedigree breed and i have cross bred a full bred whippet and a full bred greyhound 7 years ago myself and i have a bitch pup from that breeding and she is unbelievable as a pet and a gem around the kids and some cross breeds do make very good pets but some of the cross that is going on today around the country should just not happen who knows what the pups will turn out like first of all they are mongrels and they could grow up to be a very very dangerous dog the lad that cross bred the great dane with the pit bull should be called to answer his reason for breeding like that there is no reason to breed a dog that way the result would be getting very unpredictable dogs when the pups grow and with there size they would be unstoppable if they went on the rampage

Yeah they do, and have done for a few years now.

Jinxi wrote: »

Stable breeds? How many pups from said stable breeds are born with " imperfections" and are deemed unshowable, unbreedable or culled?
I have been involved since childhood around breeder(repuable ones, not puppy farms).
Never did I hear any breeder ask about the temperment of a dog when they required one, only their lineage. Due to pure breeding I have seen pups born with the most atrocious deformities.
The "stable breeds" you refer to include the ones who's temperment you are so afraid of?
And how exactly do you balance temperments? Would love to know as I am considering breeding myself?

In my opinion then they are not reputable breeders.

Jinxi

Yeah me so dumb.. find it hard to type!:P
I know a bit about genetics...I know that to make a species strong you need genetic versitility. I know that thats why most species pick partners that vary genetically from them.
I know people are the reason that pure breeds exist, due to the typical omnipotent egotistical breed that WE are.
I agree that you shouldn't cross breed, because of the genetic freaks you start with(pure breds) are so unstable to begin with.
I wasn't talking about breeding my dog...maybe you should read MY post more closely:D

And just to be clear...most breeders (good and bad) don't breed for the good of their health. Its a money industry. Its usually for a return on the investment. Aslong as there are people who will pay €300+ for a specific pup(crossbred or pure bred) people will continue to breed genetic freaks

morganafay

Jinxi wrote: »

I have been involved since childhood around breeder(repuable ones, not puppy farms).
Never did I hear any breeder ask about the temperment of a dog when they required one, only their lineage. /QUOTE]

Well breeders should only breed from dogs with good temperaments, otherwise they are not great breeders IMO. Unless maybe they saw the dog themselves and saw their temperament.

I don't think breeding purebred dogs is wrong (if you do it properly) and I am one of those idiots who would pay €400 for a purebred dog, because I'd know that it was bred to have a good temperament (I have Cavaliers, and they are dogs with great temperaments). Also because I'd know it'd be small, and I don't have space for a big dog. (Obviously I'd only go to a good breeder aswell, to hopefully avoid health problems.)

Morganna

ISDW wrote: »

Yeah they do, and have done for a few years now.



In my opinion then they are not reputable breeders.

I agree isdw

morganafay

Jinxi wrote: »

I know a bit about genetics...I know that to make a species strong you need genetic versitility. I know that thats why most species pick partners that vary genetically from them.

I don't know if that's true or not, but I thought that people usually chose partners that looked like them? And then there is that thing when long lost family members are sexually attracted to each other . . .

EGAR

Nature has safeguards in place to balance inbreeding and outbreeding. Dogs were created by humans and their breeding and genetic control is steered by us. And too many don't know what they are doing and too many breed dogs for what they look like and completely disregard health and temperament.

Jinxi

morganafay wrote: »

I don't know if that's true or not, but I thought that people usually chose partners that looked like them? And then there is that thing when long lost family members are sexually attracted to each other . . .

I don't know how they do things down your side of the country, but that tends to be frowned upon here:eek:

All joking aside, nature goes out of its way to create genetic versitility. We created social taboos about family inter-breeding(unless you are the royal family;)). Plants who have the same sex organs on the same flower time it so they ripen seperatly to avoid interbreeding. Animals chase their young away to stop them interbreeding. ThaTS BECAUSE IT IS BAD FOR THE SPECIES. It leaves it genetically vulnerable.
Evolution would not have been possible with out genetic versitility.
The only living being that produce asexually/self fertilise are lower species such as worms/singular celled plants etc.

Dogs were not created by humans(the arrogance). We domesticated wild dogs(they think) and then began breeding ones with the features they liked.

EGAR

Sigh, we are talking about domestic modern breeds... they were created by us. Nature would never come up with some of the carricatures of dogs which nowadays walk our streets.

I am bowing out of this *discussion*. Life is too short .

Night night!

ISDW

Jinxi wrote: »

Yeah me so dumb.. find it hard to type!:P
I know a bit about genetics...I know that to make a species strong you need genetic versitility. I know that thats why most species pick partners that vary genetically from them.
I know people are the reason that pure breeds exist, due to the typical omnipotent egotistical breed that WE are.
I agree that you shouldn't cross breed, because of the genetic freaks you start with(pure breds) are so unstable to begin with.
I wasn't talking about breeding my dog...maybe you should read MY post more closely:D

And just to be clear...most breeders (good and bad) don't breed for the good of their health. Its a money industry. Its usually for a return on the investment. Aslong as there are people who will pay €300+ for a specific pup(crossbred or pure bred) people will continue to breed genetic freaks

Maybe, but again, not what I would call good breeders. Good breeders breed to improve the breed, or because they want a pup, but its very difficult to have a litter of just one pup. Good breeders don't make money from breeding, not when you consider the health tests they have done, the vet care for the bitch and the pups etc, the stud fee, the travel costs of going to see potential sires etc etc. Those that I would term good breeders struggle to break even on a litter.

morganafay

Jinxi wrote: »

I don't know how they do things down your side of the country, but that tends to be frowned upon here:eek:

All joking aside, nature goes out of its way to create genetic versitility. We created social taboos about family inter-breeding(unless you are the royal family;)). Plants who have the same sex organs on the same flower time it so they ripen seperatly to avoid interbreeding. Animals chase their young away to stop them interbreeding. ThaTS BECAUSE IT IS BAD FOR THE SPECIES. It leaves it genetically vulnerable.
Evolution would not have been possible with out genetic versitility.
The only living being that produce asexually/self fertilise are lower species such as worms/singular celled plants etc.

Most people around here are pretty inbred actually! Thank God my mother left Ireland and found a husband . . . I was gonna put an eek face after mentioning the long lost family attraction thing, but then thought I might insult someone if that happened to them and they read the thread!

I agree with you that closely related animals shouldn't be bred, but just because they're the same breed doesn't mean they're very closely related at all. Otherwise you could argue say that a lot of people in County Cork (for example) are related (distantly) so they shouldn't have kids together. And that we should all move to China or Africa or something and find someone there.

morganafay

ISDW wrote: »

Maybe, but again, not what I would call good breeders. Good breeders breed to improve the breed, or because they want a pup, but its very difficult to have a litter of just one pup. Good breeders don't make money from breeding, not when you consider the health tests they have done, the vet care for the bitch and the pups etc, the stud fee, the travel costs of going to see potential sires etc etc. Those that I would term good breeders struggle to break even on a litter.

Exactly. Good breeders won't breed just for health, they might breed for other characteristics, but they won't breed unhealthy animals.

morganafay

Jinxi wrote: »

And just to be clear...most breeders (good and bad) don't breed for the good of their health. Its a money industry. Its usually for a return on the investment. Aslong as there are people who will pay €300+ for a specific pup(crossbred or pure bred) people will continue to breed genetic freaks

Good breeders will only breed them if they're healthy though, otherwise they're not good breeders. It mightn't be a puppy farm, but if they don't get a vet to say they're healthy, then they're bad breeders really.

But I agree that as long as people will pay money for unhealthy pups then there will be bad breeders.

Buying from really good breeders is much different. There needs to be good breeders or even more people will go to bad breeders, because there will always be a demand for certain breeds of dogs.

Graces7

Is all this just another fad, a novelty? One-up-manship with no regard for the dogs?

Discodog

A good or reputable breeder will put the health & future well being of the dog way ahead of any profit. No wonder they are thin on the ground.