2010 Junior world cup MEGA thread

RuggieBear

i've onl;y caught the last 10mins but all i've seen is Argentina playing rugby and ireland kicking the ball away

dreamer_ire

Just started watching as well. Argentina showed good patience and discipline for that try.

dreamer_ire

Our scrum being slaughtered :mad:

some_dose

Why, oh why do both the Junior and Senior teams suffer from the same affliction of giving away stupid penalties?!

some_dose

RIGHT! Someone needs to start recruiting players from GAA teams where players can actually catch a ball and hold on to a ball when tackled. This is a horrible affliction

Very disappointing tournament for the young lads.

Seems like they had none of the confidence that was such a huge part of their 6N success.

Felt the gameplan was terrible, we have a team of broken field runners, and we're kicking ball > 60% of the time. No stand out performances, afraid to say the team has gone backwards.

Time for the lads to dig deep and prove their worth so that we can see their names again on Provinical and National team sheets for years to come.

Digifriendly

Australia vs S. Africa (35-42) - great game to watch. Video here http://www.irb.com/jwc/video/index.html?videoid=2038897 (you can fast forward).
semi finbal line up -

England vs Australia
New Zealand vs S. Africa

Ciaran-Irl

Digifriendly wrote: »

Australia vs S. Africa (35-42) - great game to watch. Video here http://www.irb.com/jwc/video/index.html?videoid=2038897 (you can fast forward).
semi finbal line up -

England vs Australia
New Zealand vs S. Africa

Looks like it might well be a repeat of last year. Not sure this group of junior all blacks are as good as the last, but they're still likely to win out.

Orizio

RuggieBear wrote: »

i've onl;y caught the last 10mins but all i've seen is Argentina playing rugby and ireland kicking the ball away

Real lack of tactical nous both on and off the pitch.

Hippo

Orizio wrote: »

Real lack of tactical nous both on and off the pitch.

Agree 100%. It was a noticeable feature of our perfomance in the tournament as a whole.

redroar1942

Hippo wrote: »

Agree 100%. It was a noticeable feature of our perfomance in the tournament as a whole.

It would be worse if they had no talent at all! Seems to be a coaching problem which surprises me after the 6N's

treacy52

Massively disappointing level of performance from this group of players. I'm just not really sure where the blame lies. Did the coaching team just drill them with the wrong tactics? It certainly seemed that way.

They are a group of very talented young players who should have been playing without any fear, but there was next to no counter attacking, even when it was definitely on.

Our broken field runners were clearly tearing them apart in the opening stages, but for some reason we just stopped running back at them after that.

The commitment shown under the high ball was also disgraceful and really inexplicable. They just didn't seem to want it as much as the Argentinians, and that lack of attitude is unforgivable.

redroar1942

redroar1942 wrote: »

It would be worse if they had no talent at all! Seems to be a coaching problem which surprises me after the 6N's

I think the opposite, I think its a disgrace that we tried to play conservative rugby with the backline that was available to us. Even our replacements were exciting running and creative players. It made next to no sense to kick so much ball.

The difference between the play in the 6N and the WC was incredible. It was as if they were playing with a monkey on their back, a bridle, blinkers on, however way you want to put it. Our backline was crippled by the tactics used. I would've preferred to see us lose 3 matches playing rugby that suited us, rather than lose 3 matches while "trying not to lose 3 matches", which seemed to be the gameplan.

@ 6N time, we seemed to want to score tries from kick off to final whistle, we attacked from deep, we threw the ball wide.
@ WC, the wingers got the ball from the opposing team more than from their own.

It was disgraceful, we cut ourselves short and paid the price.

thebaz

terrible tournament for Ireland - Maguire was the only standout - seams to get iunjured a lot though - thought McKinney at out half was very poor , good place kicker but nothing else

wonton

nosco wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by wonton
1-court
2-fogarty
3-will hayes be back? would 4 weeks in a row not be too much for buckley
4- o'donoghue
5-dan tuohy
6-ruddock
7-jennings
8-henry
9-redden
10-sexton
11-trimble
12-wallace
13-gavin duffy
14-bowe
15-murphy

my team for friday






Is this a joke? Or are you 12 years old?

well, i think the team i picked was pretty dam close to the actual team.

In future try not to insult someones intelligence in your resaponse to a team choice.

Stev_o

Why can't all rugby matches be like this. Also watching this makes looking at our own U20's attacking play look extremely depressing.

thebaz

Stev_o wrote: »

Why can't all rugby matches be like this. Also watching this makes looking at our own U20's attacking play look extremely depressing.

if we want to be ruthless about this, I'd say professional (he is paid i assume) , Clarke needs to go , the tactics and selections were dreadfull for a talented bunch

danthefan

thebaz wrote: »

if we want to be ruthless about this, I'd say professional (he is paid i assume) , Clarke needs to go , the tactics and selections were dreadfull for a talented bunch

Kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick....

Foxtrol

They defeated Samoa 37 -10 and now play Scotland on Monday for 9th place.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/21_21223.php

Didn't realise 8 of them are eligible next year.

subfreq

At junior levels more than at any other time I believe it is crucial to encourage and promote running rugby. Young players have to be brought through with a culture that gives them the instinct for open running play.

It's the great disaster of English rugby by and large at the top level when they have all the elite players and you hear them trying to *COACH* them to run with the ball in the hand and how to develop a side step. It's so ridiculous it's laughable.

The youth level is where you instill those ethics and instincts and see which players are able to excel.

CouchSmart

Pity there was no cameras at this game. Would've been nice to see the guys getting the win. Maybe Setanta will sort something for the Scotland game, doubt it though.

Arrogance

Sad to see one of the best Irish underage teams employing such tactics.

Most say that it would be a good return if 3 of the 15 players go onto be pros.

Well on that team Conway is already a pro, Ruddock is starting an international for the senior team and the likes of Macken, Butler, Dominic Ryan, Zebo and Spence have already started games for their provinces.

irishbucsfan

Stev_o wrote: »

Why can't all rugby matches be like this. Also watching this makes looking at our own U20's attacking play look extremely depressing.

Because most teams can tackle. That was appalling defense.

Those players will be right at home in the bottom feeder clubs of the S15. Although that Aussie right winger is a class act.

Digifriendly

Australia vs New Zealand final is live on S4C (FTA on satellite and available for some on eastern seaboard via DTT) as well as Sky Sports on Monday at 11.00pm.

Risteard

Fresh from their first win of the tournament, the Ireland Under-20s will look to beat their Scottish counterparts for the second time in three months and finish the IRB Junior World Championship on a high.

Allen Clarke's youngsters overcame Scotland 44-15 to lift the RBS Under-20 6 Nations trophy in Athlone in March, and a victory on Monday afternoon would see them finish ninth overall at the Argentinian event.

The Irish management have continued their squad rotation policy for this 9th-10th place play-off. There are three changes in the backs, with Eoin Griffin and Nevin Spence restored to the centre berths and John Cooney returning at scrum half.

Spence has recovered from a back injury to take over from David McSharry at inside centre.

Hat-trick hero from the Samoan game, Andrew Boyle, retains his place on the right wing, while his back-three colleagues Andrew Conway and Simon Zebo are set for their fifth successive tournament starts. Boyle and Conway are both still 18.

Hooker and team captain Niall Annett and number 8 Paddy Butler have also been ever-present in the Ireland starting line-up.

Up front, there are two changes as second row David O'Callaghan and flanker Dominic Ryan return.

Robin O'Sullivan, who was called into the squad in place of senior tourist Rhys Ruddock, and Mike Kelliher, an injury replacement for Darren Hudson (shoulder), are new inclusions on the replacements bench.

IRELAND UNDER-20 Team & Replacements (v Scotland U-20s, IRB Junior World Championship, Club Atletico Estudiantes, Parana, Monday, June 21, kick-off 12pm local time/4pm Irish time):

15 - Andrew Conway (Blackrock College/Leinster)
14 - Andrew Boyle (UCD/Leinster)
13 - Eoin Griffin (Corinthians/Connacht)
12 - Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)
10 - Noel Reid (UCD/Leinster)
9 - John Cooney (UCD/Leinster)
1 - Bryan Cagney (UCC/Munster)
2 - Niall Annett (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) (capt)
3 - Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)
4 - David O'Callaghan (UCC/Munster)
5 - Brian Hayes (Cork Constitution/Munster)
6 - Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
7 - Brian O'Hara (UL Bohemians/Munster)
8 - Paddy Butler (Shannon/Munster)

Replacements:

16 - David Doyle (UCD/Leinster)
17 - Denis Buckley (Corinthians/Connacht)
18 - Jordi Murphy (Blackrock College/Leinster)
19 - Robin O'Sullivan (Bective Rangers/Leinster)
20 - Michael Heaney (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
21 - James McKinney (Queen's University/Ulster)
22 - Mike Kelliher (Richmond/Munster)

Mike Kelliher has been called up for Darren Hudson.

Nice to see Richmond represented.:)

ktulu123

Is this being broadcast anywhere?

CouchSmart

IRB JUNIOR WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP - 9TH-10TH PLACE PLAY-OFF: Monday, June 21 IRELAND UNDER-20s 53 SCOTLAND UNDER-20s 23, Club Atletico Estudiantes, Parana
Scorers: Ireland: Tries: Andrew Conway 3, Noel Reid, Simon Zebo, Niall Annett, John Cooney; Cons: Noel Reid 6; Pens: Simon Zebo, Noel Reid
Scotland: Tries: Robert Harley, Stuart McInally; Cons: Duncan Weir 2; Pens: Duncan Weir 3
Full-back Andrew Conway helped himself to a hat-trick of tries as his Ireland side completed their time in Argentina on a positive note.
The Irish scored seven tries in all, with half-backs Noel Reid and John Cooney, winger Simon Zebo and team captain Niall Annett also crossing the Scottish whitewash.
Reid finished the game with 20 points, including six conversions and a penalty. Having led 25-16 at half-time, Allen Clarke's youngsters put the result beyond doubt with tries from Zebo and Annett in the early stages of the second half.
Full report to follow...
TIME LINE: 7 minutes - Ireland penalty: Simon Zebo - 3-0; 11 mins - Ireland penalty: Noel Reid - 6-0; 12 mins - Ireland try: Andrew Conway - 11-0; conversion: missed by Noel Reid - 11-0; 14 mins - Scotland penalty: Duncan Weir - 11-3; 17 mins - Ireland try: Noel Reid - 16-3; conversion: Noel Reid - 18-3; 20 mins - Scotland penalty: Duncan Weir - 18-6; 22 mins - Ireland try: Andrew Conway - 23-6; conversion: Noel Reid - 25-6; 28 mins - Scotland try: Robert Harley - 25-11; conversion: Duncan Weir - 25-13; 31 mins - Scotland penalty: Duncan Weir - 25-16; Half-time - Ireland 25 Scotland 16; 46 mins - Ireland try: Simon Zebo - 30-16; conversion: Noel Reid - 32-16; 50 mins - Ireland try: Niall Annett - 37-16; conversion: Noel Reid - 39-16; 61 mins - Scotland try: Stuart McInally - 39-21; conversion: Duncan Weir - 39-23; 63 mins - Ireland try: Andrew Conway - 44-23; conversion: Noel Reid - 46-23; 70 mins - Ireland try: John Cooney - 51-23; conversion: Noel Reid - 53-23; 80+9 mins - Scotland yellow card: Duncan Weir; 80+10 mins - Scotland yellow card: Adam Fedorciow; Full-time - Ireland 53 Scotland 23
IRELAND: Andrew Conway; Andrew Boyle, Eoin Griffin, Nevin Spence, Simon Zebo; Noel Reid, John Cooney; Bryan Cagney, Niall Annett (capt), Martin Moore, David O'Callaghan, Brian Hayes, Dominic Ryan, Brian O'Hara, Paddy Butler.
Replacements used: Jordi Murphy for Hayes (half-time), Robin O'Sullivan for O'Hara (54 mins), David Doyle for Annett (59), James McKinney for Conway (64), Denis Buckley for Cagney (65), Mike Kelliher for Spence, Michael Heaney for Cooney (both 72).
SCOTLAND: Tom Brown; Callum MacBurnie, James Johnstone, Alex Dunbar, Michael Tait; Duncan Weir, Alex Black; Anthony Kent, Alun Walker, Nicky Little, David Denton, Grant Gilchrist, Robert Harley, Callum Stidston-Nott, Stuart McInally (capt).
Replacements used: Michael Fedo for Stidston-Nott (19 mins), Matthew Scott for Dunbar (56), Oliver Grove for Brown (72), Russell Weir for Black, Colin Phillips for Little (both 76), Adam Fedorciow for Walker (80+1), Robert McAlpine for McInally (80+10).
Referee: Garratt Williamson (New Zealand)

Hat trick from Conway, sounds good! Real pity this wasn't shown online/tv.

Roomic Cube

tis on setanta, and tis some game already, new zealand try in the 34th second!!

thebaz

if Noel Reid had been out half for the whole tourament they could have done something , instead of the ultra conservative McKinney

Sid_Justice

I'm not trying to take away from the technical and skill levels of the southern hemisphere clubs but at this age level, their physicality is a big step above the irish/similar. These guys look a lot closer to Magner's/Priemership size than the irish.

Digifriendly

Anyone see this demolition by the Baby Blacks - 62-17! Australia are a decent side with some excellent backs and pace behind the pack but they were literally torn apart by a team that in my opinion would have beaten some fully professional sides of an older age group. NZ outhalf had an almost faultless display.

corny

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I'm not trying to take away from the technical and skill levels of the southern hemisphere clubs but at this age level, their physicality is a big step above the irish/similar. These guys look a lot closer to Magner's/Priemership size than the irish.

You are taking away from their skill levels because their basic skill levels are what sets them apart not their physicality. The Aussies actually had the bigger pack against New Zealand and Ireland have near enough a comparable pack in terms of pack weight too. Catch, kick, pass, tackle, they did everything near enough textbook perfect against Australia. Add in their aggression, belief and desire to play and you have the reason why they dominate.

thebaz

Digifriendly wrote: »

Anyone see this demolition by the Baby Blacks - 62-17! Australia are a decent side with some excellent backs and pace behind the pack but they were literally torn apart by a team that in my opinion would have beaten some fully professional sides of an older age group. NZ outhalf had an almost faultless display.

outstanding - I watch a lot of junior rugby - but that all black team or baby blacks were just awesome - if you look at how Ruddock did well in the senior game , these baby blacks would live would most teams -

brilliant performance , the only thing is its terrible to see New Zealand claim all the best islanders - the balance of the game would be better served if the islands could develop strong national teams themselves

akkadian

Digifriendly wrote: »

Anyone see this demolition by the Baby Blacks - 62-17! Australia are a decent side with some excellent backs and pace behind the pack but they were literally torn apart by a team that in my opinion would have beaten some fully professional sides of an older age group. NZ outhalf had an almost faultless display.

So in summary, the future of Irish rugby is very very bleak ..

profitius

Lads, the polynesians physically mature about 2/3 years faster than caucasians. Its men vs boys literally! Add to that their skill levels being the best easily and theres your answer why they're handing out beatings to every team they play.

Compare their underage teams to the Boks they usually win. The grown-up Boks physically dominate the AB's usually.

akkadian

profitius wrote: »

Lads, the polynesians physically mature about 2/3 years faster than caucasians. Its men vs boys literally! Add to that their skill levels being the best easily and theres your answer why they're handing out beatings to every team they play.

Compare their underage teams to the Boks they usually win. The grown-up Boks physically dominate the AB's usually.

That's a good point. Maori's are the real master race. I knew the Nazis had it wrong!! What a bunch of muppets thet were/are..

Go on the Maoris - much better lookin people than our pale asses too!

wonton

thebaz wrote: »

brilliant performance , the only thing is its terrible to see New Zealand claim all the best islanders - the balance of the game would be better served if the islands could develop strong national teams themselves

i noticed that too, but in fairness the islanders dont really seem to want to play for their countries, isa nacewa for example.

seems a bit like the soccer league of ireland compared to the premiership, the islanders seem to just grow up wanting to play for the alll blacks

akkadian

wonton wrote: »

i noticed that too, but in fairness the islanders dont really seem to want to play for their countries, isa nacewa for example.

seems a bit like the soccer league of ireland compared to the premiership, the islanders seem to just grow up wanting to play for the alll blacks

They were callin them the united nations of New Zealand in one magazine I read years back. The NZ youth system is built around treating the south pacific as their backyard. That's the reality, and you can't blame Tongans and Samoans and Fijians for taking the money they feel they need, and a lucrative playing career. Wouldn't you? I think I would. The seedy part is NZ gives citizenship to these people and to play for the all blacks and in some cases takes it away again, leaving those players feeling like they've been ejected.

Fortunately we don't really have options like that in Ireland. We're good at stopping other people from scoring tries, which is probably why Ireland has faired better than other northern hemisphere teams against southern hemisphere opposition. We play a bit more to our genetic strengths. :cool:

wonton

akkadian wrote: »

They were callin them the united nations of New Zealand in one magazine I read years back. The NZ youth system is built around treating the south pacific as their backyard. That's the reality, and you can't blame Tongans and Samoans and Fijians for taking the money they feel they need, and a lucrative playing career. Wouldn't you? I think I would. The seedy part is NZ gives citizenship to these people and to play for the all blacks and in some cases takes it away again, leaving those players feeling like they've been ejected.

i only just realized it was so many of them though, its abit mad

doug howlett- tongan descent
kevin mealamu- samoan descent
jerome kaino- born in samoa
richard kahui- niuean descent
rokocoko - born in fiji
isa nacewa - fijian descent
mils muliaina- born in somoa
jonah lomu- tongan descent
tana umaga - somoan descent
lifeimi mafi- tongan born
jerry collins - somoan born
filo tiatoa- somoan descent


for some reason i thought all of these players were moari, is rugby not actually popular with the moari?

seems odd doing the haka when no one on the team is moari(i didnt look up everyone though, im just asking)

akkadian

wonton wrote: »

i only just realized it was so many of them though, its abit mad

doug howlett- tongan descent
kevin mealamu- samoan descent
jerome kaino- born in samoa
richard kahui- niuean descent
rokocoko - born in fiji
isa nacewa - fijian descent
mils muliaina- born in somoa
jonah lomu- tongan descent
tana umaga - somoan descent
lifeimi mafi- tongan born
jerry collins - somoan born
filo tiatoa- somoan descent


for some reason i thought all of these players were moari, is rugby not actually popular with the moari?

seems odd doing the haka when no one on the team is moari(i didnt look up everyone though, im just asking)

They're all polynesian, and I'd guess there's not a huge difference between them all culturally. The haka is probably related to them in some way either way. In a way, NZ is the polynesian mother country. You're right though, we shouldn't think NZ, when we say all blacks we should think NZ and polynesia!

anonymous_joe

wonton wrote: »

i only just realized it was so many of them though, its abit mad

doug howlett- tongan descent
kevin mealamu- samoan descent
jerome kaino- born in samoa
richard kahui- niuean descent
rokocoko - born in fiji
isa nacewa - fijian descent
mils muliaina- born in somoa
jonah lomu- tongan descent
tana umaga - somoan descent
lifeimi mafi- tongan born
jerry collins - somoan born
filo tiatoa- somoan descent


for some reason i thought all of these players were moari, is rugby not actually popular with the moari?

seems odd doing the haka when no one on the team is moari(i didnt look up everyone though, im just asking)

Did you see the Maori v Ireland game?

They all love rugby. Except white people. They all play football now. /semi-serious

PhatPiggins

wonton wrote: »

i only just realized it was so many of them though, its abit mad

doug howlett- tongan descent
kevin mealamu- samoan descent
jerome kaino- born in samoa
richard kahui- niuean descent
rokocoko - born in fiji
isa nacewa - fijian descent
mils muliaina- born in somoa
jonah lomu- tongan descent
tana umaga - somoan descent
lifeimi mafi- tongan born
jerry collins - somoan born
filo tiatoa- somoan descent


for some reason i thought all of these players were moari, is rugby not actually popular with the moari?

seems odd doing the haka when no one on the team is moari(i didnt look up everyone though, im just asking)

There are almost no Maori's left in NZ anymore. They've all inter married with the other poly's and the whites. I think there were less then 2000 "pure" Maori's according to the last census.

CatFromHue

wonton wrote: »

i only just realized it was so many of them though, its abit mad

doug howlett- tongan descent
kevin mealamu- samoan descent
jerome kaino- born in samoa
richard kahui- niuean descent
rokocoko - born in fiji
isa nacewa - fijian descent
mils muliaina- born in somoa
jonah lomu- tongan descent
tana umaga - somoan descent
lifeimi mafi- tongan born
jerry collins - somoan born
filo tiatoa- somoan descent


QUOTE]

it would be interesting to see how long each one of the above players has spent living in new zealand.

if you were born in country A but your parents moved to country B when you were very very young, so young that you have no memory of country A at all.

were are you from then?

wonton

CatFromHue wrote: »

wonton wrote: »

i only just realized it was so many of them though, its abit mad

doug howlett- tongan descent
kevin mealamu- samoan descent
jerome kaino- born in samoa
richard kahui- niuean descent
rokocoko - born in fiji
isa nacewa - fijian descent
mils muliaina- born in somoa
jonah lomu- tongan descent
tana umaga - somoan descent
lifeimi mafi- tongan born
jerry collins - somoan born
filo tiatoa- somoan descent


QUOTE]

it would be interesting to see how long each one of the above players has spent living in new zealand.

if you were born in country A but your parents moved to country B when you were very very young, so young that you have no memory of country A at all.

were are you from then?

im from ireland..........wtf?

CatFromHue

i meant are you from country A or B

im from Ireland too....its nice

anonymous_joe

As a sort of extension, consider Keith Gleeson. Despite being born in Dublin (and going to a rugby school here) he's far less Irish than O'Gara or Heaslip, both born abroad.

Where you grow up is pretty crucial, and a lot of those foreign lads playing for the ABs did grow up there, primarily because it's a wealthier country than the islands and thus a lot of Polynesians emigrate to NZ.

wonton

i know, im just surprised none of them seem to be of moari heritage.

thebaz

historically New Zealand have been the best country in rugby - i think its wrong that Samoa, Fiji or Tonga are not allowed to develop serious competitive national teams - its like as if England started claiming all the best Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland players - like they do in cricket -

How weighted does NZ want world rugby to be , they have won the Under 20 WC every year i think - there desire to win the real WC seams to be putting other countries at risk

anonymous_joe

thebaz wrote: »

historically New Zealand have been the best country in rugby - i think its wrong that Samoa, Fiji or Tonga are not allowed to develop serious competitive national teams - its like as if England started claiming all the best Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland players - like they do in cricket -

How weighted does NZ want world rugby to be , they have won the Under 20 WC every year i think - there desire to win the real WC seams to be putting other countries at risk

Actually, what it is really is that NZ are very good at hoarding players, and players are rarely loyal to their ancestral homeland. Jerry Collins says he wants to play for Samoa, well, why didn't he?

Partially, it's because NZ only really contracts AB eligible players.

akkadian

thebaz wrote: »

historically New Zealand have been the best country in rugby - i think its wrong that Samoa, Fiji or Tonga are not allowed to develop serious competitive national teams - its like as if England started claiming all the best Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland players - like they do in cricket -

How weighted does NZ want world rugby to be , they have won the Under 20 WC every year i think - there desire to win the real WC seams to be putting other countries at risk

Maximum respect for the NZ Maori squad